2.5inch OME lift and Nitto Trail Grapler MT 295/70/18

[saillaw]

Yesterday I had the 2.5" medium duty lift kit installed on my 2003. The kit was supposed to have been ordered from Slee and consist of the following:

Medium Load 2.5" Kit
Part#: ARB1032 - 1075.00
Consist Of:
2 x OME860 Rear Coil Springs
2 x Old Man Emu 60000 Shocks
2 x Old Man Emu 60002 Shocks
2 x Old Man Emu Torsion Bars
1 x Slee Diff Drop Kit

I also had them install the firestone airbags on the rear with a compressor (for towing).

I also purchased 5 Nitto Trail Grappler MT 295/70/18.

Here is a before image (notice coke can for size comparison)

Here is the after image:

My problems:

1) The front tires are rubbing when I am at full lock, it sounds like they are rubbing on metal rather than plastic. The guy who installed them at Discount Tire said they were rubbing on the UCA. I'm recovering from knee surgery to both knees so I couldnt crawl under there to verify.

I thought I had read in other threads that these tires fit with no rubbing. For those that have this combo was there anything you had to do in order to eliminate the rubbing at full lock?

2) The spare tire (34.6 inch tall) doesn't fit back under the car. This is really only a temporary problem since I am one of the BIOR rear bumper group buyers and should be getting the rear bumper with tire swingout in the next month or so. But, I'm wondering if there is an easy fix in the mean time. If not, I'll just leave it strapped down in the back (where it is now).

3) The ride seems very rough to me. I feel every bump and crack in the road. After driving it for about an hour yesterday my neck was sore. This is coming from someone who drives a Subaru WRX STI as a daily driver so I am used to firm rides. But this current ride is brutal.

I assume the ride will become more foregiving when I add weight by installing the front bumper, rear bumper with swings, rock sliders, skid plates, and winch, but is there a cure in the mean time?

I think the shop that installed the lift kit may have over tightened the torsen bars. You can see from the photo above that the front is bulldog (a little higher than the rear). That's with nothing in the back other than the spare. Also, it feels like there is almost zero droop left on the front.

Would easing up on the torsen bars help smooth out the ride, and would it hurt or help the full-lock rubbing issue on the tires?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[pfran42]

Get the 1.25 inch spacers from Carl at Just Differentials.

98+ Toyota Landcruiser & 07+ Tundra 5x150 1.25 Wheel spacers [JTO5X150-1.25] - $175.00 : JTs Parts & Accessories, Justdifferentials.com

Completely solved my issue. Also, take your time installing the spacers so that you get them centered. FYI, I run the exact same wheel and tire size.

As for the ride quality, what did you expect? You installed stiffer springs and torsion bars without increasing sprung weight. It will get much smoother with front and rear bumpers, sliders, a winch and a little time to let all the pieces settle in.

Loosening the TBs won't change the spring rate on them. It will only lower the vehicle and ever-so-slightly change the amount of force needed to put the TBs in motion. In orther words you will notice about a .005% cushier ride.

I usually run my Trail Grapplers at 50 psi, but you will notice a huge difference if you air them down to 44 psi or so.

 

[hoser]

Front end looks way high to me. Measure the front fender lip to the lower edge of the wheel (rim). Then jack the front up and compare measurements. You should have at least 60mm difference/droop. More would be better.

I would not drive it anymore until you find out exactly where it is rubbing. Rubbing on the tread at full lock is tolerable but rubbing constantly on the sidewall is not.

 

[2000UZJ]

3) The ride seems very rough to me. I feel every bump and crack in the road. After driving it for about an hour yesterday my neck was sore. This is coming from someone who drives a Subaru WRX STI as a daily driver so I am used to firm rides. But this current ride is brutal.

I assume the ride will become more foregiving when I add weight by installing the front bumper, rear bumper with swings, rock sliders, skid plates, and winch, but is there a cure in the mean time?

I think the shop that installed the lift kit may have over tightened the torsen bars. You can see from the photo above that the front is bulldog (a little higher than the rear). That's with nothing in the back other than the spare. Also, it feels like there is almost zero droop left on the front.

Would easing up on the torsen bars help smooth out the ride, and would it hurt or help the full-lock rubbing issue on the tires?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

You need to lower the front end, it will not get better until you do so. Your front end is at full droop with the torsion bars still putting load on them. They can't compress at all...

Other than that, it looks so

congrats

EDIT: Just saw Hoser's reply and looked back up and saw about the UCA and rubbing. Do not drive it if you think they are rubbing on the UCA. That is the quickest way to replacing two tires besides driving through a nail factory.

 

[saillaw]

Wow fast posts: this was meant for Pfran on the spacers: Thanks, does it degrade your turning radius by much?

On the UCA rubbing, I tested it quite a bit with the windows down and dont hear any rubbing, or feel any rubbing except when at full lock which becomes a noticable loud rubbing.

I'll take it back to the shop and get them to adjust the torsen bars, thanks for the tips. If it still rubs after that, then I'll order Carl's spacers.

 

[bluecruiser]

you can adjust your turnstops to eliminate 99% of the rubbing at full lock, also. Pretty easy fix. I have the same tire combo and will be getting some spacers. If you take it offroad like you will definitely get some major rubbing with your current setup.

also, your ride is definitely suffering from your lack of droop in the front. When I first had the TrailG's put on I was really surprised how quiet they were and I was coming from the Terra Grappler.

 

[OregonLC]

I'll 2nd what everyone else said about the rake; you want the nose to be down 3/4" - 1" when unloaded or it won't play nice.

I have the same size in Terra's and it does fit in the spare location after removing the OEM hitch. It's tight, but it fits.

 

[pfran42]

Wow fast posts: this was meant for Pfran on the spacers: Thanks, does it degrade your turning radius by much?

On the UCA rubbing, I tested it quite a bit with the windows down and dont hear any rubbing, or feel any rubbing except when at full lock which becomes a noticable loud rubbing.

I'll take it back to the shop and get them to adjust the torsen bars, thanks for the tips. If it still rubs after that, then I'll order Carl's spacers.

I can't remember what this thing was like stock with regards to turning radius. I do know that before the spacers I was very aware of the rub and never went into full lock. Now with the spacers, I don't hesitate to go full lock (so it feels like I have tons of turning radius b/c I shied away from it for so long).

As for what Nick is saying, I think he means constant 100% rubbing (like what Fuzz went through). Your UCA rubbing only happens in loaded full turns so you are safe to drive with this issue as long as you are aware of what is happening and take precautions to limit this behavior. I drove with mine like that for at least 2 months.

Take my word for it. It will rub until you get spacers. The people saying there is no rub are running the Terra Grapplers (not the Trail Grapplers), which have a completely different sidewall profile.

Lastly don't have the shop crank the TBs down too far. It should take 2-3 adjustments to get them perfect. Have them crank them down a full 3 turns and then go driving around for a few miles making sure to do some heavy stops. Speed bumps are also great for settling in the TBs. After your drive, measure top of rim to fender well on all corners (hopefully with a 1/2 tank of gas). Most will say to measure from center of wheel to wheel wells but it is much easier to dial in your ride doing it from top of wheel. You can then measure from center of wheel to top of wheel well after you have everything perfect and share these results so that the people with 16 inch wheels can use this info. When you are finished adjusting, the front measurement should be one inch less than the rear (give or take 1/8-1/4 inch).

 

[Liam]

i would adjust your t-bars down. You look 1 1/2" too high.

 

[jOnathN]

Lowering the front may also reduce the tire rubbing a little. As the front lifts and the control arms drop it pulls the wheels closer to the body (the UCA and LCA move in an arc). If you are only rubbing by a little that may do the trick.

 

[Liam]

Lowering the front may also reduce the tire rubbing a little. As the front lifts and the control arms drop it pulls the wheels closer to the body (the UCA and LCA move in an arc). If you are only rubbing by a little that may do the trick.

i've got 35's Hankook with no spacers and they don't rub..of course my front end is properly drooped.

 

[Brock]

My problems:

1) The front tires are rubbing when I am at full lock, it sounds like they are rubbing on metal rather than plastic. The guy who installed them at Discount Tire said they were rubbing on the UCA. I'm recovering from knee surgery to both knees so I couldnt crawl under there to verify.

I thought I had read in other threads that these tires fit with no rubbing. For those that have this combo was there anything you had to do in order to eliminate the rubbing at full lock?

2) The spare tire (34.6 inch tall) doesn't fit back under the car. This is really only a temporary problem since I am one of the BIOR rear bumper group buyers and should be getting the rear bumper with tire swingout in the next month or so. But, I'm wondering if there is an easy fix in the mean time. If not, I'll just leave it strapped down in the back (where it is now).

3) The ride seems very rough to me. I feel every bump and crack in the road. After driving it for about an hour yesterday my neck was sore. This is coming from someone who drives a Subaru WRX STI as a daily driver so I am used to firm rides. But this current ride is brutal.

I assume the ride will become more foregiving when I add weight by installing the front bumper, rear bumper with swings, rock sliders, skid plates, and winch, but is there a cure in the mean time?

I think the shop that installed the lift kit may have over tightened the torsen bars. You can see from the photo above that the front is bulldog (a little higher than the rear). That's with nothing in the back other than the spare. Also, it feels like there is almost zero droop left on the front.

Would easing up on the torsen bars help smooth out the ride, and would it hurt or help the full-lock rubbing issue on the tires?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

mine only rub offroad or if at full lock with lots of momentum where it causes front end to dive a bit more....but I am running 285x65x18 which are 33x11.50 Yours are closer to 34+ inches at that size I think...so yours will rub more...but can get .25 or .50 wheel spacers to fix that.

for spare tire...it will fit but not as tight as the other....might have to have the back of tire touch the rear sway...and front slightly dipped but still pulled up tight in wheel well....with someone else cranking and you underneath wiggling and helping to CENTER IT IN WHEELWELL STORAGE area...it will fit better. Only takes a little to get out of alignment and stop going up as far as possible.

No idea about your ride though...I have 2.5inch Ironman and it is not harsh at all even with my Nitto Trail Grapplers at 43# rear and 40# front. I think your problem is you have that suspension without enough weight to get it compressing..you are stock all around except tires and suspension. I have BIOR front bumper with 12k winch, BIOR rear bumper with swingout and hi-lift, WKOR sliders...and soon will also add skid plates.

Hopefully it will settle and soften for you...or you can get more weight on the front and rear to help. The rear should be little better as the Nittos are like 90lbs each....which is double the stock tires almost.

Good luck but only thing I can determine is your suspension setup is too stiff for current truck configuration. Towing heavy loads or when you add your front and rear bumpers it should soften the ride some.

Good luck...PM me if you have any questions...you should love those tires especially offroad. I just turned 32,000 miles on mine, rotated every 4k with all 5 tires....and still have over half tread remaining.

 

[jemsec]

With the front high like yours, you have transferred a lot of weight to the rear. Lower it and the difference will be significant. I prefer about 1/2" lower in front. I bet you have pretty strong torque steer when you accelerate hard and it pulls to the right? Lowering the front will correct most of that.

Really made a difference and looks great. Like those tires.

 

[lrowe_csp]

Tim:
Can't wait to see what it all looks like when you get the BIO gear installed. Hope the knees get better soon, been there myself and it isn't fun when you have to have your to crawl under that truck and describe what she is seeing!
Louis

 

[Manhattan]

50 psi? 44 psi? With E rated tires why are you guys running these extremely high pressures? My BFGs are currently at 34 psi. Wear is even. Ride is great. I ran them at 44 for 500 miles of highway (literally exit to exit) and checked the mpg - did this on the return trip at 34 psi - .5 mph delta... on the return trip. I'll chalk that up to other factors (?) but clearly ruled out mpg as a reason to air them up to bricks. The ride difference was HUGE. Not saying this is all or even close to most of your issue saillaw... but it contributes.

 

[Brock]

it is what feels best with least rolling resistance to me with the super aggressive Trail Grappler tread...even tire wear and 30k miles and more than half tread life remaining must be okay....and ride is not rough to me but then I got some weight on both ends.

 

[pfran42]

50 psi? 44 psi? With E rated tires why are you guys running these extremely high pressures? My BFGs are currently at 34 psi. Wear is even. Ride is great. I ran them at 44 for 500 miles of highway (literally exit to exit) and checked the mpg - did this on the return trip at 34 psi - .5 mph delta... on the return trip. I'll chalk that up to other factors (?) but clearly ruled out mpg as a reason to air them up to bricks. The ride difference was HUGE. Not saying this is all or even close to most of your issue saillaw... but it contributes.

At 35 psi my tires feel like they are going to literally roll off the rims. The tires are rated at 80 psi and a lot of people run this tire at 45-50 psi. I tried 42-44 but 50 just feels right given the weight of the vehicle and the volume (34.6 officially, but just a hair short of 35 when I measured).

 

[Chris Sandstorm FJ]

Maybe already said but....

The front end being higher is because the OME set up you have is for the heavy bumper you are going to install...Once installed it will lower and once the shocks settle a bit, it will even out. Guess you gotta get the front bumper sooner then later..


I am new to 100s and have not done a lift yet..Heck I don't even have a 100 yet, picking it up Friday, but I had an FJC and 4runner. All IFS and pretty similar to the 100, except the torsion set up.

I highly recommend after market UCAs. Check the home page on this web site.

As a previous FJC owner, many of us that modded our FJCs, replaced the OEM UCAs with aftermarket ones. Really the main reason to do that is because the OEMs are designed for a factory height and when you lift they tend to angle downward, makes it tough to get back to factory alignment specs...Going with a aftermarket UCA, allows for the lift and should allow you to get back closer to factory specs for alignment..

The bene is that most aftermarket UCA manufacturers also design for larger tires to not rub...With that said I had 35s on my FJC and they rubbed on my LR UCAs also.. Not anything major, just when in extreme turning or when working certain trail features...

The Firestone airbags have been known to have issues. That is why I went with the Air Lift brand. But you might not have any issues at all..

Once the rear bumper is on, it should ride smoother but it will never ride like stock. The set up you have is rated for so much additional weight, so that it holds level.

Since you have the airbags, you could always go with a softer rear coil, for daily driving comfort and then when you load up for a trip or pull a boat, you could pump up your airbags.

Hope this was helpful.

All in all it looks good!

 

[Anthony.L]

I bet you have hardly any front droop right now, those t-bars are really cranked! This will impact the ride quality as well, however you biggest issue is the aftermarket bars/springs with no additional weight. It's going to plain suck until you load her down.

Check the tire pressure, tire shops have a tendency to put 40+ psi in tires which will equal a harsh ride as well. Lowering the pressure to 34-36 psi will help a bunch.

 

[saillaw]

Thanks all,

My wife is dropping the cruiser off at the installer tomorrow to get the torsion bars eased and after to redo the alignment (no charge) I've given instructions to measure it on the ground and in the air before and after the changes so I'll share those results when I get them (in Brazil at the moment so can't watch it get done myself).

I've also ordered Christo's spacers to be on the safe side for rubbing when offroading. The tires are amazingly quiet on road for an MT (quieter than my BFG AT's on my Tundra until 60mph) and they look great too. Can't wait to play with them off road.

And Louis, I can't wait for the bumpers, skid plates and rock crawlers, maybe if we're in Colorado at the same time we'll have to hit some trails!

Coming from an SFA, i suspect it's going to take a while for me to get used to the IFS. I wish there was a reasonable way to increase front travel.