3/4 Tub Fitment / Measurement Info Request

[zerotreedelta]

So...I'm working through a build on my '76 FJ40( Family FJ Build : '76 40 Resto/Frame Off - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/family-fj-build-76-40-resto-frame-off.1241981/), and for various reasons, opted to replace the tub with a fresh 3/4 tub. The tub frame/sides were fair with some rust on the rear quarters, but the floorpans and rockers were pretty rough. Luckily, the firewall is pretty good except for some minor patching on the lower cowl where the fenders mate up. For better or worse, I bit the bullet on a HFS tub - didn't like the aluminium or glass options, and seemed like it a pretty decent tub, albeit you do pay for it.

That said...it arrived a little bit ago, and with the firewall now cleaned up, it seems like the tub is consistently about 1/2" too wide on the front half, making for a bit of a poor mate with the firewall. Neither have any real "give" in them, so it doesn't appear to be a flex/wiggle room type issue. I'm somewhat curious if anyone might be able to snip a few example measurements from their tubs, just to help get this sorted. Easiest would just be the door jamb/rocker lip-to-lip up front where it's welded to the firewall. Lip to lip in the back by the striker on the vertical would be interesting as well, but not sure if there's clearance to measure easily with the seatbacks.

My old tub was 61 1/2" lip to lip at the striker area, but the HFS tub is about 62". The lip-to-lip where the HFS would meet the firewall is 54 1/2, but my hunch is that it should be around 54" to fit up...

Currently working with CCOT/HFS, but also trying to garner what info I can in the meantime...


Lip to lip, firewall joint/weld - new tub:

Lip to lip, near door striker (vertical jamb) - old on left, new on right:

Set flush on one side:

Not so flush on the other:

 

[SteveH]

I see no real solution than to cut and section the floor inside the rocker (on one side or both) and redirect the rocker panel inward to correctly meet the firewall section. You would re-weld the floor after that. Have you checked the fit of your hard top (if you have one) over the tub lips (top edge of the tub)?

After my fender fitment nightmare, you may need to think way outside the box to pull this off. I wrote a Toyota Trails article several years back on my fender mess and how I worked around all the fitment issues.

 

[zerotreedelta]

Yeah...that was my unfortunate thoughts as well - there's no give, so you'd have to section out the floor pan ahead of the rear step and pull out a 1/4" wedge on each side. I haven't done the measurements to see if both sides are off, or if one side is angled differently (to know if you have to section both sides, or if it's just one).

I'm working with CCOT currently to see what they say...curious if the tubs are consistently wrong/off, or if this is an, er, "Friday Afternoon" fabrication version. Hopefully it's a borked tub - for the price, this is a pretty odd fitment issue to have to address.

I haven't tried the top just yet - was looking to get the firewall close, then work to square everything up with the hardtop, windshield, and doors before fully welding it back together. I'm guessing the top has enough "splay" in it that it'd sit down, and the rear of the tub seems to be closer dimensionally, so in theory the rear door opening should be square/correct.

I did find a few old threads that have tub dimensions, but none that have any measurements ahead of the tub - they all tend to stop at the B-pillar. The dimensions do seem to be closer to my old/factory tub, though, for what's out there.

 

[Jetlander]

My vote is that for the money those HFS tubs cost, they should damn near bolt themselves in place. Personally I wouldn’t mess with any cutting or fabricating to make it fit. Send it back to CCOT and have them send you a new, correct one. If I had a steel tub I’d be more then happy to give measurements, but mine’s an Aqualu. Just my 2¢...

 

[zerotreedelta]

My vote is that for the money those HFS tubs cost, they should damn near bolt themselves in place. Personally I wouldn’t mess with any cutting or fabricating to make it fit. Send it back to CCOT and have them send you a new, correct one. If I had a steel tub I’d be more then happy to give measurements, but mine’s an Aqualu. Just my 2¢...

Totally agree, hoping CCOT handles things and makes it right - they're calling back tomorrow. The main point to getting the 3/4 through them was to avoid major fitment issues.

The only way I'd keep it and cut it is if they take it down to the price of the 1/2 tub at least (ie, treat it like the half tub since the rockers/pans are off) - not going to cut things up without some compensation/adjustment for the SNAFU. Not afraid to run the welder, but only if there's some give for the hassle.

Super curious what they find for measurements on other tubs there...should know more tomorrow.

 

[GatorPlater]

Does anyone on here have some measurements from their own 76 Tubs? it would be interesting as well and a confirmation of your tub size against other 76 trucks vs what CCOT sent you. seems pretty crazy that as long as they have been around and as many tubs and panels that they sell, that what they sent you is that far off...

 

[zerotreedelta]

Does anyone on here have some measurements from their own 76 Tubs? it would be interesting as well and a confirmation of your tub size against other 76 trucks vs what CCOT sent you. seems pretty crazy that as long as they have been around and as many tubs and panels that they sell, that what they sent you is that far off...

I concur...that was partly my ask to the community here to help have my ducks in a row as I get this sorted. Knowing what others have for a span between the rocker jambs by the firewall would definitely help. My spidey sense is that it should be 54" lip to lip where it meets the firewall, but this tub is 54.5.

And agreed, seems like it might just be a botched tub, as others would bark with this kind of fitment to deal with...and this is their bread and butter.

 

[Michael Hanson]

Hi, I agree,their price is high, so their fitment should be exceptional. Mike

 

[Curtice]

Could the lower side of the cowl on the non-flush side be bent in at all, from a wreck or anything? I only think that cause mine was. I had to pull it outward quite a bit to get it flush. (I didn’t do a 3/4 tub though, I did a half tub and new floor and new rockers...yeah the hard way...so I worked the fitment until it all worked)

 

[zerotreedelta]

We're the original owners, no accident history. Firewall is straight other than the typical rust on the very lower wedges.

The offset is only shifted to one side of the firewall to show the width difference a bit better...it may be split across both sides. I haven't set up a jig to see if one side or the other of the tub is off, still waiting to hear back from CCOT.

 

[Curtice]

Cool. Was just a thought. I dealt with all kinds of fitment issues, but I figured it was a get what you pay for when you buy SA parts. I agree if I would have paid for the CCOT tub, I’d expect perfection. Good luck.

 

[1MOA]

The CCOT tubs are SA tubs correct? just supposedly better ones.?

 

[zerotreedelta]

I want to say they're from Costa Rica vs Colombia, but not 100% there.

So, it does seem like this tub is indeed about 1/2 off (too wide) at the firewall - they measured a few assembled 40s as well as another 3/4 tub there and they're more like 54" vs my 54 1/2". More to work out next week...unfortunate snafu, but seems like it'll get sorted out. Luckily, I'm ahead of schedule generally with a window before weather will cooperate for paint, but it'll make for some interesting logistics if it needs a freight return.

 

[bertsulli]

@zerotreedelta Do you have any updates on how CCOT is going to handle this? I am considering going the HFS tub route myself.

 

[zerotreedelta]

We were looking to see if the tub could be reworked here as a possible option to avoid re-shipping it, but it seems like the rear opening is also off (which may explain the error up front as well). We're currently working through what it'll take to get a new tub here, should have that sorted out this week. There was a bit of back and forth first with the fabricators, and then the TX ice storm hit which made for additional delays. It's not time-critical here, so I didn't push too agressively on the schedule as I knew that area had its hands full from the weather impacts.

It does just seem like it somehow got off in fabrication and slipped through...given the headaches, I'm guessing they'll add a few more QC steps after this. This is the rear opening - the driver's side hardtop panel sits correctly, but the passenger side is off...so it seems like the whole tub got wonky on that side:

 

[zerotreedelta]

Bump to the top - things are going a bit snarlier than desired on getting this resolved.

If anyone out there has their hardtop off, I'd love to hear what your measurements are at the B-pillar. My factory tub is 63 1/2 to the outside of that flat nub, and 62 between the lip there. I know I can make the firewall meet up, but still a bit worried on that B pillar and how it'll play with the doors/hardtop.

Long story on where to go from here...will share more early next week.

 

[brianrb100]

Bump to the top - things are going a bit snarlier than desired on getting this resolved.

If anyone out there has their hardtop off, I'd love to hear what your measurements are at the B-pillar. My factory tub is 63 1/2 to the outside of that flat nub, and 62 between the lip there. I know I can make the firewall meet up, but still a bit worried on that B pillar and how it'll play with the doors/hardtop.

Long story on where to go from here...will share more early next week.

View attachment 2612005

I measured mine. Where your factory tub has 63.5", I'm at 63.63". Where are you measuring to with the 62.25" dimension? I don't think the 1/16" difference there is going to hurt you when the top goes on.

Keep in mind my tub has been messed with. I'm considering the same HFS tub, so I'm anxious to see how you resolve it. Did you say the variation at the cowl has been solved?

 

[zerotreedelta]

That's about what I expected to see - seems like OEM is generally around that 63 1/2" - 63 5/8", but the HFS tub is measuring wider at 64", and that 1/2" carried forward to the firewall. The 62 1/4" measurement was lip-to-lip back at the seam in the rail where it transitions to the radius'd part, there's a joint there for a consistent measurement spot. From what I can tell, the "spar" at the B-pillar on the HFS tub was made 1/2 too wide, and it carried forward to the firewall, as the back door opening is correct, with the error slowly increasing from the rear to the B pillar and firewall.

As far as the firewall mating/fitment goes, I am able to jig the front with fairly strong pulling in the trans tunnel to get it down to the correct dimension, but it'll mean pie-cutting the floor pan in two spots to get it to lay flat - pulling in the necessary 1/2" obviously results in fairly substantial buckling/oil-canning of the floorpans as they're all tied in around all edges.

What I don't know at this point is just how much that 1/2" discrepancy at the B-pillar will impact door fitment, as the hardtop will bring the hardtop sides back to "stock" by the top by 1/4" from the rail to the top on each side...so in theory, the upper rail of the door is going to be proud of where it should be at the top. The challenge is that I won't know what the snowball effect is there until the firewall is mated up, and at that point the ship has sailed...

I'm still pressing for a better resolution, but here's the *long* story...

• Raised the issue to the shop crew back in early Feb when I started to mate it to the firewall
• Measurements there tended to confirm that my tub is 1/2" wide from the b-pillar to the firewall - others measured more as expected
• They asked about my taking on the metalwork to remediate (vs dealing with return freight) - I preferred a replacement due to other unknown variations like the B-pillar vs just the firewall
• Shop crew generally agreed, but needed to raise to the owner and they were out for the week
• Texas ice storm then delayed things, but I was cooperative/understanding - s-chtuff happens that's out of our control
• The plan was to measure some inventory on Saturday to confirm dimensions on a replacement before shipping (a good idea), but that got halted/stopped
• Owner overruled the shop crew, with a hard refusal to send a replacement -- they will give a refund, but shipping a replacement tub with known better dimensions is not an option at this point for some odd reason
• I countered/offered keeping the tub but pricing it at the cost of a 1/2 tub + the standalone floor pan + the rocker panels, and taking on the known metalwork - got a nope, refund only
• I then offered keeping the tub and getting a comp' for what they'd lose on shipping costs by doing a refund (they'd lose original freight + return freight), got a nope
• Currently at a stalemate...

Which all leaves me in a bit of a pickle - FJ is pulled apart for a 3/4 tub, and doing a refund with no replacement pushes my schedules out yet further...and the other South Am' steel tubs are generally known to be ill-fitting (but cheaper of course). I'd rather not go with alum' or glass based on my needs, so not a lot of great alternatives, and they currently won't ship a replacement from HFS.

I tried calling the shop/office today, but the person I've been working with was away in the warehouse, so I'll be digging back yet again on Monday. Interestingly enough, as I was rolling around on the creeper to figure out which body mounts lined up and which don't, I noticed this writing on the underside of the tub on the spar where the b-pillar is. Conveniently, I do actually know Spanish, and I do know what "malo" translates to (hint: "bad") That's not exactly a great sign, especially as that's exactly where the dimensions are off...and tends to confirm what I'm finding.

I'll be very curious what they say to this new info - while the shop/floor guys have been great through this, the owner, frankly, has not. Based on his "interesting" responses compared to his teams', he clearly thinks I'm either clueless and incompetent at metalwork and the tub is actually correct, or that I'm trying to pull something over on him or "just being difficult" for some reason.

Honestly, I do still feel like this is an outlier / "factory second" type tub that got shipped, and I do find the boots-on-the-ground guys there quite understanding, but the owner is very much the problem at this point with his general refusal to accept that there's a quality control issue/faulty product. If this was a bottom-basement tub, I'd understand...but for their pricepoint and niche, this type of oddity can't be typical for their tubs...but I digress.

Thanks for those that gave some measurements - so far, they all tend to align:
* my stock => ~63 1/2
* Brian's stock => ~63 5/8
* aqualu => ~63 5/8

 

[brianrb100]

That's a BS response from the owner. A problem between the factory and CCOT should not be your problem, especially at this price tag. They should have a quality document with the factory and the factory needs to sign off prior to shipment.

I'm having second thoughts about buying one now. My plan was to fly to Texas and verify dimensions before I buy. I'll at least do that if I buy one.

 

[Mr. Green]

I don’t have a 76, mines a 74 but I’m going the panel piece route (RS) to get a steel tub for slightly less than an aqaulu. I should get mine back from blaster tomorrow if any measurements would help since it’s a good cowl but metal termites holding hands in the back. might I suggest getting price from competent body shop to do what you need then use that as leverage? Useful professional Estimate. Cats out of the bag now anyway... they’ll try to limit their losses no matter what.
sucky news to find out regardless.