2H and EDIC Questions HELP! (1 Viewer)

[DogDigger]

Best to ignore my verbal diarrhea on occasions DD. (It's a kiwi thing. ..... Just like my compatriot - Dougal, I also like to engage in baiting from time to time.)

I like things to be stock but I must admit that the "superglow" preheat system the factory installed on your truck does give trouble and it was an early step towards treating landcruiser owners as "impatient dummies". .... In other words, Toyota tried to speed up the preheating process, and tried also to take the control of it away from the person sitting in the driver's seat (by making its workings automatic).

So in your shoes I'm not sure which way I'd go either. (Stock or modified.)

Firstly
Looking at my info here I see your EDIC relay (aka Fuel Control Relay) should be part number 28590-57010. (Have a look and see if you find this number on it.)

This relay was apparently used on the following Aug 1980 to June 1985 12 volt landcruisers:
BJ40, BJ42, HJ47 (B, 3B and 2H engines)

(and also found on an Aug 80 to April 82 2B-powered 12 volt BB10 Coaster)

In your pm you asked about whether the relay from a HJ60 would work.... Well it appears that relay is 28590-56090 (assuming its a 12V cruiser) so, because the part number is different, I doubt it.

Secondly
That wire to the oil switch (that you measure 5V on) gets "shorted to earth" whenever your oil pressure drops below around 3-5 psi. In other words, your oil switch opens on rising pressure and closes on falling pressure.
(So if your engine loses oil pressure during a journey, that wire will become earthed and cause your EDIC system to stop your engine.)

Thirdly
Your EDIC relay is different to my earlier one and I've kept only info relating to mine. So I'm afraid I'm not much help in diagnosing whether yours is faulty or not or what each component in yours does.

If it looks fine, perhaps you should take a peak inside your EDIC gearhousing. At the top there you'll find electrical contacts. Grease or other muck sometimes gets in the way to stop them operating correctly.

It is these contacts that tell the relay when the arm has reached the "set point" dictated by the conditions (and thereby stop further power getting fed to the motor that would otherwise make it turn too far).

By "set point" I mean these three positions:

[*]Fuel shut-off (aka "stop")
[*]Engine run
[*]Overinject (aka "start")
Hope this helps

The EDIC relay model number you provided was correct. I heard from another thread that you can't get them anymore (one site quoted $445 and I didn't think that anyone in their right mind would buy that) but after looking at mine, I don't think it would be too hard to make one if you could find the schematics but I think mine's fine. I never saw the armeture on the exposed relay
I disconnected the EDIC arm and wanted to remove the motor. One bolt came out just fine but the other wasn't cooperating and I didn't want to snap it. I got the 2H manual now (thankyou manual threads) and in my spare time I'll read up as much as I can about the entire EDIC system. Thanks again
DD

PS: The attached pic shows the relay that never engages in red (I presume this is for when the oil pressure drops too low) and one of the other relays in blue engages when the key is turned
I don't know if this means anything to anyone but it might help in troubleshooting it. The pic is from another thread but it's the same controller (too dark to take a pic)

 

[lostmarbles]

Looking more closely at my stuff I see I've lied DD. I do still have some stuff on this computer relating to your EDIC system. (I thought I purged it all )

I've just discovered these two pics:





And I made them when I was trying to help Theo/tmarx in this BJ42 thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...ic-fuel-control-relay-woes-please-help-2.html

So it might be useful to read that thread to see how the pics can be used. (As I recall we learnt what those "unknown wires" were in his thread too.)

But I think the best step now would be to see if your EDIC motor runs when you apply 12V to its M - terminal. (Note that the motor must be earthed for it to run.)

You should see the arm going back and forth continuously for as long as the power is applied.

That'll at least show you that you have a good EDIC motor and that the fault lies simply in the control of it.

 

[lostmarbles]

But I now have an FSM that I didn't have when I was helping Theo before.

These pics (in my next 3 posts) from it apply to Theo's BJ42, and if your system has the same part numbers, they should apply to yours as well:

 

[lostmarbles]

 

[lostmarbles]

Hope they're useful.

(They come from the Aug 1980 B-series Engine FSM 36047.)



Edit:
I've just run a check and while you share same the EDIC relay (28590-57010) with Theo's BJ42, you apparently have a different Fuel control Motor (28571-56140 compared to 28571-56120).

I wonder why?

So this leaves me a little unsure now .. as to whether the same tests apply to your system.... but I doubt they can vary much...

Also, from Theo's thread it appears I may have had a 28590-57010 FCR lying around here back then. I know I got rid of the FCM but perhaps I still have this FCR? If so, and if you're desperate, I might even let you buy it! (But I'd have to see if I can find it first.)

 

[DogDigger]

Hope they're useful.

(They come from the Aug 1980 B-series Engine FSM 36047.)



Edit:
I've just run a check and while you share same the EDIC relay (28590-57010) with Theo's BJ42, you apparently have a different Fuel control Motor (28571-56140 compared to 28571-56120).

I wonder why?

So this leaves me a little unsure now .. as to whether the same tests apply to your system.... but I doubt they can vary much...

Also, from Theo's thread it appears I may have had a 28590-57010 FCR lying around here back then. I know I got rid of the FCM but perhaps I still have this FCR? If so, and if you're desperate, I might even let you buy it! (But I'd have to see if I can find it first.)

Thanks so much. I now know that the motor isn't stuffed. I think the fuse link that goes from the batterie to the B terminal is broken. Do you know where that possibly is located?

 

[DogDigger]

It is these contacts that tell the relay when the arm has reached the "set point" dictated by the conditions (and thereby stop further power getting fed to the motor that would otherwise make it turn too far).

By "set point" I mean these three positions:

[*]Fuel shut-off (aka "stop")
[*]Engine run
[*]Overinject (aka "start")
Hope this helps

How does the motor stop when it reaches the set point? Does the wiper keep moving untill it reaches the set point? Also, is it just 12v going to that?
I think the offending problem is one of two things. firstly, the fuse described the post about an secondly; one of the relays. Are the just standard SPDT relays?

 

[lostmarbles]

Thanks so much. I now know that the motor isn't stuffed. I think the fuse link that goes from the batterie to the B terminal is broken. Do you know where that possibly is located?.....

Your fusible links should be close to your battery's + Ve terminal.

Here are mine:





But be warned .... Fusible links are a common item for previous owners to bastardise (or even do away with altogether).

How does the motor stop when it reaches the set point? Does the wiper keep moving untill it reaches the set point? Also, is it just 12v going to that?
I think the offending problem is one of two things. firstly, the fuse described the post about an secondly; one of the relays. Are the just standard SPDT relays?

Those moving/fixed electrical contacts on the top of your FCM gearbox tell your FCR when your FCM arm has reached the "set point" (overinject, run, or stop) determined by your key position (start, run, or off).

So, looking at that test I devised in post 22 .... When your arm reaches the over-inject (OI) position, the OI pin on the FCM lead will no longer have "continuity to earth".

This FCM lead connects to the FCR. So when your key is placed in "start", it is the above "open-circuit to earth on the OI pin" that tells the FCR to stop sending further juice to the FCM. (So the motor stops there instead of carrying on past that position.)

Clear as mud?

 

[DogDigger]

Your fusible links should be close to your battery's + Ve terminal.

Here are mine:

But be warned .... Fusible links are a common item for previous owners to bastardise (or even do away with altogether).

Those moving/fixed electrical contacts on the top of your FCM gearbox tell your FCR when your FCM arm has reached the "set point" (overinject, run, or stop) determined by your key position (start, run, or off).

So, looking at that test I devised in post 22 .... When your arm reaches the over-inject (OI) position, the OI pin on the FCM lead will no longer have "continuity to earth".

This FCM lead connects to the FCR. So when your key is placed in "start", it is the above "open-circuit to earth on the OI pin" that tells the FCR to stop sending further juice to the FCM. (So the motor stops there instead of carrying on past that position.)

Clear as mud?

the B terminal doesn't have any voltage to begin with. I'll try tomorrow with a jumper lead.

 

[lostmarbles]

Good morning DD.

I was thinking the other day about why your wagon has the same FCR as a BJ42 yet has a different FCM. And I decided it'll likely be because your injector pump is on the wrong side of your engine (compared to any B-series engine).

We have our inlet manifold and injector pump on the left while I understand you have them on the right.

So your FCM set-positions will sort-of be the mirror image of ours.

So I think you should be able to use those B-series engine EDIC-check instructions I posted ... provided you bear this in mind.

That WL (white with blue stripe) wire that goes to your FCRs B-pin should have power ALL the time, regardless of key-position, according to all the wiring diagrams I've looked at.

So if its got no power that's certainly going to explain why your EDIC system doesn't work.

Now .... I feel I should explain that while all the Toyota wiring diagrams I've seen for our cruisers tend to show THREE fusible links, I've only ever managed to find TWO on mine. So exactly where that WL wire comes from (ie. from the 3rd fusible link) is a bit of a mystery to me.

Have you found any fusible links at all there?

Do you have a hanging wire near your battery's +Ve terminal that's not connected to anything? (Of course that mystery WL wire could instead originate from the ignition switch with the 3rd fusible link hidden somewhere under the dash )

Any photos you may be able to provide of that fusible link area would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DogDigger]

Good morning DD.

I was thinking the other day about why your wagon has the same FCR as a BJ42 yet has a different FCM. And I decided it'll likely be because your injector pump is on the wrong side of your engine (compared to any B-series engine).

We have our inlet manifold and injector pump on the left while I understand you have them on the right.

So your FCM set-positions will sort-of be the mirror image of ours.

So I think you should be able to use those B-series engine EDIC-check instructions I posted ... provided you bear this in mind.

That WL (white with blue stripe) wire that goes to your FCRs B-pin should have power ALL the time, regardless of key-position, according to all the wiring diagrams I've looked at.

So if its got no power that's certainly going to explain why your EDIC system doesn't work.

Now .... I feel I should explain that while all the Toyota wiring diagrams I've seen for our cruisers tend to show THREE fusible links, I've only ever managed to find TWO on mine. So exactly where that WL wire comes from (ie. from the 3rd fusible link) is a bit of a mystery to me.

Have you found any fusible links at all there?

Do you have a hanging wire near your battery's +Ve terminal that's not connected to anything? (Of course that mystery WL wire could instead originate from the ignition switch with the 3rd fusible link hidden somewhere under the dash )

Any photos you may be able to provide of that fusible link area would be greatly appreciated.

Couldn't find the fusible link but I did have 0.1v at the terminal and I ran a jumper today and relays click now. I guess that's a good sign but not what I was hoping for (still no luck)
The hunt contiues...

 

[DogDigger]

Also, did you check out the DMM I posted on one of the HJ47 theads? I might get one because of some of the features but do you think it's woth it?

 

[tmarx]

.. and there was a ring connector with fairly thick wire leading to it just not connected !

Sounds almost like my old problem ? Can it reach as far as the + terminal, either directly via a secondary tab or via another "dangling" wire that is connected to the + terminal ? ? Your FCR needs to be connected directly off the + terminal

 

[lostmarbles]

Couldn't find the fusible link but I did have 0.1v at the terminal and I ran a jumper today and relays click now. I guess that's a good sign but not what I was hoping for (still no luck)
The hunt contiues...

But did you try your key in various positions while the jumper was there?

I suggest de-activating your starter by disconnecting your starter solenoid connector (that you should see dangling next to your starter motor). Once you've done that you can move your key to all positions without fear of cranking/starting your engine, in your efforts to get your FCM to move between, start/overinject, stop/fuel-off, and run/mid positions.

If you detected some voltage (0.1V) at the end of that brown wire on your FCR connector then it sounds likely that it originates correctly where it should but that there is some damage (like fraying or burning or a corroded-connection) along the route.

Also, did you check out the DMM I posted on one of the HJ47 theads? I might get one because of some of the features but do you think it's woth it?

You can certainly get some pretty good meters at places like Dick Smiths or Jaycar. (And $60 isn't paying too much for a good meter IMO.)

But I did have a brief squizz at that one and as a recall it's designed primarily for petrol engines with most of the meter devoted to measuring rpm (by sensing the frequency of spark/current surrges in a plug lead).

So based on the limited things I like to measure, I'd choose a simpler one without the "rpm dwell etc features".

(But having said that, I recently paid well over $100 for a DC clampmeter which I find useful for measuring glowplug currents. But I wouldn't want to use such an expensive meter for routine continuity & voltage/no-voltage checking. So I have more than one meter here.)

 

[lostmarbles]

..I was thinking the other day about why your wagon has the same FCR as a BJ42 yet has a different FCM. And I decided it'll likely be because your injector pump is on the wrong side of your engine (compared to any B-series engine).....So your FCM set-positions will sort-of be the mirror image of ours. ...So I think you should be able to use those B-series engine EDIC-check instructions I posted ... provided you bear this in mind.

Well I'm always gaining more cruiser-related stuff and I've just got my hands on a pristine 2H FSM today.

(Don't worry... My obsession IS in control. REALLY!. I restrict my collecting of FSMs to pre-1980 diesels only. )

And looking at it, I see I was right in thinking that BJ42 and HJ47 EDIC systems would be identical except for "mirror image differences" due to their IPs being on different sides of their engines.

...That WL (white with blue stripe) wire that goes to your FCRs B-pin should have power ALL the time, regardless of key-position, according to all the wiring diagrams I've looked at. ...So if its got no power that's certainly going to explain why your EDIC system doesn't work...Now .... I feel I should explain that while all the Toyota wiring diagrams I've seen for our cruisers tend to show THREE fusible links, I've only ever managed to find TWO on mine. So exactly where that WL wire comes from (ie. from the 3rd fusible link) is a bit of a mystery to me. ...Have you found any fusible links at all there? ...Do you have a hanging wire near your battery's +Ve terminal that's not connected to anything? (Of course that mystery WL wire could instead originate from the ignition switch with the 3rd fusible link hidden somewhere under the dash ...

But did you try your key in various positions while the jumper was there?
I suggest de-activating your starter by disconnecting your starter solenoid connector (that you should see dangling next to your starter motor). Once you've done that you can move your key to all positions without fear of cranking/starting your engine, in your efforts to get your FCM to move between, start/overinject, stop/fuel-off, and run/mid positions.

If you detected some voltage (0.1V) at the end of that brown wire on your FCR connector then it sounds likely that it originates correctly where it should but that there is some damage (like fraying or burning or a corroded-connection) along the route.

I might appear to be inconsistant in saying the same wire is colourcoded both as WL (white with blue stripe) and as B (brown).

But there is a reason for this...

When helping Theo with his BJ42 I observed the wire on the FCR pigtail leading to that pin to be B.

And in my 1983 FJ/BJ/HJ4# wiring diagram I see the loom wire leading to that pin is WL.




PS. Today I also got a 1979 BJ40 wiring diagram (originating from Hockett Toyota in IOWA USA of all places).
It correctly shows only 2 fusible links for a 1979 BJ40 which matches what I've got! (Yipee!)
Prior to receiving this diagram I always referred to a 1981 diagram which incorrectly shows three fusible links.
So instead of "the live" for my FCR coming from a mysterious 3rd fusible link (1981 diagram), I now see it coming from my engine fuse.
This 1979 diagram is labelled "USA & Canada" even though no BJ40s were ever sold new in the USA. And BTW it still isn't a perfect match for my vehicle which is an Australian model..
Not that any of this probably matters to you with your HJ47 ... except to show that you can NEVER rely on Toyota wiring diagrams. (But never-the-less they're still the best starting point if you're delving at all deeply into your wiring.)

 

[DogDigger]

Well, I know it's been a very long time and just an update on the EDIC system...
When an auto sparky was helping my dad with getting his bobcat's AC radiator replaced and getting it gassed, he asked me about my 40. My dad said to him that I fixed up most of the electrics and got 90% of it running and he asked me what the last 10% was. It was the EDIC system and he asked me to test for continuity between the relay and the EDIC motor (something I should of done a long time ago but I never got round to it) and turns out 2 connections didn't get continuity and the spade lugs just snapped off so there was our problem.... now.... I can't find my EDIC relay now and I remember that I put it in a "special place"

I'll find it sooner or later. It would be nice to have EDIC finally working

 

[lostmarbles]

...... I can't find my EDIC relay now and I remember that I put it in a "special place"...

That's a common geriatric complaint and you're ever soooooo young!

Think what you'll be like at my age.....

 

[DogDigger]

That's a common geriatric complaint and you're ever soooooo young!

Think what you'll be like at my age.....

It's in a box somewhere in something.....
That's all I remember (after all, it has been 6 months since I've touched it)
Going to have another look tomorrow (Australia day today)

However I did find a few other things while I was looking for it... including some projects that I forgot about and a few tools like one of my multimeters (only have it now because It's got a temp probe, other than that, it does nothing that my good meter can do)

 

[DogDigger]

Well I found it. Still not working though... I think one of the four lines has a bad connection so I'll try fixing that

 

[SAB]

Bit of a bump from the archives here,

What harm would be done by not utilizing the over-inject phase of the EDIC system?

In other words, is it detrimental to the rig at all if you simply remove the control rod, install a manual pull cable to shut the engine off, and go about your days with one less electronic component to worry about?

I realize the oil pressure switch is a good fail-safe, but as Mr. Marbles mentioned in another thread, you could easily wire a dummy light to illuminate.

1980 BJ41 2B/24V for reference.