2H and EDIC Questions HELP!

[DogDigger]

My HJ47 doesn't stop when the key is switched off. I have to stall it to stop it. Several questions: Would an 83' 2h have EDIC or a pull choke or something else to stop the engine? Isn't there certain parts that can be damaged by stalling? Also, I think my fuel pump isn't stock. Is the electrical unit with two hoses coming out of it the fuel pump? It's located near a metal tank with two hoses coming out under the drivers seat mounted below the body. It's black and circular. What ever it is, it's not connected. One of the hoses Isn't connected.
I'm a complete noob when it comes to this stuff and help would be appreciated.

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

My HJ47 doesn't stop when the key is switched off. I have to stall it to stop it. Several questions: Would an 83' 2h have EDIC or a pull choke or something else to stop the engine? Isn't there certain parts that can be damaged by stalling? Also, I think my fuel pump isn't stock. Is the electrical unit with two hoses coming out of it the fuel pump? It's located near a metal tank with two hoses coming out under the drivers seat mounted below the body. It's black and circular. What ever it is, it's not connected. One of the hoses Isn't connected.
I'm a complete noob when it comes to this stuff and help would be appreciated.

A 83 will have an edic. look at the edit arm and have someone move the key to the ignition position and then the start position, and later to off. The edit arm should move accordingly. The 2H manual tells you the exact positions (if you don;t have it, download it, you will need it).

By stalling it you will put stress on the clutch. Another way of shutting it down would be to move the edit arm manually to the off position.

You do not have a file pump, just an injection pump. What you are looking at under the frame is the water separator. It should be hooked up too, but probably was bypassed as it was leaking or plugged. Take it off and look at it accurately. You can easily take it apart, clean it and check for leaks. It is made of rather thick metal and can be welded.

cheers,
jan

 

[lostmarbles]

Post photos and it'll be much easier to answer your questions DD.

I agree with Jan that having to permanently use "stalling" as the method of stopping your engine will be bad long-term. (But I understand your reluctance to have to lift the hood each time too.)

The EDIC relay should sense when your key is turned off and react by getting your EDIC motor to move your EDIC arm to the "fuel off" position. .. (I think you'll probably find your EDIC arm has been removed by your PO to disable your EDIC system. This is what a lot of people do when their EDIC systems develop faults that they don't want to be bothered fixing.)

You have a fuel pump attached to your injector pump and no other "feed pump" should be needed.

 

[DogDigger]

Thanks guys for all the help and I'll need more to get the EDIC fully up and going. I had a look and A fairly big relay (mounted on the front eight wheel arch) clicks but the EDIC motor doesn't budge. There was clearly a hose leading to it that had been cut and there was a ring connector with fairly thick wire leading to it just not connected and I'll take a few multimeter measurements and see if the motor will eventually work. For now I have to open the bonnet when I want to stop but tomorrow I'll instal an ultra high tech 21st century solution pull cable to manually stop it
Thanks guys for all you help. The clutch will appreciate it too!

 

[lostmarbles]

I had a look and A fairly big relay (mounted on the front eight wheel arch) clicks but the EDIC motor doesn't budge. There was clearly a hose leading to it that had been cut and there was a ring connector with fairly thick wire leading to it just not connected and I'll take a few multimeter measurements and see if the motor will eventually work.

That hose is just a "breather" and it should be "cut" as you can see here from the EDIC motor on my spare engine DD:



Pictures of your cut wire might help us help you with that too.

 

[DogDigger]

That hose is just a "breather" and it should be "cut" as you can see here from the EDIC motor on my spare engine DD:

Pictures of your cut wire might help us help you with that too.

Ok thats good to know. Here is a pic of the wire:




Thanks,
DD

 

[DogDigger]

Ok thats good to know. Here is a pic of the wire:

Thanks,
DD

oh and it's double insulated with a blue colour under black outer insulation

 

[roscoFJ73]

That looks like an earth wire/cable.

 

[roscoFJ73]

That hose is just a "breather" and it should be "cut" as you can see here from the EDIC motor on my spare engine DD:

View attachment 644258

Pictures of your cut wire might help us help you with that too.

No wonder they ditched that for the fuel cut solenoid,its huge.

 

[lostmarbles]

I had a look and A fairly big relay (mounted on the front eight wheel arch) clicks but the EDIC motor doesn't budge. .....

Is this the relay you're talking about DD? (Circled in red)


(Picture uplifted from your other thread.)

If so, it doesn't appear to me to be OEM and I think it's unlikely to be associated with your EDIC system. (I suspect it's more likely to have been fitted to control your glow plug current in a more simple way than the "superglow system" that Toyota probably originally used on your model cruiser.)

Ok thats good to know. Here is a pic of the wire:Thanks,DD

oh and it's double insulated with a blue colour under black outer insulation

That looks like an earth wire/cable.

That wire doesn't ring a bell with me.

If it is an earth (as Rosco takes a stab at) then I think it is an unusual colour for that purpose and I don't recall any earth wire like that near the EDIC motor.

It looks a bit like the wire that takes current to my glow plug busbar on my BJ40.

So...... Speaking of glowplugs ....... Do they work OK? In other words, how does the old girl fire up on a cold morning? (Not that I expect you know much about "REAL COLD" over there )?

If she fires up with a lot of white smoke and takes quite a while (such as 2 or 3 minutes) for the smoke to clear and for the engine to begin to idle smoothly - then your plugs may not be operational (which would add weight to my suspicion that the big round relay and the unconnected wire are both part of "malicious tampering" by your benefactor (ie ...by the crazy man who gave you this fine veeee-hick-le in repayment for your miniscule attempt at hard-labour)..

No wonder they ditched that for the fuel cut solenoid,its huge.

That's proper old-school engineering Rosco. (None of your modern "sealed-for-life, deluxe, plastic-housed, electronic-gizmo s***e" that self-destructs when anyone even mentions words like "water" or "voltage spikes".)

 

[DogDigger]

So...... Speaking of glowplugs ....... Do they work OK? In other words, how does the old girl fire up on a cold morning? (Not that I expect you know much about "REAL COLD" over there )?

If she fires up with a lot of white smoke and takes quite a while (such as 2 or 3 minutes) for the smoke to clear and for the engine to begin to idle smoothly - then your plugs may not be operational

I think I know what that relay is for. I'm sure it's for the heater before starting. I'm not sure what it's exactly called but there is a button for it near the spedo. On cold mornings, 9degC for me, give the heater a good 15 seconds abd she starts fine with hardly any smoke (fine haze if anything). I do know about real cold when I went to a ski trip the thredbo. My mum's swiss and since she moved to Oz, she has never seen snow untill the trip but in New Zealand, it gets a lot colder compared to where I live. Today I'm going to give it a good look-at and poke around eith the multimeter (and et the 2H manual ASAP)
Thanks for your help LM and everyone else

 

[roscoFJ73]

I



That's proper old-school engineering Rosco. (None of your modern "sealed-for-life, deluxe, plastic-housed, electronic-gizmo s***e" that self-destructs when anyone even mentions words like "water" or "voltage spikes".)

How many fuel cut solenoids here have died vs dead EDICs? LOL
I think the idea was around when they invented the rotary pump in 1939?

 

[roscoFJ73]

I think I know what that relay is for. I'm sure it's for the heater before starting. I'm not sure what it's exactly called but there is a button for it near the spedo. On cold mornings, 9degC for me, give the heater a good 15 seconds abd she starts fine with hardly any smoke (fine haze if anything).

Thats what it would be for.Auto electricians here often fit them to landcruisers when the glow system fails.
I think they call them a solenoid switch

 

[lostmarbles]

How many fuel cut solenoids here have died vs dead EDICs? LOL
I think the idea was around when they invented the rotary pump in 1939?

These EDIC motors are a work of art Rosco.

In fact ....Polished and painted they'd be absolutely awesome .

Now ya can't say that for your puny little fuel cut solenoid can you?

And ya solenoid doesn't give ya the extra fuel ya need for easy-starting either now does it? Be honest!



PS. And if you start hitting below the belt next by bitching that those big blossoming clouds of smoke (containing billions of carcinogenic particulates) that my engine spews forth during started-up are damaging our environment (and extrapolate from that .. "that EDIC motors should be banned forthwith") .... I'll forewarn you that I'll resort to bringing up the infamous "Chappel brothers underarm incident":

Trevor Chappell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(As you know, this is always what we kiwis do whenever we're arguing from a shakey footing. )

 

[roscoFJ73]

These EDIC motors are a work of art Rosco.

In fact ....Polished and painted they'd be absolutely awesome .

Now ya can't say that for your puny little fuel cut solenoid can you?

And ya solenoid doesn't give ya the extra fuel ya need for easy-starting either now does it? Be honest!



)

They are a work of art but my 1HZ does a 2 second glow and starts at 6am when its 5c
The Chappels did cheat,so you have nothing left in your armoury

 

[DogDigger]

PS. And if you start hitting below the belt next by bitching that those big blossoming clouds of smoke (containing billions of carcinogenic particulates) that my engine spews forth during started-up are damaging our environment (and extrapolate from that .. "that EDIC motors should be banned forthwith") .... I'll forewarn you that I'll resort to bringing up the infamous "Chappel brothers underarm incident":
)

In that case I'd just invent or make a more efficient cat converter or put a bizillion filters. Argument now invalid (what smoke at startup?)

 

[roscoFJ73]

Whats the body like on this HJ47?

 

[DogDigger]

Whats the body like on this HJ47?

Just look at my other thread (first rig hj57 trayback blah bllah etc etc)

 

[DogDigger]

"malicious tampering" by your benefactor (ie ...by the crazy man who gave you this fine veeee-hick-le in repayment for your miniscule attempt at hard-labour)..

Miniscule attemp at hard labour? All people in my year define hard labour as washing the dishes or bringing the shopping in The wall was 20m by 15m, two high (500 each). The aussie sun wasn't forgiving that day and about 5 or so years ago I was pushing a diesel compactor doing the pad for that house (oh and driving my dad's bobcat). Good times. The PO was a diesel mech and he works on trucks and heavy machinery. It could of been him that installed the pre-heat system which is just a switch and a relay connected to the glow plugs (I assume that's it but rosco would know more about it)
That might be my next thing on my list. Getting the glow system same as how it was stock. First priority is EDIC. Today I took apart the fuel controller (EDIC relay or whatever you want to call it) to inspect it. There was no corrosion or anything on the board. One thing that I might do is check the resistance across the motor pins. As far as I know, there a 4 coloured cables leading to the motor and they are the yellow, green, red and blue. Question; the cable that goes to the oil pressure switch has got 5v on it (colour code YB). I'm just trying to pin-point the problem. Thanks guys for all the help

 

[lostmarbles]

Miniscule attemp at hard labour? All people in my year define hard labour as washing the dishes or bringing the shopping in The wall was 20m by 15m, two high (500 each). The aussie sun wasn't forgiving that day and about 5 or so years ago I was pushing a diesel compactor doing the pad for that house (oh and driving my dad's bobcat).

Best to ignore my verbal diarrhea on occasions DD. (It's a kiwi thing. ..... Just like my compatriot - Dougal, I also like to engage in baiting from time to time.)

...The PO was a diesel mech and he works on trucks and heavy machinery. It could of been him that installed the pre-heat system which is just a switch and a relay connected to the glow plugs .......... That might be my next thing on my list. Getting the glow system same as how it was stock.

I like things to be stock but I must admit that the "superglow" preheat system the factory installed on your truck does give trouble and it was an early step towards treating landcruiser owners as "impatient dummies". .... In other words, Toyota tried to speed up the preheating process, and tried also to take the control of it away from the person sitting in the driver's seat (by making its workings automatic).

So in your shoes I'm not sure which way I'd go either. (Stock or modified.)

..First priority is EDIC. Today I took apart the fuel controller (EDIC relay or whatever you want to call it) to inspect it. There was no corrosion or anything on the board. One thing that I might do is check the resistance across the motor pins. As far as I know, there a 4 coloured cables leading to the motor and they are the yellow, green, red and blue. Question; the cable that goes to the oil pressure switch has got 5v on it (colour code YB). I'm just trying to pin-point the problem. Thanks guys for all the help

Firstly
Looking at my info here I see your EDIC relay (aka Fuel Control Relay) should be part number 28590-57010. (Have a look and see if you find this number on it.)

This relay was apparently used on the following Aug 1980 to June 1985 12 volt landcruisers:
BJ40, BJ42, HJ47 (B, 3B and 2H engines)

(and also found on an Aug 80 to April 82 2B-powered 12 volt BB10 Coaster)

In your pm you asked about whether the relay from a HJ60 would work.... Well it appears that relay is 28590-56090 (assuming its a 12V cruiser) so, because the part number is different, I doubt it.

Secondly
That wire to the oil switch (that you measure 5V on) gets "shorted to earth" whenever your oil pressure drops below around 3-5 psi. In other words, your oil switch opens on rising pressure and closes on falling pressure.
(So if your engine loses oil pressure during a journey, that wire will become earthed and cause your EDIC system to stop your engine.)

Thirdly
Your EDIC relay is different to my earlier one and I've kept only info relating to mine. So I'm afraid I'm not much help in diagnosing whether yours is faulty or not or what each component in yours does.

If it looks fine, perhaps you should take a peak inside your EDIC gearhousing. At the top there you'll find electrical contacts. Grease or other muck sometimes gets in the way to stop them operating correctly.

It is these contacts that tell the relay when the arm has reached the "set point" dictated by the conditions (and thereby stop further power getting fed to the motor that would otherwise make it turn too far).

By "set point" I mean these three positions:

• Fuel shut-off (aka "stop")
• Engine run
• Overinject (aka "start")

Hope this helps