2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (2 Viewers)

[on the rocks]

The 4runner was the FJ40 successor for north america in 1984. So, it does fit with the historical place in the lineup.

Interesting, I had no idea the 1985 4R was a solid axle. Where is that guy that runs the LS museum in SLC for clarification on this? I would have said your on crack when saying the 4R is the FJ40 descendent... If so why wasn't it named the J50 or J60?!?!?
I'm more confused than ever if the case on the Toyota SUV lineup... And I thought the TNGA platform lineup is confusing yet so simple and still think they should simplify it all with TNGA- mini, mid, max and so on.... They are all looking to be the same damn car with an ever so slightly different body, different accessories...
So is the 550 really a LC250? or Sequoya or still a 4R???? They used the exact same video to showcase the chassis as the 300, so its really a 300 in disguise?

 

[mcgaskins]

View attachment 3348905

Yeah I've been wondering about this image as well. They just slipped in some gnarly sliders with no mention of if they are OEM or aftermarket or what.

I don’t know if they were photoshopped or not but the picture comes from Toyota’s global media website.

They photoshopped matching dirt stains on the sliders if that's true.

To me, the picture with sliders looks photoshopped. If you zoom into the pic, you'll see a couple unusual things going on. For example, the GX is supposed to come with Toyo AT3s, but those look like BFG KO2s to my eyes. What's interesting is zooming into the sidewall it says "CONTINENTAL Premium Contact" and 195/55 neither of which is accurate of course. Also the wheel offset looks far too aggressive, especially on the rear where it shows nearly half the tire sticking past the body. There are a few elements to the photo that suggest photoshopping to me, and I cannot locate the original picture on Lexus' website - only a screengrab from a YouTube video.

Here is the rear zoomed in showing a very extreme wheel offset:

 

[G-Cat]

Interesting, I had no idea the 1985 4R was a solid axle. Where is that guy that runs the LS museum in SLC for clarification on this? I would have said your on crack when saying the 4R is the FJ40 descendent... If so why wasn't it named the J50 or J60?!?!?
I'm more confused than ever if the case on the Toyota SUV lineup... And I thought the TNGA platform lineup is confusing yet so simple and still think they should simplify it all with TNGA- mini, mid, max and so on.... They are all looking to be the same damn car with an ever so slightly different body, different accessories...
So is the 550 really a LC250? or Sequoya or still a 4R???? They used the exact same video to showcase the chassis as the 300, so its really a 300 in disguise?

The 1984 4Runner was a 2-door, solid axle, partially removable top...but it wasn't the successor to the FJ-40, in Toyota's mind. The FJ-60 continued as the Land Cruiser in the US...the 4Runner was on a separate track that evolved from the Toyota Trekker which was a USDM Toyota truck customized by Winnebago.

1984 and 1985 were the only years with SFA, and 1985 was the only year with both SFA and EFI (not all 1985s were EFI, it was an option).

1986-1989 were all IFS and, in 1990, the 4Runner lost its removable top...but still had a 2-door or 4-door option. The 2-door wasn't popular and was short-lived.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Interesting, I had no idea the 1985 4R was a solid axle. Where is that guy that runs the LS museum in SLC for clarification on this? I would have said your on crack when saying the 4R is the FJ40 descendent... If so why wasn't it named the J50 or J60?!?!?
I'm more confused than ever if the case on the Toyota SUV lineup... And I thought the TNGA platform lineup is confusing yet so simple and still think they should simplify it all with TNGA- mini, mid, max and so on.... They are all looking to be the same damn car with an ever so slightly different body, different accessories...
So is the 550 really a LC250? or Sequoya or still a 4R???? They used the exact same video to showcase the chassis as the 300, so its really a 300 in disguise?

I personally wouldn't call the 4Runner the sucessor of the FJ40... it just went away in the US market as the US case and need expired. You won't find any reference to the FJ40->4Runner at the LCHM from our own documents or Toyota's. Globally the 70 replaced the FJ40.

The 4Runner did have a solid front axle in 83 (MY84), 84 & 85 but it was the smaller chassis, smaller diffs, steering, etc. It was a new offering (well there was the Trekker) rather than a replacement.

 

[jayp2]

I personally wouldn't call the 4Runner the sucessor of the FJ40... it just went away in the US market as the US case and need expired. You won't find any reference to the FJ40->4Runner at the LCHM from our own documents or Toyota's. Globally the 70 replaced the FJ40.

The 4Runner did have a solid front axle in 83 (MY84), 84 & 85 but it was the smaller chassis, smaller diffs, steering, etc. It was a new offering (well there was the Trekker) rather than a replacement.

Wasnt the 4runner originally essentially a toyota truck with a diff rear portion of body?

 

[Jetboy]

Interesting, I had no idea the 1985 4R was a solid axle. Where is that guy that runs the LS museum in SLC for clarification on this? I would have said your on crack when saying the 4R is the FJ40 descendent... If so why wasn't it named the J50 or J60?!?!?
I'm more confused than ever if the case on the Toyota SUV lineup... And I thought the TNGA platform lineup is confusing yet so simple and still think they should simplify it all with TNGA- mini, mid, max and so on.... They are all looking to be the same damn car with an ever so slightly different body, different accessories...
So is the 550 really a LC250? or Sequoya or still a 4R???? They used the exact same video to showcase the chassis as the 300, so its really a 300 in disguise?

I wouldn't necessarily call it a descendent of the FJ40, but a market segment replacement. FJ40 was the 4x4 fun vehicle with a convertible top. When it was discontinued the dealers found their own replacement by having Winnebago create a Trekker and Toyota then became a partner in the project. And the FJ40 was replaced at the showroom with the Trekker. The 4Runner was an outgrowth of the Toyota/Winnebago Trekker conversions and the dealer/customer demand for a FJ40 replacement. Had Toyota not discontinued the FJ40, there would likely be no 4Runner. It was created as a replacement product when Toyota failed to deliver. I think that's the general history.

Edit: I'm a little shaky on the history of all of them, but even more so on the others. There were at least two other versions of the hilux/minitruck to SUV conversion that had less success. One called a Trailblazer made I think by International Coach Inc., and one called a Wolverine that was a made by unknown coach builder. I've seen reference to someone called Griffeth or something like that.
Trekker:

Trailblazer:

Wolverine:

Might still be relevant today. If a third party would offer a conversion kit on a Tacoma to make a Wrangler competitor - you'd see them on every Toyota lot until Toyota capitulates and builds what the dealers want. The dealers want a wrangler, not another midsize wagon to sell alongside the other midsize wagon.

 

[on the rocks]

I personally wouldn't call the 4Runner the sucessor of the FJ40... it just went away in the US market as the US case and need expired. You won't find any reference to the FJ40->4Runner at the LCHM from our own documents or Toyota's. Globally the 70 replaced the FJ40.

Interesting, I need to stop in the LCHM one of these days. I was in the area many times before I even knew it was there years ago.
So we did establish that @Jetboy truly IS on crack then...
I had no idea that not only did the 50 series run in the same production timeframe as the 40 but the 60 series did as well.... They were their so called Luxury LC then? So it didn't go wrong with the 100 series it was when they released the 50 as a LC and it should have been a Lexus line all along. And the 80 series actually wasn't the first to have a sister Lexus, there was essentially just 2 identical Lexus's with a different name badge and some plastic cladding and subwoofer thrown in...

ANNND the 70 series is the only true LC still in production since the death of the FJ and we luck Americans never had a chance thanks to the wonderful soccer moms that felt the need for a 7 passenger SUV.
Soooo, there is a chance they will bring a modernized solid axle LC70 to the US this fall then!!!! Especially with the latest teaser they released.

 

[Jetboy]

Interesting, I need to stop in the LCHM one of these days. I was in the area many times before I even knew it was there years ago.
So we did establish that @Jetboy truly IS on crack then...
I had no idea that not only did the 50 series run in the same production timeframe as the 40 but the 60 series did as well.... They were their so called Luxury LC then? So it didn't go wrong with the 100 series it was when they released the 50 as a LC and it should have been a Lexus line all along. And the 80 series actually wasn't the first to have a sister Lexus, there was essentially just 2 identical Lexus's with a different name badge and some plastic cladding and subwoofer thrown in...

ANNND the 70 series is the only true LC still in production since the death of the FJ and we luck Americans never had a chance thanks to the wonderful soccer moms that felt the need for a 7 passenger SUV.
Soooo, there is a chance they will bring a modernized solid axle LC70 to the US this fall then!!!! Especially with the latest teaser they released.
View attachment 3349331

"It all started in 1979 when the Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40 was discontinued. The person who arguably reacted the most was Jack Safro, a Toyota dealer in Brookfield, Wisconsin.

Like many car fanatics, Safro took a vehicle he really liked (the Land Cruiser FJ40) and dreamt up his own version of it. However, unlike many car fanatics, Safro actually turned his fantasy into reality. He brought his concept to Winnebago and sold it so well that it was approved. Toyota was eventually brought into the mix and, after collaboration between the two companies, production of the Toyota Trekker began in 1981."

Does that make it a successor? replacement? Whatever semantics we use - it clearly was the replacement product.

 

[on the rocks]

It all makes sense now... Even gave a hint on the GX teaser. Must be Gazoo Dakar Racing FJ734... coming December 31 2023...
And Jet boy is sort of on crack but sort of right still lol.

 

[Hiluxforever]

"It all started in 1979 when the Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40 was discontinued. The person who arguably reacted the most was Jack Safro, a Toyota dealer in Brookfield, Wisconsin.

Like many car fanatics, Safro took a vehicle he really liked (the Land Cruiser FJ40) and dreamt up his own version of it. However, unlike many car fanatics, Safro actually turned his fantasy into reality. He brought his concept to Winnebago and sold it so well that it was approved. Toyota was eventually brought into the mix and, after collaboration between the two companies, production of the Toyota Trekker began in 1981."

Does that make it a successor? replacement? Whatever semantics we use - it clearly was the replacement product.

It was all possible because of the 4wd Hilux/Pickup introduced in 1979.

I have had an 85 pickup and 4Runner and the 4Runner was very much a pickup and it wasn't until the 2nd gen that they started to diverge, with the 4Runner getting coils while it still had those awful torsion bars.

I am also very biased, as my alias may suggest.

 

[on the rocks]

They did throw this out there 12 weeks ago and not sure many caught it or took it serious. Probably already mounted on the 300 chassis... Maybe they photo shopped the axle.. as many clearly shown they like to do.

And look,,,, it DOES have a tail gate, not only that its extra large!! lol

the 5 lug thing is throwing this theory off tho... Oh and IRS. photoshop

 

[Jetboy]

It was all possible because of the 4wd Hilux/Pickup introduced in 1979.

I have had an 85 pickup and 4Runner and the 4Runner was very much a pickup and it wasn't until the 2nd gen that they started to diverge, with the 4Runner getting coils while it still had those awful torsion bars.

I am also very biased, as my alias may suggest.

I'm a big fan of the early pickups. I've owned a 79, 80, and 84. Wish I could have kept them all. For me the 84 was my favorite of the group. It was the luxurious SR5 trim. But they were all very similar as were the 4Runners. I'd consider swapping my FJ40 for a 84/85 4Runner. I've been watching for the right 1st gen 4R to buy. I just like the layout a little better now that I have kids. I have the OEM rear jumper seats in the FJ40 and they're not safe for highway use.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

They did throw this out there 12 weeks ago and not sure many caught it or took it serious. Probably already mounted on the 300 chassis... Maybe they photo shopped the axle.. as many clearly shown they like to do.
View attachment 3349362

That was an acutal concept model they built in 1999 for a 2000 auto show. I like that they showed it, I'm hoping we see some of that design influence in the new model.

 

[on the rocks]

That was an acutal concept model they built in 1999 for a 2000 auto show. I like that they showed it, I'm hoping we see some of that design influence in the new model.

I just saw you posted it back in March. Sure didn't get much reaction tho. I'm liking it as long as that is scales to the 112.2 wheelbase and not as big as it appears. Front will likely be IFC so why not the rear while they are at it.
Would make more sense with a 3.4 TT6 paired with their rear electric differential.

They even used the same damn pictures from 1999 if you look back. Guess not many hints there but like you say the overall body look. Like it better than any recent renderings tho.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

They did throw this out there 12 weeks ago and not sure many caught it or took it serious. Probably already mounted on the 300 chassis... Maybe they photo shopped the axle.. as many clearly shown they like to do.
View attachment 3349362
And look,,,, it DOES have a tail gate, not only that its extra large!! lol

View attachment 3349364
the 5 lug thing is throwing this theory off tho... Oh and IRS. photoshop
View attachment 3349366

Reminds me of the 1947 Willys.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

"It all started in 1979 when the Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40 was discontinued. The person who arguably reacted the most was Jack Safro, a Toyota dealer in Brookfield, Wisconsin.

Like many car fanatics, Safro took a vehicle he really liked (the Land Cruiser FJ40) and dreamt up his own version of it. However, unlike many car fanatics, Safro actually turned his fantasy into reality. He brought his concept to Winnebago and sold it so well that it was approved. Toyota was eventually brought into the mix and, after collaboration between the two companies, production of the Toyota Trekker began in 1981."

Does that make it a successor? replacement? Whatever semantics we use - it clearly was the replacement product.

Other than the FJ40 didn't get discontinued in 1979 and the Trekker was built while a new FJ40 was still available at dealers. I suppose it's possible he heard they were discontinuing the FJ40 in the US market (4) years later but that doesn't add up in my head.

I do agree the 4Runner was a similar market successor to some in the US. However the Prado/Surf were sold side-by-side with the more widely accepted successor, the HD 70 Series. For example one could buy a 22R powered RJ70 with the light duty engine, trans, steering, axles, etc... and still get the BJ70, the direct replacement for the FJ40.

Not my favorite chart but it kinda walks the line. We have a better one from TMC at the museum

 

[Jetboy]

Other than the FJ40 didn't get discontinued in 1979 and the Trekker was built while a new FJ40 was still available at dealers. I suppose it's possible he heard they were discontinuing the FJ40 in the US market (4) years later but that doesn't add up in my head.

I do agree the 4Runner was a similar market successor to some in the US. However the Prado/Surf were sold side-by-side with the more widely accepted successor, the HD 70 Series. For example one could buy a 22R powered RJ70 with the light duty engine, trans, steering, axles, etc... and still get the BJ70, the direct replacement for the FJ40.

Not my favorite chart but it kinda walks the line. We have a better one from TMC at the museum

View attachment 3349407

It's hard to know how that played out back then. From what I can tell, the guy who claimed to have crated it with Winnebago is dead. One historical claim is that there was a Toyota exc named Tohasheau who was involved in creation of the Trekker as a joint venture type deal. That seems to make more sense because Toyota provided the matching fabric and interior materials for the seats to be built and the base vehicles for it. My dad worked at Winnebago around that time. I've never asked if knew about it. It was sold as a Winnebago product initially rather than a Toyota model. There's a few early magazine articles and advertisements for it as a Winnebago vehicle.

It makes a lot more sense to me that the FJ40 ended in 83 and 4Runner introduced in 84 to replace it the next model year. It's possible that they told dealers 3 years ahead of time that they were discontinuing the FJ40 line. On one hand - why else would they start building a replacement? On the other hand - I agree that it seems unlikely for even Toyota to know in advance that they were ending production that far out when they didn't have a clear replacement in the pipeline.

The other part that doesn't make as much sense is that the FJ60 wasn't functionally all that different from a Trekker. And it was objectively better at carrying 4 people. I can see why you'd build a 1st gen 4Runner to replace the FJ40. That's an obvious connection. The Bronco and Blazers of that era were popular and very similar in concept. But the Trekker with a fixed top doesn't really do anything that the FJ55 and FJ60 didn't already do better with the exception of being more fuel efficient. And it appears that they were basically the same price at around $13k in 1983. The FJ40 was about $6k. So why would you buy the Trekker?

 

[Docyota]

A couple observations from Mercedes, Toyota, Lexus (and bmw, Ford, GM). They all (especially Mercedes) offer a dizzying number of options within the same type of car, offering them to nearly the same demographic. There are 2-5 sedans, 3-4 midsize suvs, and 1-2 large suvs for each brand. These wouldn't be in existence if they didn't sell.

It's all about psychology when selling these vehicles. Just like "anchoring" to a certain price (say $80,000) makes a lesser price (say $55,000) seem a lot cheaper than it actually is, having multiple options allows for anchoring a car concept in someone's mind. It makes no sense to offer an NX, RX, long RX, GX, and LX in the Lexus lineup when you could eliminate the GX and long RX for "simplification." But that's not their main goal. Fact is, Lexus sells more total vehicles because they have multiple options that people can make a gentle up, down, or lateral move that fits their lifestyle and preferences after anchoring on one vehicle or another.

Mercedes has their C class with lots of possibilities, E class with lots of packages and options, S class with lots of options, 3 or 4 SUVs that start with G, and of course the veritable G-wagon.

Toyota now has a "Corolla Cross," a rav 4, a highlander, a grand highlander, a 4 runner, a sequoia, and soon a land cruiser that fits somewhere north of Toyota's average vehicle but south of Lexus's average vehicle.

People will buy the Toyota Landcruiser that wouldn't buy a Lexus due to its flashiness. People will get into an entry level NX that would have been better served with a highlander just because it says "Lexus."

They're just offering options, and making good business decisions. They're worth $200 billion dollars, and didn't get there by stupidity.

 

[jayp2]

I'm a big fan of the early pickups. I've owned a 79, 80, and 84. Wish I could have kept them all. For me the 84 was my favorite of the group. It was the luxurious SR5 trim. But they were all very similar as were the 4Runners. I'd consider swapping my FJ40 for a 84/85 4Runner. I've been watching for the right 1st gen 4R to buy. I just like the layout a little better now that I have kids. I have the OEM rear jumper seats in the FJ40 and they're not safe for highway use.

Early 80's extra cab long bed 4x4 was hands down one of the best vehicles I've ever had

22r all day long

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

I still think the best way to segment the market is to base the 4Runner off the Tacoma and the Land Cruiser off the GX. I would tilt the LC more to the off road side of the GX (Overtrail).