200-series Pinnacle of "Land Cruiser" in the States? (1 Viewer)

[TeCKis300]

With the recent GX550 reveal, we now have more clarity into the likely future path "Land Cruiser" will take in the US. Maybe some haven't been following so I'll say it out loud - tea leaves are suggesting that the reintroduction of the future LC here in the states will be based on the Land Cruiser Prado. So the future LC will not be a sister to the 300-series/LX600, but rather using the same foundation for the GX550 just announced.

That's a mental shift for sure. What does Land Cruiser really mean now if not top dog? It's not all bad as the GX550 really has grown into the role (see quote below). Perhaps it's always been a better size for overlanding and off-roading anyways and should see better sales volume?

Will that leave the 200-series as a relative pinnacle in the US "Land Cruiser" lineage. Did values just further go up?

Land Cruiser

Future Land Cruiser

Unobtanium in the US?

Playa playa has entered the ring. Is Lexus attacking this segment head on? Finally?

GX550 Overtrail trim

Tundra V6 TT, 349 HP and 479 TQ
10 speed transmission
33" Toyo AT3 AT (265/70R18) tires on 18" wheels
17 MPG combined
Middle and Rear locker
IFS and solid rear axle
Adaptive Dampers and eKDSS
26, 24, 22 approach, breakover and departure angles
14" touch screen
8k towing capacity

View attachment 3344372

 

[scanavera]

All good questions! I have to say, though, I like the look of the new GX.

 

[40Man]

If the Land Cruiser version has factory locker (maybe front too like the Japanese 300) better clearance/angles, has the same wheelbase as the LC and is just a bit skinnier, it could be a good alternative. A few trails I've been on have been a bit hairy due to the width of the 200. Looks like the engine will provide plenty of power. I guess we will see...

Hopefully the U.S. LC GX also gets the improved traction control of the 300, as it does a much better job than the system on the 200.

 

[Justdoit]

Will that leave the 200-series as a relative pinnacle in the US "Land Cruiser" lineage. Did values just further go up?

Values will go up if perception changes. 200-series has been a relative pinnacle before this release since Toyota stopped bringing LC to the US, except LX 600.
I'm not sure where is the perception change is? New GX was released with turbo engine everyone expected. Actually even better, not the 4 cylinder turbo, but 6.

I think release of GX 550 and possible LC Prado (maybe prado will get 4 cylinder turbo if brought here) will give people more options, with more options prices are less likely to change much. I guess time will tell how heavy the preferences for the new GX 550 platform are and how it shows itself in real world.

Just a thought.

 

[04UZJ100]

I say yes but I’m getting the out.

 

[04UZJ100]

I say yes but I’m getting the out

 

[rusty87]

I read somewhere the new GX wheelbase matches the LC/LX and is now 4" wider. If that's the case, it should be roughly the same size as the 200 series.

 

[AnyMal]

200 is the best hands down in the 2020's. Im just not sure about the next decade.
The TT V6s might turn out to be very reliable. Its just not a "simple" platform anymore.

There are a few other things going on to remember.
The lesser TNGA products are not the 300. Or so ive been told...
The frames are all scaled up / down, reinforced, closed etc as needed.

So as far as a 200s competitions in the USA its the LX. I would have loved to buy one, but you know how it is...
Im just worried about what happens when my current LX feels and looks old.

300 is a nice looking truck IMO, design makes sense, boxy, easily ruggedized.
But no tailgate... No pano roof... No V8... No Hybrid...
Im not sure why anyone would lose sleep over not getting one in USA.
If you have the money, buy a 200 now, and ride it out until the 400. It will easily take you 10 years.

If you need something new now, get the GX. I hope all the LX 600 buyers dont cry too much... I told you many times that it was weak update.

 

[Blackford Oakes]

300 is a nice looking truck IMO, design makes sense, boxy, easily ruggedized.
But no tailgate... No pano roof... No V8... No Hybrid...
Im not sure why anyone would lose sleep over not getting one in USA.
If you have the money, buy a 200 now, and ride it out until the 400. It will easily take you 10 years.

If you need something new now, get the GX. I hope all the LX 600 buyers dont cry too much... I told you many times that it was weak update.

This is exactly how I feel. ... and I have an almost irrational disappointment over the fact that, after all these years, they deleted the tailgate. If the 300 made it over here, that alone would be a disqualifier, if not on principle alone.

I am very impressed with the GX 550. Let's see where the pricing lands...

 

[Specialeyes]

But no tailgate... No pano roof... No V8... No Hybrid...
Im not sure why anyone would lose sleep over not getting one in USA.

I’m not sure why anyone would lose sleep over a pano roof lol. I thought they looked cool but they provide no added function apart from making your interior hot on summer days. My experience with them in my F150 was they are noisy as hell.

If the 300 made it over here I would have opted for one even without the tailgate. Although I admit the tailgate is one of my favorite things about the Land Cruiser.

 

[TeCKis300]

I read somewhere the new GX wheelbase matches the LC/LX and is now 4" wider. If that's the case, it should be roughly the same size as the 200 series.

Good point. Put together some key dimensions and the GX550 has grown a lot, tracking much closer to the 200-series size.

EDIT: adding LX570 specs, adding towing

	GX460	GX550	LC200 / LX570	LX600
Overall Length	4,880mm (192.1")	4,950mm (194.9")	4,950mm (194.9") / 5,080mm (200")	5,095mm (200.6")
Overall Width (w/o mirrors)	1,885mm (74.2")	1,980mm (77.9")	1,970mm (77.9") / 1,981mm (78")	1,991mm (78.4")
Overall Height	1,875mm (73.8")	1,920mm (75.6") 1,935mm (76.2") Overtrail	1,905mm (75") / 1,910mm (75.2")	1,885mm (74.2")
Approach / Breakover / Departure	21°/21°/23°	26°/23°/23° 26°/24°/22° Overtrail	30°/20°/21° LC 32°/24°/21° Heritage / 25°/20°/23° LX AHC N 27°/23°/27° LX AHC H	25°/20°/23° 27.4°/28°/26.3° (AHC H)
Wheelbase	2,789 (109.8")	2,850mm (112.2")	2,850mm (112.2")	2,850mm (112.2")
Track Width Front	1,585mm (62.4")	1,667mm (65.6") 1,687mm (66.4") Overtrail	1,648mm (64.9")	1,646mm (64.8")
Track Width Rear	1,585mm (62.4")	1,668mm (65.7") 1,688mm (66.5") Overtrail	1,643mm (64.7")	1,641mm (64.6")
Tires	265/60R18 (30.5")	265/55R20 (31.5") 265/70R18 Overtrail (32.6")	285/60R18 (31.5") 285/50R20 (31.2")	265/55R20 (31.5") 265/65R18 (31.5")
Curb Weight	5,130 lbs	??	5,953 lbs / 6,208 lbs	5,665 lbs
Towing	6,500 lbs	8,000 lbs	8,100 lbs / 7,000 lbs	8,000 lbs
GVWR	6,600 lbs	??	7,385 lbs / 7,385 lbs	7,230 lbs

 

[desmocruiser]

 

[HSTexan]

I love these kind of hypothetical discussions--especially the ones that might ruffle feathers. On one of our local groups someone made a comparison between the new GX550 dimensions and that of the LC300--it was shockingly similar.

Height: 76.8" for 300---76.2" for GX
Width: 78" for 300---83" for GX (all quote with mirrors so probably closer to the 78" without)
Length: 196.1" for 300---197" for GX
Wheelbase: 112.2" for 300---112.2" for GX

If they intend to bring back the Prado it will be interesting how the size compares as the GX is already almost identical to the big brother 300 series.

But my more controversial opinion which expands on your last question--does the 200 series remain at the pinnacle in the US? IMO the answer has to be yes and I'm going to justify that by echoing what every single other generation of Land Cruiser owners said before us. The 200 series is the last true Land Cruiser (I'm mostly kidding with this).

The Land Cruiser has always been the halo vehicle for Toyota--it has consistently been built to the highest standards with heavier parts, thicker materials, heftier frames, etc. I love the photo that someone posted of a inner tie rod of a 200 series vs a Tacoma and it was a laughable comparison. With Toyota's shift to the TNGA and a more simplified and modular approach to building vehicles I feel as though the lines have been blurred substantially with what set the Land Cruiser apart from other models built off the same TNGA-F platform. This is probably a massively uninformed opinion as I haven't spent much time researching the LC300 since we don't get it here, but I would love to see some breakdowns of the individual parts on a 300 series vs others on the same architecture because that information seems surprisingly difficult to find. Are they still positioned in the line up to be the best of the best or has the shared architecture closed that gap more than ever before?

All that said the majority of the American market doesn't care about getting 10/10ths out of a Land Cruiser and the Prado is better suited to sell well here. I personally love the direction they're going with the GX550 and it seems like that is the common thought. I hope it means if the Prado shows up and it sells well that Toyota considers bringing back the Land Cruiser in some form with the next iteration in another decade or two.

 

[tbisaacs]

Good point. Put together some key dimensions and the GX550 has grown a lot, tracking much closer to the 200-series size.

	GX460	GX550	LC200 / LX570	LX600
Overall Length	4,880mm (192.1")	4,950mm (194.9")	4,950mm (194.9") / 5,080mm (200")	5,095mm (200.6")
Overall Width (w/o mirrors)	1,885mm (74.2")	1,980mm (77.9")	1,970mm (77.9") / 1,981mm (78")	1,991mm (78.4")
Overall Height	1,875mm (73.8")	1,920mm (75.6") 1,935mm (76.2") Overtrail	1,880mm (74") / 1,910mm (75.2")	1,885mm (74.2")
Approach / Breakover / Departure	21°/21°/23°	26°/23°/23° 26°/24°/22° Overtrail	30°/20°/21° LC 32°/24°/21° Heritage / 25°/20°/23° LX AHC N 27°/23°/27° LX AHC H	25°/20°/23° 27.4°/28°/26.3° (AHC H)
Wheelbase	2,789 (109.8")	2,850mm (112.2")	2,850mm (112.2")	2,850mm (112.2")
Track Width Front	1,585mm (62.4")	1,667mm (65.6") 1,687mm (66.4")	1,648mm (64.9")	1,646mm (64.8")
Track Width Rear	1,585mm (62.4")	1,668mm (65.7") 1,688mm (66.5")	1,643mm (64.7")	1,641mm (64.6")
Tires	265/60R18 (30.5")	265/55R20 (31.5") 265/70R18 Overtrail (32.6")	285/50R20 (31.2")	265/55R20 (31.5") 265/65R18 (31.5")
Curb Weight	5,130 lbs	??	5,953lbs / 6,208lbs	5,665 lbs

The 3” wider nonsense for the new Taco fyi was just wheel offset and fender flares.

 

[04UZJ100]

I love these kind of hypothetical discussions--especially the ones that might ruffle feathers. On one of our local groups someone made a comparison between the new GX550 dimensions and that of the LC300--it was shockingly similar.

Height: 76.8" for 300---76.2" for GX
Width: 78" for 300---83" for GX (all quote with mirrors so probably closer to the 78" without)
Length: 196.1" for 300---197" for GX
Wheelbase: 112.2" for 300---112.2" for GX

If they intend to bring back the Prado it will be interesting how the size compares as the GX is already almost identical to the big brother 300 series.

But my more controversial opinion which expands on your last question--does the 200 series remain at the pinnacle in the US? IMO the answer has to be yes and I'm going to justify that by echoing what every single other generation of Land Cruiser owners said before us. The 200 series is the last true Land Cruiser (I'm mostly kidding with this).

The Land Cruiser has always been the halo vehicle for Toyota--it has consistently been built to the highest standards with heavier parts, thicker materials, heftier frames, etc. I love the photo that someone posted of a inner tie rod of a 200 series vs a Tacoma and it was a laughable comparison. With Toyota's shift to the TNGA and a more simplified and modular approach to building vehicles I feel as though the lines have been blurred substantially with what set the Land Cruiser apart from other models built off the same TNGA-F platform. This is probably a massively uninformed opinion as I haven't spent much time researching the LC300 since we don't get it here, but I would love to see some breakdowns of the individual parts on a 300 series vs others on the same architecture because that information seems surprisingly difficult to find. Are they still positioned in the line up to be the best of the best or has the shared architecture closed that gap more than ever before?

All that said the majority of the American market doesn't care about getting 10/10ths out of a Land Cruiser and the Prado is better suited to sell well here. I personally love the direction they're going with the GX550 and it seems like that is the common thought. I hope it means if the Prado shows up and it sells well that Toyota considers bringing back the Land Cruiser in some form with the next iteration in another decade or two.

Where is the tie rod picture - I can't find it.

 

[HSTexan]

Where is the tie rod picture - I can't find it.

I can't believe I still had it bookmarked! It was from the 200 series picture thread from Rob (formerly of Bud Built)

200 series picture thread

Enjoying some fresh powder

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[TeCKis300]

I love these kind of hypothetical discussions--especially the ones that might ruffle feathers. On one of our local groups someone made a comparison between the new GX550 dimensions and that of the LC300--it was shockingly similar.

Height: 76.8" for 300---76.2" for GX
Width: 78" for 300---83" for GX (all quote with mirrors so probably closer to the 78" without)
Length: 196.1" for 300---197" for GX
Wheelbase: 112.2" for 300---112.2" for GX

If they intend to bring back the Prado it will be interesting how the size compares as the GX is already almost identical to the big brother 300 series.

But my more controversial opinion which expands on your last question--does the 200 series remain at the pinnacle in the US? IMO the answer has to be yes and I'm going to justify that by echoing what every single other generation of Land Cruiser owners said before us. The 200 series is the last true Land Cruiser (I'm mostly kidding with this).

The Land Cruiser has always been the halo vehicle for Toyota--it has consistently been built to the highest standards with heavier parts, thicker materials, heftier frames, etc. I love the photo that someone posted of a inner tie rod of a 200 series vs a Tacoma and it was a laughable comparison. With Toyota's shift to the TNGA and a more simplified and modular approach to building vehicles I feel as though the lines have been blurred substantially with what set the Land Cruiser apart from other models built off the same TNGA-F platform. This is probably a massively uninformed opinion as I haven't spent much time researching the LC300 since we don't get it here, but I would love to see some breakdowns of the individual parts on a 300 series vs others on the same architecture because that information seems surprisingly difficult to find. Are they still positioned in the line up to be the best of the best or has the shared architecture closed that gap more than ever before?

All that said the majority of the American market doesn't care about getting 10/10ths out of a Land Cruiser and the Prado is better suited to sell well here. I personally love the direction they're going with the GX550 and it seems like that is the common thought. I hope it means if the Prado shows up and it sells well that Toyota considers bringing back the Land Cruiser in some form with the next iteration in another decade or two.

Likewise, I was surprised once digging into the numbers just how similar in overall dimensions the new GX is to the LC series. All grown up. I was half hoping for tidier dimensions as size can often be a limitation on the trail. Then again, the 200-series size walks a good balance. Other question is how heavy is it going to be as that'll give some clues to core robustness. I suspect it'll be lighter which does have its benefits. I trust Toyota not be on the wrong side of this and for example, build a Bronco that has a glass jaw. From the 300-series curb weight, they did a lot of optimization and I assume it's on par in strength to the 200-series in most ways. The GX will give up some here and I wonder how much.

To clarify TNGA-F, many publications are getting the concept of architecture wrong and assume blanket shared parts and shared chassis. Yes and no. There can and will be a spectrum of parts built to different standards and duty-cycles. Architecture implies commonality of constructs, design, interfaces, etc. The 300-series will definitely have the strongest bespoke chassis compared to a lighter duty 4R for example, while both leverage constructs from the TNGA-F generational architecture. Other sub-systems and components will be scaled to suit.

The 3” wider nonsense for the new Taco fyi was just wheel offset and fender flares.

It's an interesting point that Tinkerers Adventure notes. But I don't take it at face value the way it was presented. Car designs are done as a system rather than looking at components the way consumers do. If the base Taco suspension design and geometry was able to meet the functional and performance requirements set forth in the Trailhunter, then longer arms weren't necessary. It could be that the base design already had more margin than comparable base domestic designs. If you look at the RTI tracker, it suggests that Toyota doesn't often skimp here and most every one of their trucks post strong numbers against the competitive set.

 

[Sandroad]

Introducing a new vehicle into the market in 2024 that gets only 17mpg combined will run into some headwinds, IMHO. I know a Lexus buyer can afford the gas, but overall, I think Lexus would be wise to get the hybrid powertrain in the GX sooner than later.

 

[TeCKis300]

Introducing a new vehicle into the market in 2024 that gets only 17mpg combined will run into some headwinds, IMHO. I know a Lexus buyer can afford the gas, but overall, I think Lexus would be wise to get the hybrid powertrain in the GX sooner than later.

To be fair, 17MPG is for the Trailhunter trim with factory 33" AT tires. The base will eek out more.

The 300-series with a similar driveline is rated at 17/19/22. Hopefully the GX550 sees that or better.

 

[Specialeyes]

To be fair, 17MPG is for the Trailhunter trim with factory 33" AT tires. The base will eek out more.

The 300-series with a similar driveline is rated at 17/19/22. Hopefully the GX550 sees that or better.

There is a trademark out there for a 550H so a hybrid is coming. There is also rumored to be a full EV model of the GX coming to us by 2030. The TNGA-F platform is highly modular from what I have read and Toyota plans to keep it around for the next decade plus.