1FZ-FE Thoughts/Clarification (2 Viewers)

[midknightc3]

I have enjoyed my time in the slow lane for the last 13 years or so, but nearly getting run over by semi's any time I venture out onto I40 is wearing thin. My 2F head has been done twice and I think someone screwed it up along the way as I'm burning oil and don't feel like I am getting nearly the HP (skimpy as it may be normally) that others seem to from their 2F's with a Sniper setup (and definitely not the MPG). I have been toying with the concept of a 1HD-T, but that is of course quite pricy and more complicated given parts aren't always available here. Chevy of course is the simplest/cheapest for getting good MPG and HP, but I love the manners of my inline engines off road.

While I was in talking to a shop in town I would trust with any such swap, the owner mentioned he has two 1FZ-FE's (one long and one short block) sitting on a shelf and he wants them gone. This seems to make the idea of a 1FZ swap that much more appealing, and potentially competitive price wise with a Chevy. As it turns out, the long block is actually out of a friend of mines truck, so I know it's a 1996 1FZ-FE. Mechanic is certain he can dredge up the wiring harness as well as computer to go with it. I have spent lots of time reading through numerous threads and learned lots from the likes of @dogfishlake @Tapage @elripster @Zoverlander and many others, however some key questions often wind up unanswered as the swap never happens or the person gets busy swapping and stops posting. I currently have a good, tight H55F behind my 2F with a good t-case, making it far more desirable to me than trying to source an H150/H151 (and yes, I'm dead set on staying manual, I just enjoy them more).

• The FJ Co reported they had an adapter bell housing for this, but it isn't listed on their website and they state they won't sell anything not listed. I sent an inquiry, but don't have much hope of a positive response. It has been reported elsewhere that 31111-60230 is a bell housing that will work, though possibly with some additional drilling/tapping. Can anyone confirm/deny/expand on this?

• On the subject of H55F vs H150 (I would prefer the lower gears of the H150) I see much discussion about the H150 being a stouter transmission. This may be factually true, but is the H55F TOO weak, or just not as strong as an H150 yet will hold up just fine for a moderate driver running 255/85 R16's? Seems that if the FJ Co is putting the H55F behind their $250k builds, they have determined this is a plenty stout tranny?

• For the computer, it sounds easy enough to trick the AT computers into thinking the tranny is in neutral and then they work just fine with a manual gear box. Would there be anything to be gained by forking out the moula for an MT computer out of Australia, or just stick with the AT computer sitting on my mechanics shelf?

• Speaking of HP, it seems that if the 2F puts out 134HP and was just acceptable, the 212HP of a 1FZ-FE would be plenty. The long block available would receive a complete teardown and rebuild, bringing the possibility of some gains from that (sorry, I'm just a shade tree mechanic and don't know exactly what gains, that's why I'd have the shop do all this). My guy seems to think maybe 250HP would be pretty reasonable to expect?
  • I've heard of putting turbo's on these engines, but my main goal is reliability in the back country with comfort on the highway. I WANT more HP of course, but would a turbo further reduce MPG or would it potentially increase power enough that I'm staying off the gas at 70MPH and therefore actually increase MPG? What sort of MPG does a 1FZ powered FJ60 get, anyway?

Coppied from an FJ Co post of a few years ago, they list out PN's needed for this match up, which seems to get me a good start on parts procurement other than the above mentioned questions.
Flywheel (FZJ70) : 13405-66020
Clutch Disc : 31250-36343
Clutch Cover (PP) : 31210-36330
Slave Cylinder : 31470-60171
Pilot bearing : 90363-15017
Release Fork : 31204-36110
T/O Bearing : 31230-60130

You can substitute with Aisin and such parts elsewhere online.

Furthermore, our latest iteration from The FJ Co utilizes OBD1 Computers intended for M/T applications (non-US). We then attach a H55F using the above mentioned parts, as well as a brand new OEM split case. For the VSS we utilize a 83181-20040 80 series sensor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with an H55F, I wouldn't be able to use this VSS, right?

Thanks for any and all input on this!
Clark White

 

[tmxmotorsports]

 

[tmxmotorsports]

I know of a couple ways to get vss on the split case.

 

[Godwin]

A thought. What about a 1FZ instead of a 1FZ-FE? Go with the carbed version and keep it simple. You'd need to source an intake and carb from overseas, and maybe a head, but you would not have to deal with an ECU and the additional wiring.

 

[OSS]

There is a somewhat arguable consensus on the 80's forum that the FZJ80 is underpowered and guys over there want a more powerful vehicle, Thats the 80 with the 1FZ-FE engine, not the 3FE.

Granted the 1FZ-FE engine is more powerful than a 2F, but it may not give you an orgasm - after all that hard work and money spent.

Gotta wonder why anyone would have extras lying around. Somebody didn't want it because...?

Decades ago, I asked Marv Specter (of Specter Offroad) about doing what you're talking about - and he said right off - "It would be more trouble than its worth."

 

[Fj80oregon]

@FJ60Cam has completed this swap, don’t think he had any posts on mud about it. Pretty sure it was not an easy swap but well worth after completion. On the 1fz note you’re not getting any more power out of a rebuilt engine unless you are doing more than normal work. Granted it will be fresh and making that 212HP.

 

[PIP]

Seems like it would be simplest/best to install the whole 1FZ-FE, A343, HF2AV into a 60 series. Or better yet, set the 60 series body on the complete 80 series Chassis.

 

[OSS]

I hemmed & hawed over this topic literally for decades.
My Conclusion:
Buy a used 80

 

[Devils Paw 80]

A 1FZ-FE powered wagon would be my dream 60 series. Regarding the question about MPG, Toyota says this engine is 10% more fuel efficient than the older 2F/3F.

A manual would be nice, but not sure it'd be worth all the extra work and cost for me.

 

[midknightc3]

For the sake of running ideas through to conclusion I'm going to play devils advocate here, not specifically trying to be argumentative with anyone since I really don't know what I'm talking about and have never attempted any sort of engine swap.

@tmxmotorsports would getting a VSS into the split case make things run smoother for the ECU that you know of?

@Godwin 1FZ is an interesting thought. I knew that was a thing in the rest of the world but hadn't really considered it. I'll have to read up on that and see what it's output is. Would definitely simplify wiring!

@OSS and @PIP I have read many of the same things about 80's feeling under powered, and my buddy who's engine I am staring at says the same thing. However, I'v also read that putting a manual gear box really livens up the engine, which makes me think it's the A343 sucking power. Seems like 78HP would have to be better down the highway? That and the FJ60 being (from what I have found) ~1000lbs lighter than a similar FJ80. From a planning stand point, A343 is certainly simpler than adapting, but I also just really enjoy manual trannys even if an auto is simpler/easier. As to why there are engines laying around, the long block from by buddies truck is seized and it was faster/cheaper for him to buy the running engine from my mechanics FZJ80 than to rebuild it. Mechanic was selling because he put a Chevy in his 80. Not sure on the story for the short block, but I think another Chevy swap and the head got sold to someone who just needed the top end.

@Fj80oregon I am assuming he would increase the bore and/or shave the head during the rebuild? Makes sense that a 1:1 rebuild wouldn't increase anything. I guess even with only 212HP, that gets me 78+HP more (I don't think I'm getting my 134HP currently) which would have to get me down the road better?

@Devils Paw 80 10% increase in economy only equals 1mpg, which is probably about right. I know 80's aren't really much better than 60's, but I was hoping!

Thank you all for your thoughts thus far!
Clark

 

[Godwin]

@Godwin 1FZ is an interesting thought. I knew that was a thing in the rest of the world but hadn't really considered it. I'll have to read up on that and see what it's output is. Would definitely simplify wiring!

70 series forum is the place to read up on the 1FZ. I'm tagging @wngrog as he's had a few come through his shop and could offer first hand experience.

 

[Devils Paw 80]

There is a somewhat arguable consensus on the 80's forum that the FZJ80 is underpowered and guys over there want a more powerful vehicle, Thats the 80 with the 1FZ-FE engine, not the 3FE...

It seems overpowered compared to my previous FJ62. In a lighter weight, part time 4WD 60 series this engine should really wake up the wagon's performance, especially with a manual transmission.

Not sure the tag for @wngrog went through above. I remember reading about a 45 he built with the FZ-FE. In that one he put a sniper fuel injection kit on it.

 

[wngrog]

It seems overpowered compared to my previous FJ62. In a lighter weight, part time 4WD 60 series this engine should really wake up the wagon's performance, especially with a manual transmission.

Not sure the tag for @wngrog went through above. I remember reading about a 45 he built with the FZ-FE. In that one he put a sniper fuel injection kit on it.

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• jomelo
• saginaw
• Replies: 1,701
• Forum: 40- / 55-Series Tech

• 
• 

Last I heard the FJco bellhousing was NLA

I'd rather have a H150/151/152 all day every day over a H55. Shifts so much better.

I absolutely love my carbureted 1FZ trucks. Amazing. Simple. Fast.

 

[tmxmotorsports]

Vss is needed on ls swapping that i do but I'm unsure about the 1fz ecu needing vss input it may.

 

[OGBeno]

Builds Thread '1964 FJ45 Short Bed Fixed Top Pickup Restoration'

Feb 28, 2020

I’m an addict.

Last week @wngrog finished up Project Mustard. It turned out fantastic and I absolutely love it. That project was very much an impulse buy - I woke up one morning and decided I needed another project and it just so happened that @thecrazygreek had listed the Mustard for sale. Well....as Nolen was wrapping up Mustard I started to get the impulse to start another project.

A week or so ago Nolen sent me a for sale ad on a 1964 short bed fixed top 45 series. I initially scoffed at the idea but the truck sort of stuck in my head. It would not go away. So as I was...

• jomelo
• saginaw
• Replies: 1,701
• Forum: 40- / 55-Series Tech

• 
• 

Last I heard the FJco bellhousing was NLA

I'd rather have a H150/151/152 all day every day over a H55. Shifts so much better.

I absolutely love my carbureted 1FZ trucks. Amazing. Simple. Fast.

100%. The H55 is a waste of time with the H15x iterations still available used/new.

And with turbo options available on the market, one can easily make this a rocket ship.

 

[WILLD420]

Couple of thoughts to start.

You need to look at area under the curve before you go all in on this. You need to be very specific on what you want and what you are willing to give up to make this a go. Another big question is smog compatibility and your expectations for use.

While I agree a manual trans is superior in every way to older automatics, the new ones are impressive, just not all that durable in stock form. I too would rather row my own gears in a traveling or towing rig, but for a wheeling rig, the auto's have some real advantages in technical situations. Personally, I would stick with the H55 and go with an engine that can be readily adapted to it rather than do an entire drive train swap.

Regarding the specs of the 1FZ in naturally aspirated form, the HP increases are nice, but the area under the curves are not all that impressive when you get right down to it. In my experience, even with a stock 80 series, it is a significant upgrade over an F based motor, but they are still slow compared to a V8 swap. Although there is quite a difference between a 1FZ and a 2F, it is not on the order of magnitude like a turbo diesel or V8 swap.

You need to be realistic in your expectations. A 1FZ is a good upgrade, but it is still a 4.5 liter motor that was tuned to run 250K miles while being so smooth that a luxury vehicle owner would never complain. That sounds great, until you realize that the average American vehicle of a similar weight to your 60 and better aerodynamics will be running a 4.6 to 6.6 liter V8, a turbo charged 3.5 V6 or a turbo 2.7L Inline four with four, six, eight or ten gears in the transmission.

With that said, either putting a turbo on your Toyota inline motors, or swapping engines to a much larger cubic inch V8 is basically your only sensible option to push that brick at modern freeway speeds, since a N/A 2F was never intended for freeway use at our speeds. As for durability with a turbo, the 2F only has 4 main bearings and will be operating at double it's designed in power level if you go that route with a sub-standard cooling system that will weigh 200 lbs more than a modern V8 .

If money is no object and you don't mind the work, then the 1FZ with a blow thru turbo setup with a throttle body injection would probably be the easiest way to get the power levels you want. The longer tube oem fuel injection manifold would be better for torque, but the complexity might not be worth the work. As for transmissions, the factory automatics behind the 1FZ would hold up to that power level quite well, but the electronics to make them work are an issue to overcome.

As much as I hate the idea of an LS motor, they truly are impressive pieces of engineering. Done right, they have incredible power, done well, they have impressive durability. They are light years ahead of F-motor design and are more durable, efficient and powerful.

 

[dbleon]

Just fork up the $ for the diesel or a 2uz swap.. or LS.. if you’re going to the effort you might as well get something good under the hood

 

[elripster]

I am very interested in how this turns out. When the 2F in my 60 goes, this is the swap I would do. Having done the 3FE swap, I didn't need to trick the ECU or feed it speed. The engine runs fine in park, neutral, etc... In fact, since the 80 is AWD, the emissions test is done in Park so the engine has to run properly in Park. Unless you have cruise control, the engine cares how fast it is spinning, not how fast the vehicle is going.

I have a 60 with a nicely running 2F, DUI distributor, 3FE manifolds, larger exhaust, 4.56's on 35s and a 94 80, 4.88's, on 38s (large 37's). Both trucks have the front/rear bumpers and the 80 sliders. The 80 smokes the 60. It will cruise at 80MPH and pulls hills out here on I15 at 75+. The 60 is lighter than the 80 and without the parasitic losses of those older automatic transmissions, you will simply have more power going to the wheels than the 80 has without the annoyingly large gap between gears that the 80 has to deal with. I think you will really like the performance gain and might even help with long term value since its keeping the truck all Toyota.

Good luck!!!

Frank