2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (3 Viewers)

[M1911]

Neither video you posted was about the 250 or official from Toyota. I've seen the photos you are talking about... Not sure how you derive that assumption.

1) both videos were about TNGA-F vehicles.

2) both videos had Toyota engineers speaking to the host, clearly with permission from their bosses at Toyota. These interviews were not unauthorized.

3) Toyota engineers in a video that watched (I think it was one of those two) said that the TNGA-F Platform allows them to scale up or down the gauge of the steel in the frame as needed.

4) Toyota has confirmed that the Tacoma, Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser 300/LX600, and GX550/LC 250 will all be built on variations of the TNGA-F frame. These vehicles have different wheelbases and different weights, so it logically follows that they will have different loads and thus have different strength steel in the frames.

No, I’m not saying that the LC 250 frame is going to be “weak”. I believe the LC250 will be lighter than the LC300 and will have a lighter frame as a result, just as I believe the 2024 Taco will have a lighter frame than the 2024 Tundra. No, this doesn’t concern me. I expect the frames for the LC250 and 4Runner will strong enough for anything I might do.

 

[doublethebass]

So? Toyota would still have to perform the design, engineering, and testing (EPA, etc.) for both automatic and manual transmissions on the 4Runner. The take rate on a manual transmission 4Runner would be very low. My prediction: automatic only for the 4Runner.

you could very well be right - it's low in the Tacoma to begin with - but putting it in both spreads out the costs

 

[M1911]

This article briefly describes how the frame is scaled down.

The Tacoma is built on the same TNGA-F body-on-frame platform used by the Tundra, Sequoia and Land Cruiser. All of those are notably larger than a Tacoma. Shrinking it down mostly boils down to shortening the frame and wheelbase, which resulted in losing a crossmember toward the front, and a way shorter front overhang compared to the bigger trucks. Some of the other crossmembers and mounting points have been tweaked as well, and some sections of those members have slightly thinner gauge steel for cost and weight savings, since the Tacoma is not as large or in need as such heavy-duty capability as the larger vehicles.

MSN

 

[M1911]

you could very well be right - it's low in the Tacoma to begin with - but putting it in both spreads out the costs

Yes and no. There are engineering and testing costs that are additional for each added vehicle. Would the take rate on the 4Runner be enough to pay for those extra costs? I’m skeptical, but time may prove me wrong.

 

[Pura Vida]

Yes and no. There are engineering and testing costs that are additional for each added vehicle. Would the take rate on the 4Runner be enough to pay for those extra costs? I’m skeptical, but time may prove me wrong.

The 4runner prints money for Toyota

 

[M1911]

The 4runner prints money for Toyota

Yes, it Is a profitable vehicle. But that doesn’t answer the pertinent question: would the take rate for manual transmissions on a Toyota 4Runner pay for the extra engineering and homologation costs? We don’t know the answer to that question. Some people think it would. I suspect it would not. But we simply don’t know — we just have hunches, whereas Toyota has data.

Toyota is a disciplined company. They will only put a manual transmission in the 4Runner if they think it will make more money than it costs. Given that Toyota didn’t offer a manual transmission on the 4th and 5th gen 4Runners, I predict that they won’t offer one on the 6th gen either. We will find out soon enough what Toyota’s decision will be.

 

[Pura Vida]

Well they deemed the Tacoma worth it to offer a manual. I think the Tacoma and 4runner draw a similar crowd.

 

[M1911]

Well they deemed the Tacoma worth it to offer a manual. I think the Tacoma and 4runner draw a similar crowd.

So? Toyota offered a manual transmission in the Taco every year between 2003 and 2023, but during each of those years they never offered a manual transmission on the 4Runner.

Fyi. Taco sales are roughly double 4Runner sales.

Personally I think the Taco and 4Runner markets are different. But Toyota has data on that and we just have hunches.

 

[choob]

Pricing doesn't make sense.

How can the hard touch, cloth seat version be only 5k under a GX?

Unless it's the first edition that will be 55k.


Edit: the only market that i know has the current gx and prado has pricing from 46 to 55k usd for prado and 65 to 80+ for the GX so I'm more convinced that the 'starting' price of 55k for the 250 will be the first edition with the other models being cheaper.

 

[Jetboy]

This article briefly describes how the frame is scaled down.

MSN

The problem with the article is that it's not correct factually. The Tacoma has a longer wheelbase in almost all configurations and shares the same track width in some configurations with the LC300. It may have a lighter gauge frame section, but I don't think it'll be very far off if so. It probably only works if it is significantly lighter or has a much lower GVWR. Certainly would be expected to be lighter as compared to the Tundra and Sequoia, which have more comparable wheelbase and heavier weight. Not so much vs the LC300 that has a relatively short span to bridge. Just for simple math - a simply supported beam with uniform load (spread out evenly) at 112" vs 145" - the 145" frame will have slightly more than twice as much deflection as the 112" wheelbase. The Tacoma should have at least as heavy if not heavier frame section than the LC300. The Tundra is probably double that of the LC300.

 

[pawnthatdude]

Unless it's the first edition that will be 55k.

That's definitely not happening.

 

[Specialeyes]

Agree with both of you. The prices are insane, and I won't be first in line. My wife and I do okay for work, but I can't imagine the car payment for an 80k car. Even with 40 down you're looking at a 750+ monthly payment for financing! I don't know how the median car price is 48k unless people are more comfortable than I am being at very high Debt / Income ratio.

They are. So many people in debt up to their eyeballs. Vehicles, furniture, appliances, computers and phones, you name it. I'm not saying I have it all figured out because I don't but at this point in my life the only debt I have is a car note and mortgage and the only reason I haven't paid a car off is because of my buying/trading pattern. Figure I'm better off putting that money into the market and just making sure I am right side up when it comes time to trade in.

 

[Roosevelt T]

The auto loans are retarded...asking a customer to sign a 6-8 year note at some seriously high rates is predatory IMO. At that point, the car is already EOL, and most owners get upside down really fast.

Can't even begin to unpack this... but lets start with the obvious - nobody is forcing them to buy a car.

So? Toyota offered a manual transmission in the Taco every year between 2003 and 2023, but during each of those years they never offered a manual transmission on the 4Runner.

Fyi. Taco sales are roughly double 4Runner sales.

Personally I think the Taco and 4Runner markets are different. But Toyota has data on that and we just have hunches.

I'm with you on this one. Seriously doubt the new T4R gets a manual.

 

[carboncycles]

Can't even begin to unpack this... but lets start with the obvious - nobody is forcing them to buy a car.


I'm with you on this one. Seriously doubt the new T4R gets a manual.

No, but for some odd reason there are folks who have the need to "keep up with the Joneses" or feel the need to portray a certain life-style.

Does nothing for me but I'm not the average person...

 

[NTTD]

There's probably people on this forum who won't be satisfied until Toyota releases a literal open air tractor, that runs on raw crude oil, with no electronics at all, and has a shotgun shell start procedure. Anything else is just too modern and out of touch with their roots.

Woah now, baby steps! I'm not ready for a fancy gunpowder start! Let me keep my hand-crank, I'm good.

Lots of plastic throughout and what's up w/ the randomly placed volume knob?!?

I like the "base" model with the smaller screen because of that. That volume knob looks like an afterthought.

I am not very familiar with when that engine first debuted but assuming it’s first year was back in 1988 could you have said the same as what you have come to know 35 years later? No you couldn’t. I get that the hybrid 4 is full of uncertainty here but isn’t that the case with any new technology? What is a company supposed to do when it’s time for them to move forward?

Exactly

I've seen some good info indicating adequate headroom for those of us that are super tall.

With Toyota recently upscaling and standardizing sunroofs on other models or designing to a 38"-39" headroom figure, I was nervous, but it appears that they've perhaps gone up to 40"+ to accommodate those that are 6'6" tall and more. It's been a long time since I've fit in a Toyota vehicle.

Most recent that I know of is a 2006 Tundra and perhaps I'd swap mine out for this 4Runner+.

Same I'm 6'1" but most of my height is in my torso so headroom is important. This looks good.

It'll be really interesting to see. Presumably the 4Runner will still come with 3 rows since they won't offer in the LC. And probably non-hybrid model. The non-hybrid is more desirable for me. Both for urban and off road use. I use mine as a utility vehicle, not just a commuter. I don't think the space and weight for slightly faster 0-60 is a good trade off for my use. But if I were using it as a commuter and didn't intend to use it to carry big stuff or load up the cargo area for long trips, the hybrid makes more sense. A lot will depend on the 4Runner design and specs.

I've been looking for something that can be a decent milage DD yet still take me out to the middle of the desert or over a mountain.
This seems to check those boxes.

If you guys want to get an idea, go test drive the new IMAX Tundra/Sequoia...

Didn't know these came with IMAX!!! Hope it has 3D too! I'll have to watch the next Avengers in an LC. lol

Yeah, I'm curious why they went with the NIMH battery vs Lithium Ion.. I get it's more "tried and true" but from my limited knowledge of battery technology a pretty huge step backward. It seems a comparatively sized lion battery could have WAY more energy storage and therefore better/stronger electric motor.

Proven reliable and safe platform.
Also availability, lithium is in very high demand and it's only increasing with electrification.

My own speculation - Europe has restricted speed limits while towing. If tow ratings are (at least partially) based on braking, then stopping from 80kph is a lot easier than stopping from 80mph.

Towing at 80mph is freaking crazy IMO.

Maybe I'll just wait for a 105...

That's my unicorn.

The most amazing thing to me about the 21 Sequoia is its turning radius...

My Dad's 2nd gen's turning radius is great. Beats my LC's and even our 2000 4Runner.

Agree with the counterpoint. Even though the cargo capacity is nearly useless with the 3rd row up, having the 3row option greatly helps a night out with the grandparents. Looking at the Lx600 3rd row videos, it looks at least big enough for normal sized teens to fit?

For the first time (since it's been mine) I put the 3rd row in my 80. Those are barely useable and took away most of my storage space.
It is nice for kids but does not compare to to the 2nd gen Sequoia.

I think the "usability" would be similar in the LC.

 

[malden]

Toyota will sell every 250 they make….. in the first year! But starting in the second year when the truth talks, turbos trip, hybrids halt, influencers invert, competitors crow and sales sink, there may be quite a few 250s on a ship heading back to Japan. I was just about to write “there may be quite a few 250s on a ship heading to Timbuktu” but I realized that in Timbuktu the Toyota Landcruiser FJ70 is sold. And “no one” in Timbuktu would want a 250! No one!

“So, keep your powder dry, wait this sad dance out, and above all, make audacious demands of Toyota for a new “road making” Landcruiser machine! If you ever go on Safari in Africa the animals are not hanging out on the side of some nicely packed dirt road wearing signs that say “Shoot Me Please” or striking bold poses for photographers. No. One has to go “off road” as in across and wildly up, over and through the bush “making your own road as you go” to find them! That is Road making. Let the style be Heritage, Modern, Retro or blinking UFO , a Landcruisers got to able to make a Road out of nothing for Road Makers to buy it cause we are not and never will be Followers!”

[That rousing monologue was performed by Al Pacino in the now classic film “Great Turnarounds in Automotive History, the Rebirth of Landcruiser.” Credit: MGM 2026. The performance earned Mr. Pacino an Oscar in 2027 for “Best Actor in a Role Supporting a Timeless but Wayward Brand.”)

 

[Red Beard]

Whatever man I just want a split tailgate.

 

[epaul]

Toyota will sell every 250 they make….. in the first year! But starting in the second year when the truth talks, turbos trip, hybrids halt, influencers invert, competitors crow and sales sink, there may be quite a few 250s on a ship heading back to Japan. I was just about to write “there may be quite a few 250s on a ship heading to Timbuktu” but I realized that in Timbuktu the Toyota Landcruiser FJ70 is sold. And “no one” in Timbuktu would want a 250! No one!

“So, keep your powder dry, wait this sad dance out, and above all, make audacious demands of Toyota for a new “road making” Landcruiser machine! If you ever go on Safari in Africa the animals are not hanging out on the side of some nicely packed dirt road wearing signs that say “Shoot Me Please” or striking bold poses for photographers. No. One has to go “off road” as in across and wildly up, over and through the bush “making your own road as you go” to find them! That is Road making. Let the style be Heritage, Modern, Retro or blinking UFO , a Landcruisers got to able to make a Road out of nothing for Road Makers to buy it cause we are not and never will be Followers!”

[That rousing monologue was performed by Al Pacino in the now classic film “Great Turnarounds in Automotive History, the Rebirth of Landcruiser.” Credit: MGM 2026. The performance earned Mr. Pacino an Oscar in 2027 for “Best Actor in a Role Supporting a Timeless but Wayward Brand.”)

I promise Toyota isn’t selling cars in Timbuktu.

Animals on African safari don’t just hang out next to nicely packed dirt roads, they literally hang out ON them.

 

[carboncycles]

^^^ Love that pic!!!!

I really need to put my travel plans into motion...life is short.

 

[malden]

Animals on African safari don’t just hang out next to nicely packed dirt roads, they literally hang out ON them.

The editors at MGM should have fact checked that better.

In the meantime, I encourage anyone reading this to go on a Safari, visit Africa to experience some of the most wild rides in settings truly beyond belief. You can look at all the photographs or view the films, but when you are there in the moment the beauty of some places is simply beyond the imagination.