1fzfe vs 1hdFT/FTE

[Heckraiser]

So question is, why is diesel considered better when modified?

Here are the two scenarios:

1) You have an HDJ81, you want more power. Simply turn up the boost, tinker with fuel a little bit and you've increased output by 20% without spending a dime. Want more power? Bolt on a newer turbo, intercooler, make a bigger exhaust and you've now increased output 50-100% with pretty minimal investment and no major reliability tradeoff.

2) You have an FZJ80, you want more power. First you need to piece together a turbo setup--manifold, turbo, piping, do-dads. You will also probably want an intercooler off the bat because the 1fz is sensitive to temperature. Cost of entry $2000-5000 depending on the parts selection. You have increased output by 35%, but that will only be mid-range and high-end power, no change to the low-end. If you want low-end power, you need to get a stand-alone engine computer and a smaller (or perkier) turbo. So that's another few thousand dollars in software and tuning time. Now you have doubled your output, but you've also spent a lot of money, can't pass emissions , and can't get your truck serviced for certain types of work except by someone well-versed in your specific engine computer.

 

[TT33]

OH yeah I see the concept of tunning already turbo-built engine vs engine designed for natural aspiration. i have experience with mods to Toyota and BMW gas engines. My next toy will actually be 3.6 Mezger turbo.

What I see in Lc80 though, problem is USA doesnt get diesel version. That means complete engine swap, to diesel will cost 15-20k. I could pull out 1fzfe and put it back in, I probs could take it appart, rebuild and reassemble (with help of machine shop offcourse, to do their magic on cylinders), but swapping out from gasoline motor to diesel motor, and going through all it involves is beyond my skill. For 5-7k I would be able to bolt on a turbo to 1fzfe. I dont yet have FJZ80, (plan to get in comming winter hopefully). Purpose of this car will be to tow to track about once a month about 5000 pounds, and be able to go on camping/offroading/rock crawling trips probs about 4-5 times a year. And offcourse have it as "truck substitute" to do home depot/lowes runs. For those purposes, with tires 35/37, ( plan to put 4.88/529 gears not sure yet), I feel that about 300-320hp/380-400 torque should be more than enough. Feel it will be reliable and all. As I mentioned in first post, I dont see the benefit of swapping for diesel for my purposes, considering the incredible cost of the project. I do clearly see the benefit of 1hdft if they are obtained at same price, and cheap modification is used, it will provide powerful, reliable platform. And in all honestly, I would probably buy one in USA, if it was available, just cant justify the premium of swap, since this will not be my main vehicle.

I would like to thank you all for clarifying the concept. When I do finally get my FZJ80, first thing I will do is post pics of it. (hopefully will have time next winter, med school takes up lots of time)

 

[dogfishlake]

Compression is perfect 9:1
Valve springs are fine passed 2x stock power
Valves are high quality
And yes there are oil squirters....

The ECU is the problem.

A stock 1FZFE bottom end and head with boost I have no doubt would be fine with 450 crank hp and 550ft/lbs, at least it has been in my truck for 40,000 miles.

In my opinion the diesel (1HD-FT, not FTE) wins when you are talking about electronic reliability, and fuel mileage.

Agree on the ecu problem.

Hopefully a reasonable workaround for the ecu exists. I wish I could say for sure it does but my turbo build has gone off to sleep til the end of summer so I cannot prove a thing, but..

I found a company called Boomslang fabrication and they made me a plug and play harness to parallel a Haltech Elite 750 with my stock ecu. Other than having to dyno tune the truck, the path is clear for more power than you could want (not forgetting the other cutoff points for other upgrades like injectors, fuel pump, etc).

This:

Enables this:

 

[mudgudgeon]

TIL. It's really a shame about the ECU.

Surprised the code hasn't been cracked.
There's got to be other Toyota platforms that share the same code that people have wanted to upgrade.

 

[TT33]

Knowing performance market, "Most" mods are done for cheap small "sport" cars. Celica comes to mind. Numerous ecu upgrades which add whole of 3-4hp for cheap (hey works for college freshman). Now think about this. How many people that actually own Landcruiser will even consider modifying it. Most buy it to haul family and go to grocery store. And even that small portion of people who buy it for offroading, most wont care about lack of power, as 212 hp and 275 tq is more than enough for most people. Just my opinion on why not much ecu upgrades.

But Actually, I was wondering, because for European market, LC105 came with 1fzfe which put down 240 hp and 300 tq. Makes me wonder what is difference? just ecu? if so, why not get one from European car and put it on one in US

 

[scottryana]

Hopefully Boomslang has it all figured out.

I know there was an isolator/resistor we had to install in my setup to quiet down a noisy signal.

Agree on the ecu problem.

Hopefully a reasonable workaround for the ecu exists. I wish I could say for sure it does but my turbo build has gone off to sleep til the end of summer so I cannot prove a thing, but..

I found a company called Boomslang fabrication and they made me a plug and play harness to parallel a Haltech Elite 750 with my stock ecu. Other than having to dyno tune the truck, the path is clear for more power than you could want (not forgetting the other cutoff points for other upgrades like injectors, fuel pump, etc).

This:

View attachment 1724458
View attachment 1724460

Enables this:

View attachment 1724463

 

[scottryana]

Nope not just ECU differences. The GenII 1FZ has a different head, better/bigger intake ports, different pistons, different ignition, etc.

Knowing performance market, "Most" mods are done for cheap small "sport" cars. Celica comes to mind. Numerous ecu upgrades which add whole of 3-4hp for cheap (hey works for college freshman). Now think about this. How many people that actually own Landcruiser will even consider modifying it. Most buy it to haul family and go to grocery store. And even that small portion of people who buy it for offroading, most wont care about lack of power, as 212 hp and 275 tq is more than enough for most people. Just my opinion on why not much ecu upgrades.

But Actually, I was wondering, because for European market, LC105 came with 1fzfe which put down 240 hp and 300 tq. Makes me wonder what is difference? just ecu? if so, why not get one from European car and put it on one in US

 

[TT33]

Nope not just ECU differences. The GenII 1FZ has a different head, better/bigger intake ports, different pistons, different ignition, etc.

Wow, all that is def not worth 20 hp and 30 tq. for the money this will cost, a simple turbo kit should give tripple/quadruple that easy

 

[Dragos80]

Holy mother of Mud!
This guy is turning the forum upside down with his knowledge.

Hold on to your pants, here come gobs of power for the mighty 80. All probably for less than $10, stickers included.

 

[dogfishlake]

Wow, all that is def not worth 20 hp and 30 tq. for the money this will cost, a simple turbo kit should give tripple/quadruple that easy

Not simple at all really. There are many people that own 80's, possibly most, that would really like more power. Every single non-boost gizmo has been tried already, multiple times on the 1fz-fe. Not much of any change, you are beating a dead horse for sure.

Next step- boost.

The trd/magnusson system is a very nice jump, even though it is dated technology. Those systems are now headed for unobtainium.

Choice two is cheap turbo kit. This kind of works but is really counter to the whole reason we love toyotas and especially cruisers- strong engineering, attention to detail and top shelf quality. A cheap turbo doesn't mix.

Choice three is a custom built and well thought quality system done el-solo. Good choice but a wallet smasher (ask me how I know!), so really limits the audience.

Choice four is a quality turbo kit that is well thought out, has quality parts, and is somewhat mass produced by a reputable supplier. Used to be a dream but is nearly to fruition. Enter Wits End.

Choice five is non Toyota swap - 6bt, LS, 2UZ, etc.

Several solutions there but no cold air kits or cat back kits, or chips. Not happenin.

 

[TT33]

Yeah thats what I am saying. Honestly I will probs go with cheap piping and quality propelers, or just get quality kit itself. Should not have problem installing it. I just oppose engine swap for reasons of (too damn difficult and time consuming. Its not just yank it out, and put it back in (if it was that... I would drop Toyota 5.7 in it, no questions about it). Thats why every time I bought a sports car, I always went for engine, as that is what I will be living with (never done motor swap) and weight/distribution. Things like suspension can relatively easily be modified.

Also, I know this been discussed here in many threads, but all of them are old, some over 10 years.
Is there any Portal Boxes which can be put on FJZ80 axles? as in without welding on stock axles? or is there no such thing? ( I know they made them for wrangler, but they cost more than base model lol)

 

[CycloSteve]

Thanks for chiming in Steve @CycloSteve, real numbers can't be argued with. I assume that your driving habits didn't change with the diesel? Well technically it did as you did the shifting at optimum RPMs. Did you ever drive the diesel with EGT gague? Did you find yourself backing down on the skinny pedal when the EGTs were high and so forth? I have to wonder how much impact did the 5sp manual had over the slush box, which are known to be power zappers.

Same driving habits, other than pulling a loaded trailer more often now with the diesel. Have had the EGT since day one of running the diesel, and have tuned the IP to keep the EGTs low. Never have had to let off the skinny pedal to lower the EGT's. The H151F is helpful for getting more power to the ground. Having a GTurbo, intercooler and 3" free-flowing exhaust has definitely helped too.

Better mileage is a bonus, but definitely not the reason to do the swap. I do love being able to drive over 600 miles before even thinking about re-fueling (have the factory sub too).

Hauling the trailer through WA last month with a full load. Basically getting around 17mpg that day, averaging 70mph.

 

[Heckraiser]

@dogfishlake subscribed for boomslang wiring thingymabob updates

 

[alia176]

Same driving habits, other than pulling a loaded trailer more often now with the diesel. Have had the EGT since day one of running the diesel, and have tuned the IP to keep the EGTs low. Never have had to let off the skinny pedal to lower the EGT's. The H151F is helpful for getting more power to the ground. Having a GTurbo, intercooler and 3" free-flowing exhaust has definitely helped too.

Better mileage is a bonus, but definitely not the reason to do the swap. I do love being able to drive over 600 miles before even thinking about re-fueling (have the factory sub too).

Hauling the trailer through WA last month with a full load. Basically getting around 17mpg that day, averaging 70mph.

Steve - thanks for the reply, really helps visualize things in my mind. Does that little light in the cluster telling you to "shift up, damn you"?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Over the last month I experienced some 80 series

1HTD auto

1HTD 5speed

1FZ Safari Turbo auto

1FZ Super Charger auto

1FZ auto


For speed 1FZ Turbo hands down
Smoothest 1FZ auto or 1FZ Turbo
Best Balance 1HTD 5speed
Most hated 1FZ Super Charger
Economy 1HTD 5speed or auto

They all have pluses and minuses IMO but the overall winner for my needs is a 1FZ auto. Although being the slowest and the worst MPG it doesnt smell, its smooth, quiet, reliable, and parts are easy to get just about anywhere in the world.

 

[scottryana]

People don't understand that a turbo works well on these trucks and I think they all assume I am overselling it, because it is MY truck. Haha!

Over the last month I experienced some 80 series

1HTD auto

1HTD 5speed

1FZ Safari Turbo auto

1FZ Super Charger auto

1FZ auto


For speed 1FZ Turbo hands down
Smoothest 1FZ auto or 1FZ Turbo
Best Balance 1HTD 5speed
Most hated 1FZ Super Charger
Economy 1HTD 5speed or auto

They all have pluses and minuses IMO but the overall winner for my needs is a 1FZ. Although being the slowest and the worst MPG it doesnt smell, its smooth, quiet, reliable, and parts are easy to get just about anywhere in the world.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

People don't understand that a turbo works well on these trucks and I think they all assume I am overselling it, because it is MY truck. Haha!

Nope, For me its impossible to drive without pushing hard on the skinny pedal when it hit 2k under normal acceleration, every time.

In your defense its set up properly with an inner cooler and proven matched components and that is the exact reasons I bought my Safari Turbo, proven and reliable.

 

[IanB]

Steve - thanks for the reply, really helps visualize things in my mind. Does that little light in the cluster telling you to "shift up, damn you"?

The amber dash light comes on whenever boost exceeds about 14psi.

 

[TT33]

Over the last month I experienced some 80 series

1HTD auto

1HTD 5speed

1FZ Safari Turbo auto

1FZ Super Charger auto

1FZ auto


For speed 1FZ Turbo hands down
Smoothest 1FZ auto or 1FZ Turbo
Best Balance 1HTD 5speed
Most hated 1FZ Super Charger
Economy 1HTD 5speed or auto

They all have pluses and minuses IMO but the overall winner for my needs is a 1FZ auto. Although being the slowest and the worst MPG it doesnt smell, its smooth, quiet, reliable, and parts are easy to get just about anywhere in the world.

Why Supercharged most hated? theoretically that should be most smoothest and balanced power gain (basically small turbo without the lag). What was bad about it?

 

[alia176]

Nope, For me its impossible to drive without pushing hard on the skinny pedal when it hit 2k under normal acceleration, every time.

In your defense its set up properly with an inner cooler and proven matched components and that is the exact reasons I bought my Safari Turbo, proven and reliable.

Phil, you now have a Safari Turbo 80 IIRC but are you using it or does the White one get all the love? Or, are they both White?