3/4 Tub Fitment / Measurement Info Request (1 Viewer)

[1MOA]

For almost 12,000 for a 3/4 tub they should offer better support than what they showed you

 

[zerotreedelta]

It'll be interesting to see what Monday brings - I honestly thought they'd handle things better based on the early conversations. Super duper odd, doesn't make much sense from a customer-service perspective on the owner's part...and it's only gotten worse as the conversation has progressed.

I know how to run a welder and a plasma cutter...my spidey sense says that this is going to end up being one of those "life lessons" you pay for. Could be worse in the grand scheme, but definitely expected better.

The real kicker is that while I was tied up in this jazz (and they were still saying they'd send a replacement), I missed out on a FJ in western WI with a serviceable tub that was on the insurance auctions from an engine fire...such is life.

 

[Jetlander]

I’m assuming you used either a debit or credit card to make payment on the tub. If so, I wouldn’t do a damn thing to it. CCOT has to make this right by replacing it...at their cost. If the owner refuses, then play hardball and call the card company to initiate a claim for a fraudulent charge against CCOT. All you need to do is tell the owner of CCOT that you will be taking legal actions and leave it at that. From this point forward I wouldn’t have any verbal conversations with anyone about the tub, email only so there is good documentation.

You ordered and paid for a very specific product (a tub made for your year specific FJ40). CCOT agreed to send you that product for X amount of dollars. However, they sent you a product which is NOT what you ordered. Period. Their error is not your problem. You shouldn’t have to eat the shipping...nothing. File the claim, provide the card company with all the details (order documents, payment receipt, photos, emails, etc.). They will initiate an investigation and if they find the vendor did not in fact deliver what was promised, they will go after CCOT for the money.

I dealt with something similar in the past. I went around in circles with a company for weeks. Finally, I called my Credit Card company which I used to make payment and filed a fraud charge against the vendor. Provided photos, order docs, etc. Guess what... the company owner called me the day after he was notified by the CC company of the investigation, and he made me whole and asked me to call off the fraud claim.

You shouldn’t eat any of this. This is 100% their mistake, and they are responsible for any costs to fix it. To include shipping. This is just my 2¢, but thought I’d share my experience. Put the burden on CCOT and the credit card company to duke it out. Guaranteed that the CC company has better lawyers.

 

[zerotreedelta]

To be clear/transparent, as mentioned in the earlier post, CCOT has at least offered a full refund, but no option for a return tub from them to replace it. Oddly enough, this has gone on long enough that I'm actually past the 60 day window for credit card claims, but given CCOT will at least give a refund, that seems somewhat moot.

My current take, given that finding (decent) steel tubs is not easy:

• Ideal: ship this one back, and get a replacement HFS tub shipped that has the correct dimensions
  • This is where it was heading back in Feb, but no longer an option for some very strange reason
• Secondary : keep this tub, with a corresponding discount/comp for having to address the demonstrated issues
  • It seemed like shipping/freight was the concern...but this has also been blocked/denied
• Last: it's a tossup between
  • taking the refund and the gamble on finding another tubs - they'll be cheaper, but have similar issues...and it'll push timelines out even more
  • ...or sucking it up and fixing this one and taking the $$$ hit and moving on

For some reason, the owner at CCOT has refused on (1) and (2), leaving me to decide on the two options under (3), neither of which are great options at this point.

I'm tossing on the full hardtop this weekend to get a feel for what impact the error has on the doors going up the B-pillar, and then will see what they have to say about the rather humorous "malo" markings on Monday...

 

[brianrb100]

To be clear/transparent, as mentioned in the earlier post, CCOT has at least offered a full refund, but no option for a return tub from them to replace it. Oddly enough, this has gone on long enough that I'm actually past the 60 day window for credit card claims, but given CCOT will at least give a refund, that seems somewhat moot.

My current take, given that finding (decent) steel tubs is not easy:

• Ideal: ship this one back, and get a replacement HFS tub shipped that has the correct dimensions
  • This is where it was heading back in Feb, but no longer an option for some very strange reason
• Secondary : keep this tub, with a corresponding discount/comp for having to address the demonstrated issues
  • It seemed like shipping/freight was the concern...but this has also been blocked/denied
• Last: it's a tossup between
  • taking the refund and the gamble on finding another tubs - they'll be cheaper, but have similar issues...and it'll push timelines out even more
  • ...or sucking it up and fixing this one and taking the $$$ hit and moving on

For some reason, the owner at CCOT has refused on (1) and (2), leaving me to decide on the two options under (3), neither of which are great options at this point.

I'm tossing on the full hardtop this weekend to get a feel for what impact the error has on the doors going up the B-pillar, and then will see what they have to say about the rather humorous "malo" markings on Monday...

Any update?

 

[zerotreedelta]

I took some time over the weekend to install the full hardtop and set the firewall in place with clamps to test the front doors fitment for issues at the B-Pillar. With the floor pan jigged/pulled in to correctly the firewall, I could get enough door adjustment to get a decent door line on the B-pillar, so I can at least work with that. (If the doors didn't meet the hardtop, not much one can do to fix it...the floors are workable, the B-pillar...isn't)

I need to move forward, as I've got parts that are blasted/raw-steel waiting. I've had enough delays as it is, so I'll be keeping the tub and I'll be cutting the floor pans and fixing the body mounts that are off, for better or worse...I frankly don't have the luxury of time to ship it back and track down another tub from another vendor at this point.

I gave the info above to the shop manager, who found the "malo" markings quite interesting - but it's 100% in CCOT's hands a this point. I told them I can make it work, but the tub markings further support my case that it's a faulty/factory-second kind of tub, and it's on them to make things right at this point. I reiterated that both the sum-of-parts or the shipping-loss options should be more than fair for all parties, but it's in their hands...I may get nothing in compensation, or they might do the right thing and give me the sum-of-parts. Either way, I'm moving on, and the chips will fall where they may. I'll share the final result, but at this point I haven't heard back.

 

[brianrb100]

I took some time over the weekend to install the full hardtop and set the firewall in place with clamps to test the front doors fitment for issues at the B-Pillar. With the floor pan jigged/pulled in to correctly the firewall, I could get enough door adjustment to get a decent door line on the B-pillar, so I can at least work with that. (If the doors didn't meet the hardtop, not much one can do to fix it...the floors are workable, the B-pillar...isn't)

I need to move forward, as I've got parts that are blasted/raw-steel waiting. I've had enough delays as it is, so I'll be keeping the tub and I'll be cutting the floor pans and fixing the body mounts that are off, for better or worse...I frankly don't have the luxury of time to ship it back and track down another tub from another vendor at this point.

I gave the info above to the shop manager, who found the "malo" markings quite interesting - but it's 100% in CCOT's hands a this point. I told them I can make it work, but the tub markings further support my case that it's a faulty/factory-second kind of tub, and it's on them to make things right at this point. I reiterated that both the sum-of-parts or the shipping-loss options should be more than fair for all parties, but it's in their hands...I may get nothing in compensation, or they might do the right thing and give me the sum-of-parts. Either way, I'm moving on, and the chips will fall where they may. I'll share the final result, but at this point I haven't heard back.

Aside from this, how is the rest of the workmanship? Do you really think this is an anomaly? They owe you something for sure.

Did you install the fiberglass top as well? No issues?

 

[zerotreedelta]

The glass top is on, there's enough adjustment in the side panels to bring the 1/2 back in by the top, and it seems split on both sides, so the 1/4 each seems to be adjustable out via the door hinges and a bit of flexing/tweaking of the doors. I put a laser sight down it, and using a turnbuckle seemed to bring in both rockers evenly as well...so once it's tacked in, I should be able to work the buckling back out of the floor.

The sheet metal and the stamping seems generally decent. The body mount holes/brackets seem a bit off, not sure if that's typical or not. The angle of the flange by the striker on the B-pillar is also off a bit - I'm not sure if it'll effect the weatherstrip much, but might look into tapering it a bit to get rid of the transition lip, as I believe there's metal there to work with.

Either way, looking forward to moving ahead - nice to get back to progress vs being stalled...looking more like an FJ.

 

[brianrb100]

I hope it all works out for you. Now I'm on the fence about one of their tubs. It'll be CCOT or Aqualu. I don't think I trust Land Cruiser Heaven.

 

[zerotreedelta]

Yeah, it's a pickle - the other steel options seem pretty variable/questionable, and alu' or glass have their pros/cons as well. The HFS tub is generally decent, but for the price, the errors in mine are what I'd call "amateur hour", which is very...strange.

Finally got a reply - the owner never stepped up, despite a pile of information that this tub was a bit of a lemon - they ended up giving me a credit for $300 for my troubles, despite that they'd be on the hook to lose at least $1100 shipping it back.

The guys on the floor mean well, but the owner is off in lala-land...that type of support for what is essentially a "premium product" is pretty disappointing. Needless to say, I won't be patronizing their business any further at this point for any other FJ products. I'll make it work, it's just metal - but it's far from what you'd expect to receive IMHO, and how they treat their customers speaks volumes. I'll probably throw together a video to show the fitment quirks as I mount it up - at least the next guy will know what they're getting.

 

[Jetlander]

Wow! $300... What an absolute insult. CCOT should be embarrassed for even suggesting such a pathetically low number. I hope they see this thread and I hope the owner understands as a collective group, WE pay his salary.

Good to know for my future purchases.

 

[brianrb100]

I was thinking Classic Cruisers in Colorado was offering tubs. I contacted them and thought the price was close to CCOT, but I can't find the message. They may very well buy them from CCOT.

I agree with @Jetlander . I'll be rethinking purchases from CCOT.

 

[zerotreedelta]

As always, there's two sides to any story - but I'm definitely confused by the owner's response, it just doesn't make much sense from a business perspective...ESPECIALLY in such a small/niche market as FJ40s. I've tried to be pretty pragmatic and factual throughout, both with them and on here --- but apparently it didn't register.

The dimensions were demonstrated to be off, with suspect markings from the fabricators on the tub in the area where it was off. Those same measurements were crosschecked against other stock tubs, as well as their competitor (Aqualu).

And then the refusal to send a replacement tub on the notion of "it might just have the same issues" sends some pretty high red flags on QC. If you can't have good enough faith to send a replacement product to known/supplied dimensions, that doesn't give a great signal about their confidence in their own product.

Past that, he was ready and willing to work through a return and eat the shipping in both directions, which would've been $1100 at a minimum as it was originally $550 here to a terminal -- likely closer to $1250 or so as the return would've been residential pickup at this point. So, even if he didn't believe me and thought I was some cluesless goober that didn't know metalwork, why take the stance on poor customer service/reputation by offering $300 to cover the rework and having to cut floorpans on a *new* tub when he was already set to lose the $1100+?

It just doesn't make sense, at all. Either the product isn't what it used to be and lacks QC, or they're lacking integrity in supporting what they sell, or both...and neither is a good look.

 

[brianrb100]

As always, there's two sides to any story - but I'm definitely confused by the owner's response, it just doesn't make much sense from a business perspective...ESPECIALLY in such a small/niche market as FJ40s. I've tried to be pretty pragmatic and factual throughout, both with them and on here --- but apparently it didn't register.

The dimensions were demonstrated to be off, with suspect markings from the fabricators on the tub in the area where it was off. Those same measurements were crosschecked against other stock tubs, as well as their competitor (Aqualu).

And then the refusal to send a replacement tub on the notion of "it might just have the same issues" sends some pretty high red flags on QC. If you can't have good enough faith to send a replacement product to known/supplied dimensions, that doesn't give a great signal about their confidence in their own product.

Past that, he was ready and willing to work through a return and eat the shipping in both directions, which would've been $1100 at a minimum as it was originally $550 here to a terminal -- likely closer to $1250 or so as the return would've been residential pickup at this point. So, even if he didn't believe me and thought I was some cluesless goober that didn't know metalwork, why take the stance on poor customer service/reputation by offering $300 to cover the rework and having to cut floorpans on a *new* tub when he was already set to lose the $1100+?

It just doesn't make sense, at all. Either the product isn't what it used to be and lacks QC, or they're lacking integrity in supporting what they sell, or both...and neither is a good look.

They should have an outgoing QA plan with the factory in South America. The company I work for purchases goods from China and we had a quality issue some years back. We fixed it and received a new order from the same customer, but they wanted us to be on site inspecting all the goods as they arrived. I made they point that if they get all the way to the final destination and have problems, we've lost. So I went to China and worked out an outgoing inspection plan and pass/fail criteria. Haven't had an issue since.

I'd also like to know what financial terms they have with the factory. I wouldn't think it would be a problem for them to replace the tub because CCOT seems to be purchasing a lot from them. My suspicion is the factory demands payment prior to shipment and CCOT would be left footing the bill for their problem. That doesn't excuse CCOT not making it right.

I wish I had plans for the FJ40 tubs because I know I could find a supplier in China to make them. They have huge amounts of automotive manufacturing.

 

[zerotreedelta]

Agreed - a simple spot-check jig on both sides (both SA and CCOT) would be simple enough to have, and would give some firm QC that things are a-ok before a tub moves on down the road, both from SA=>CCOT, and CCOT=>customer.

It does seem like there must've been something with the original fabricators where CCOT was left footing it, but that (should've been) their problem, not mine.

 

[FJ404345]

Spot-check okay, but if a tube with "Malo" written on there can leave the SA shop there are other organisational issues.

They must have noticed it at least after it had left and probably hushed up

 

[SteveH]

Agreed - a simple spot-check jig on both sides (both SA and CCOT) would be simple enough to have, and would give some firm QC that things are a-ok before a tub moves on down the road, both from SA=>CCOT, and CCOT=>customer.

I argued this years ago with my PACOL FJ40 fenders that were off by 1/2" to 1". By the time you made them fit, you should have fabbed your own. I got the same 'let's re-order and hope for a better batch' speech.

You can buy Chinese fenders and hoods for many vehicles that fit perfectly for $69 (admittedly much higher volume) - but somehow it's ok that $500 patch panels and multi-thousand dollar bodies for Land Cruisers aren't even close? The only way to combat this is to boycott this junk and spread the word.

 

[steveola]

Agreed - a simple spot-check jig on both sides (both SA and CCOT) would be simple enough to have, and would give some firm QC that things are a-ok before a tub moves on down the road, both from SA=>CCOT, and CCOT=>customer.

I argued this years ago with my PACOL FJ40 fenders that were off by 1/2" to 1". By the time you made them fit, you should have fabbed your own. I got the same 'let's re-order and hope for a better batch' speech.

You can buy Chinese fenders and hoods for many vehicles that fit perfectly for $69 (admittedly much higher volume) - but somehow it's ok that $500 patch panels and multi-thousand dollar bodies for Land Cruisers aren't even close? The only way to combat this is to boycott this junk and spread the word.

You make a very valid point. Why is it, apart from volume sales that you can get body parts for almost everything except a Land Cruiser at a great price that fit perfectly but seems no matter what you get for a 40 has to be custom fit, if it fits at all and then you get issues like this that you spend a small fortune for a part that obviously is incorrect and the manufacturer won’t stand behind it. I have purchased a lot of parts from CCOT, and they have been great except for crazy long lead times, bit I may rethink anymore big dollar purchases. Hopefully, they see this and address it.

 

[Michael Hanson]

Hi, I’m sure there are good shops in central and South America . That being said their main goal of most shops is just get the truck back on the road. Not sure this not the same in the states. I would not buy a tub from anywhere down south without measuring the tub and looking at it’s welds first. Mike

 

[KY Longhunter]

Curious to know what you did. I would have taken the refund and reworked the tub. I’m not sure what you paid for it, but website shows $11,000 .

I bought a 3/4 tub from Costa Rica years ago with fitment issues. Tub was made by the guy who used to make all the tubs for CCOT. He went MIA years ago. I would dare to bet he’s still at it and likely built your CCOT tub.