22re crazy rattle/knocking

[BlueCruiser84]

Hey guys,

So today I finally got my exhaust on this endless f*****g 22re motor swap - she's almost ready for an inspection and to be driven. I've run the motor about 20 minutes total over the last couple months.

I fire it up today and it is nice and quiet, just as I had planned, then all of a sudden there is a single "knock" (not like bottom end) then nothing then some sputters then a bunch of clattering and I turn it off. I figure I left something up front and it fell and hit the fan - no dice. Start it back up and the noise is there kind of in and out. Intermittent, kind of... let it run a bit and it gets quiet as the motor warms up. It doesnt help that it's idling at 2000 rpm because of the stupid-high cold idle. Then suddenly it just starts clattering like crazy. Turn it off.

I pulled the valve cover because it sounded top endy and all the valves and springs are good. Plenty of oil up there. Turned it over by hand a bunch - no noise. Turned it over with the starter with the plugs out - no noise.

Two folks have said there is probably something in the cylinder which is just friggin' great. That's the way I'm leaning at this point. I guess I need to track down one of those boroscope dealies.

Any other thoughts?

 

[yotadude520]

What's the history of the engine? Was it rebuilt? Valve clearances checked out ok?

Interesting scenario...after you turned it by hand did you put it back together and see if it kept making the noise? Did you look the head over as it was turned over to make sure everything was working smoothly?

 

[BlueCruiser84]

History is it was resealed and tolerances mic’d About 6000 miles ago by a buddy. He drove it for that time and it ran perfectly. Motor was originally pulled from a ‘93 2wd with about 130k miles on it.

I did start it after turning it by hand and the noise was still there. After I checked valve clearances today and confirmed there was nothing obviously loose or broken in the valve train I quit. I was pretty pissed.

 

[iwashmycar]

Maybe check plugs? Always a decent go to...if something is in the cylinder I assume it might damage one.

You did do the exhaust...make sure its all tight?...I assume it is more of an 'internal' sound though.

 

[BlueCruiser84]

Maybe check plugs? Always a decent go to...if something is in the cylinder I assume it might damage one.

You did do the exhaust...make sure its all tight?...I assume it is more of an 'internal' sound though.

I wish it were the exhaust, but no it’s definitely up in the motor. The only work I did today was cat-back. I DID NOT pull the plugs after the second time running. If there were something in there odds are good it hit a plug. I’ll recheck them when I get a chance to work on it again. Probably a week from now, at least.

 

[iwashmycar]

You did say it was the endless F*****g motor swap, so go figure lol

Betcha in a week that sh*t will purr like a kitten and youll be like WTF all over again!

 

[BlueCruiser84]

You did say it was the endless F*****g motor swap, so go figure lol

Betcha in a week that sh*t will purr like a kitten and youll be like WTF all over again!

God I hope so.

 

[pappy]

I'm going to ask a silly question. Got oil in the engine?

 

[BlueCruiser84]

I'm going to ask a silly question. Got oil in the engine?

Yep. Good question though. New, clean oil. Good oil pressure according to factory gauge. Underneath valve cover and inside oil pan was pristine and not all sludged up.

 

[jgranthevagrant]

Take a bright light and have a look down the timing chain. Turn crank at same time. Look for problems.

 

[yotadude520]

I second taking a peek at the timing chain.

Maybe start it and put a stethoscope to it and see if you can isolate where exactly the noise is coming from and go from there. If there is something in the cylinder at least that could point you to which one.

 

[Pacer]

I second taking a peek at the timing chain.

Maybe start it and put a stethoscope to it and see if you can isolate where exactly the noise is coming from and go from there. If there is something in the cylinder at least that could point you to which one.

By stethoscope, he means you can use a long screw driver or socket extension held to your ear and the other end applied directly to various areas on the running engine to help pinpoint the noise.
Check the alternator, does this have a smog pump?
Please be mindful of the fan and rotating bits while stethoscoping.

 

[BlueCruiser84]

After doing a little more research on the internetz I am suspecting timing chain slack. Maybe a failed tensioner or a clogged oil passage on the tensioner.

Am I correct in assuming there should be NO slack in the chain when the motor is not running?

 

[BlueCruiser84]

By stethoscope, he means you can use a long screw driver or socket extension held to your ear and the other end applied directly to various areas on the running engine to help pinpoint the noise.
Check the alternator, does this have a smog pump?
Please be mindful of the fan and rotating bits while stethoscoping.

I did the screwdriver trick, but could not really here anything definitive. I never did it when the noise was loudest, though, because I didn’t want to leave it running. This was before I checked the valve train. I had pictures in my head of carnage under the VC. Now that I know the top end is good I’ll let it run a little longer and try to isolate.

 

[yotadude520]

After doing a little more research on the internetz I am suspecting timing chain slack. Maybe a failed tensioner or a clogged oil passage on the tensioner.

Am I correct in assuming there should be NO slack in the chain when the motor is not running?

When I did the timing chain in my 20R I had no slack at any point in time and never had any weird issues and I’d like to say the 22RE should be the same.

 

[Pacer]

If it's a slack timing chain, you can see it easily by rotating the crank manually back and forth and see that the cam or distributor are late to respond.

Yes, there should be no slack in the timing chain.

 

[BlueCruiser84]

Thanks for all the ideas, boys. I’ve got lots to chew on here, unfortunately I won’t get a chance to look into it for at least a week.

 

[BlueCruiser84]

Got a little time!

Plugs are good. No damage.

Timing chain/guides are new looking. All bolts where they should be. Turning by hand everything looks ok. Tensioner stays out via spring pressure. Tight/loose in all the right places.

I’ve got a Bluetooth endoscope on the way. Crazy that you can buy a tiny camera with LED lights and Bluetooth for $35 shipped to your door.

 

[BlueCruiser84]

Got my endoscope. This thing was baller for $39 shipped. https://www.amazon.com/Endoscope-Borescope-Inspection-Megapixels-Smartphone/dp/B01MYTI2HV

Cylinders were clear.

Drained a quart of oil and replaced with ATF. Fired it up. Lots of racket. Drove around field in 4low and it quieted down a little. Only clattering came on above 2k rpm.

She hadn’t blowed up yet so I said f-it and took her on the road. Drove normally for a couple miles until it was warmed up and then ran it up to about 4K rpm. There was a pop and some other weird rattly noise and then she purred! Drove another 10-15 miles and she ran great!

I need to get a battery hold down and I think she’s ready for inspection!

 

[Pacer]

Got my endoscope. This thing was baller for $39 shipped. https://www.amazon.com/Endoscope-Borescope-Inspection-Megapixels-Smartphone/dp/B01MYTI2HV

Cylinders were clear.

Drained a quart of oil and replaced with ATF. Fired it up. Lots of racket. Drove around field in 4low and it quieted down a little. Only clattering came on above 2k rpm.

She hadn’t blowed up yet so I said f-it and took her on the road. Drove normally for a couple miles until it was warmed up and then ran it up to about 4K rpm. There was a pop and some other weird rattly noise and then she purred! Drove another 10-15 miles and she ran great!

I need to get a battery hold down and I think she’s ready for inspection!

Crazy
Great news!

Got a recording of the noise you were chasing?