I hope the rumors are wrong. If the 4Runner is going to share the same platform I think it should be the one with the Tacoma engine choices. The LC250 really deserves the GX engines.
2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion
- Thread starter monrovia
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
- Status
Rumor is that the 6th Gen 4R will also include the turbocharged 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine. I know I know but that’s the most popular rumor. I honestly don't understand it either.......so let's hope it will be something else.
The locking center diff is the same as any locking diff.
A differential has one input shaft and two output shafts. An open diff allows the power from the input shaft to turn the output shafts, but allows the output shafts to turn at different speeds. The downside of an open diff is that if one shaft has no resistance, then it gets all of the torque -- one wheel in the air spinning furiously and the other wheel doesn't spin.
A center diff is no different -- you have the input shaft from the engine and two output shafts (front and rear driveshafts). When you lock a diff, the two output shafts turn at the same speed. Locking the center diff ensures that the front and rear driveshafts turn at the same speed. No, it doesn't lock all four wheels because you still have the front and rear diffs.
Why do you want a locking center diff? If the front wheels have no traction and you have an open center diff, then the front wheels will spin and the rears won't turn. Locking the center diff means the front and rear driveshafts will turn at the same speed, so if the front wheels have no traction the rear wheels still get some torque.
In order to shift torque side to side, you still need either traction control (cheap solution) or locking front and/or rear diffs (expensive, better solution).
It will be the turbo 2.4. As long as it gets better than the GX's horrifically bad 17 mpg, I will consider it.
And I genuinely appreciate your input on stuff and steering me towards correct p/n and advice when I'm struggling.
I also not disagreeing with your points.....but if buyers dont want what Toyota or any other manufacturer is selling then they're not gonna sell sufficient numbers to cover costs.
Profitabliity is dictated by revenues from sales less cost to produce and sell at its most basic level and I agree the profit margin generally speaking on expensive units is necessarily much greater than entry level vehicles.
But new designs are expensive, new motors/body work/info tainment/software and compliance with federal regs are all expensive not to mention production capacity
Advertising is expensive
Cost associated with stocking parts for repairs for 10 years as per federal law is expensive
The expense column for a new model vs a redesign/facelift is massive
And a land cruiser isnt a land cruiser isnt a land cruiser
Models like various 70 series that go relatively unchanged for upwards of a decade cost less due to lack of need to retool/etc
They've made the 1HZ motor for ~35 years and are still putting them in certain LC's, rinse and repeat with much of the drive train.
Toyota pulled the plug on the NA LC in the last couple years because sub 4000 unit sales in the US of luxury LC's wasnt cutting it.
It appears to me that Toyota is doing largely the same thing they did on last NA version and targeting the same demographic....and expecting a different result
Last edited:
You are focused on US Sales. The $$ that make the Land Cruiser profitable is not the US
In 2021 Toyota sold 9.5 MILION cars worldwide. 400,000 were Land Cruisers. The US bought 3600 of those (meh). That is less than 1% of their global sales of Land Cruisers, why do the care what the US market wants.
In 2019, Toyota announced that they have sold 10M Land Cruisers cumulative since inception. They have not had a hard time selling Land Cruisers and making their profit. It makes it easy for them to upscale what they sell elsewhere and charge a premium for even higher margin.
Even if the new Land Cruiser doesn't sell well here, it will sell like gangbusters everywhere else. Heck, the 300 series sold out and has a waiting list for years internationally.
I also see starving the US market of Land Cruisers as a way to jump start sales when reintroduced
I don't see how their strategy is losing money or a waste of investment
In 2021 Toyota sold 9.5 MILION cars worldwide. 400,000 were Land Cruisers. The US bought 3600 of those (meh). That is less than 1% of their global sales of Land Cruisers, why do the care what the US market wants.
In 2019, Toyota announced that they have sold 10M Land Cruisers cumulative since inception. They have not had a hard time selling Land Cruisers and making their profit. It makes it easy for them to upscale what they sell elsewhere and charge a premium for even higher margin.
Even if the new Land Cruiser doesn't sell well here, it will sell like gangbusters everywhere else. Heck, the 300 series sold out and has a waiting list for years internationally.
I also see starving the US market of Land Cruisers as a way to jump start sales when reintroduced
I don't see how their strategy is losing money or a waste of investment
Cumulative Global Sales of the Toyota Land Cruiser Series Surpass 10 Million Units | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) announces today that cumulative global sales of its Land Cruiser series have surpassed 10 million units. According to Toyota data, cumulative sales stood at 10 million units as of August 31, 2019.
10 million and beyond | Land Cruiser Special Website | Exclusive Product Stories | Toyota Brand | Mobility | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
"A car that enables people to go where they want, when they want, and to return safe and sound." The Land Cruiser is unique in the automobile world.
Land Cruiser by the Numbers | HISTORY | Land Cruiser Special Website | Exclusive Product Stories | Toyota Brand | Mobility | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
Since the launch of the first-generation Toyota Jeep BJ in 1951 up to 2019, cumulative global sales have surpassed 10 million units.
Toyota doesn't make the vehicle people want. It makes the vehicle they need. I'm guessing 90% of Jeep/Bronco customers don't care if the vehicle has a front locker or not - just us off-road nerds do. They buy them for status symbols and to keep up with the Joneses. That's it - most of them would be better served for daily use by a 4Runner or a GX, not to mention better long-term reliability. The Jeep/Bronco is designed to last through the warranty before having problems with lifters, needing turbo replacement, electronics issues, etc.
Personally I can afford a new Bronco or Wrangler but drive a 16-year old GX. It's a much more versatile vehicle and takes a lot of places I have no business going off-road. I'm not going to take a new $65K Bronco off-road and scratch it, and neither are 95% of new Bronco buyers. To them it's just buying a image. I buy a rig to use - and to not leave me stranded - not based on looks, and GX from the aughts offers more usability and utility than a brand new Bronco or Wrangler. Assuming the reliability checks out, so will the new GX.
www.theautopian.com
Personally I can afford a new Bronco or Wrangler but drive a 16-year old GX. It's a much more versatile vehicle and takes a lot of places I have no business going off-road. I'm not going to take a new $65K Bronco off-road and scratch it, and neither are 95% of new Bronco buyers. To them it's just buying a image. I buy a rig to use - and to not leave me stranded - not based on looks, and GX from the aughts offers more usability and utility than a brand new Bronco or Wrangler. Assuming the reliability checks out, so will the new GX.
We’re About To Find Out If The 2024 Lexus GX Will Finally Get The Glory The GX Always Deserved - The Autopian
There are many SUVs, some are more SUV than others, but in my view, the best SUV is the Lexus GX. Now, in 2023, for only the 3rd time in 20 years, Lexus is about to give the world a new best SUV, and while for most of the GX’s lifetime it’s gone largely unnoticed, […]
www.theautopian.com
I take my $60k Land Cruiser 200 offroad and scratched it.
Current GX and LC price trends in US market
www.cargurus.com
www.cargurus.com
Lexus GX Price Trends and Pricing Insights
Track Lexus GX price trends and get real-time, industry leading Lexus GX pricing insights.
www.cargurus.com
Toyota Land Cruiser Price Trends and Pricing Insights
Track Toyota Land Cruiser price trends and get real-time, industry leading Toyota Land Cruiser pricing insights.
www.cargurus.com
200 would end up with body damage on our trails here. Trails are borderline too narrow for a 120.
After a few days to take in all the different commentary, I still like the new GX but am sort of put off by how they are cutting up the trim levels.
The base "Premium" lacks a rear locker and terrain select. Dumb
The panoramic roof is locked into the luxury plus model. Dumb
The two features that interest me are the panoramic roof and Lockers, and are locked into separate trim levels
I guess it really all comes down to where they are at price wise. I feel good at around 65k for the overt trail considering its simply adding a rear locker an mild appearance package. its not like they are running a full-blown fox suspension on it.
You can option Bronco with front and rear lockers, a TTV6, and 35's for 55k, and get a Bronco Raptor in the 80's, Less for f150's variant.
I'm not a ford guy, but if they can come in 20k under what I would prefer from Toyota...
The base "Premium" lacks a rear locker and terrain select. Dumb
The panoramic roof is locked into the luxury plus model. Dumb
The two features that interest me are the panoramic roof and Lockers, and are locked into separate trim levels
I guess it really all comes down to where they are at price wise. I feel good at around 65k for the overt trail considering its simply adding a rear locker an mild appearance package. its not like they are running a full-blown fox suspension on it.
You can option Bronco with front and rear lockers, a TTV6, and 35's for 55k, and get a Bronco Raptor in the 80's, Less for f150's variant.
I'm not a ford guy, but if they can come in 20k under what I would prefer from Toyota...
You can buy a Bronco, but do you feel lucky? There has been thread after thread the last couple of years on the poor quality of the Bronco on bronco6g.com. One article a few months ago discussed "Bronco's abysmal quality" and Ford's effort to make improvements, but they have been saying the same thing for years. I just did a quick google search and could not find that article, I had posted it on the bronco6g.com forum but the admins deleted it, as they do any perceived negative comments about Ford.
This is what came to the top of the search today for "Bronco abysmal quality".
"The abysmal quality of the Ford Motor Company strikes again"
Ford Recalls Bronco Over Safety Concern, Owners Advised Not to Drive Vehicles
Once again with a feeling, Ford's abysmal quality makes the Jeep Wrangler seem like a much better buy than the sixth-gen Bronco
www.autoevolution.com
So sure, the Toyota or Lexus is more money, but you get what you pay for.
Agreed. Lots of people go down the rabbit hole of paying $10-15K less for a domestic vehicle only to regret it later. If you want the 15-year plus reliabillity, go Toyota. My GX is 16-years old and has 170K and I'd drive it to Alaska without thinking twice about it. If you want something that looks great now and plan to unload it in <10 years, get a Ford.You can buy a Bronco, but do you feel lucky? There has been thread after thread the last couple of years on the poor quality of the Bronco on bronco6g.com. One article a few months ago discussed "Bronco's abysmal quality" and Ford's effort to make improvements, but they have been saying the same thing for years. I just did a quick google search and could not find that article, I had posted it on the bronco6g.com forum but the admins deleted it, as they do any perceived negative comments about Ford.
This is what came to the top of the search today for "Bronco abysmal quality".
"The abysmal quality of the Ford Motor Company strikes again"
Ford Recalls Bronco Over Safety Concern, Owners Advised Not to Drive Vehicles
Once again with a feeling, Ford's abysmal quality makes the Jeep Wrangler seem like a much better buy than the sixth-gen Bronco
So sure, the Toyota or Lexus is more money, but you get what you pay for.
Would you do the same in a 2007 Ford Explorer with 170K? Or a 2007 F150?
I’ll offer up some different perspective that often gets asked to someone like myself who has a history of trading out of vehicles every 2 to 4 years. Why does reliability and build quality matter when you are just going to trade out of it so soon? My two Toyota’s (Tundra and 4Runner) have been the most trouble free and well put together vehicles out of the dozen or so daily drivers I have purchased. I’m not including my sports cars in this because they were all pretty trouble free, probably because I used them as weekend warriors and not DD’s.
Even in these small runs of ownership the times I had a Ford, Ram, or GM product there were multiple occasions with them all where they spent at least one night in the shop trying to diagnose a mechanical or electrical problem, fix a recall, or repair something that failed much earlier than it should have. (Things like water pumps, power steering pumps, heater cores, transmissions, etc) None of these items should go within the first 50-60k miles of ownership.
I did leave my 4Runner overnight twice. Once to chase down a undercarriage noise which turned out to be my RCI skid plates rubbing and another time to replace a blown amplifier on the JBL system. I never had a single issue with the Tundra in the 2 years I drove it.
As I sneak up on my 40’s and further from my 20’s my mindset has definitely shifted on what’s important to me in a vehicle with build quality and reliability being at the top. Resale value a close second. All this to say even in the short term these things matter, to me at least. If a domestic brand wants to sell me another vehicle anytime soon they need to build a better product. Plain and simple.
Last edited:
Great context and agreed! Having a vehicle in the shop for anything other than minor things in the first 50-60K, in my opinion, is completely unacceptable. We typically keep our vehicles for 8-10+ years so reliability is very important to our family - and we finally got off the Subaru train (love driving Subies but, let's face it, they are similar to a domestic car), and we have two Toyotas as a result. All based on the exceptional build quality and reliability of my Lexus.
Not to mention the better long-term resale value. I'm betting Broncos will hold their value pretty well (as Jeeps do), but the overall lifecycle cost is probably still lower with a Toyota is reliability is considered.
One certainly increases the reliability odds of nothing happening with a Toyota or Lexus... rare things still can happen.
The water pump on my '12 started a significant leak at around 38k miles and 5 years of age.
The water pump on my '12 started a significant leak at around 38k miles and 5 years of age.
Resale value definitely matters when you go to trade as soon as I have lol. I lost $2k in depreciation on my 4Runner after a little over 2 years and what will be 40k miles once it reaches the dealership taking it off my hands this weekend. Bittersweet.
Yep, not disputing any of that, but this makes my point. Toyota decided they didn't want to give us that "tool" whether from a damage/liability/warranty stand point or just from a "we know best, you actually don't need that". The other manufacturers I named earlier said "we're gonna give you what you want, good luck, try not to break anything". What's ironic is most failures in the 100 series are from the lack of a front locker, wheel slip then sudden traction taking out the diff and the fix is to install a front locker.
- Status
