1FZ-FE ARP Head Studs Installed with Part# (1 Viewer)

[NLXTACY]

please comment on the disadvantages of using ARP studs in a normally aspirated motor !!!! ( if they are the correct size )

Zero issues. Technically I'm NA but eventually the SC is going on now that the engine is broken in.

 

[Bogart]

How many of the ARP users have gone back in and re-tourqued after a heat cycle as advised? And please clarify the trimming of the front two studs for clearance for the opel kit? best way to trim?

Cheers Peter

 

[jcardona1]

I asked ARP about re-torquing and this is what they said:

R e-torque is dependent on the head gasket manufacturers recommendation, as with re-torquing you are trying to compensate for the gaskets initial compensation. It would be recommended to follow what the gasket manufacturer says.

 

[jcardona1]

And this is what scottryana said in my thread regarding a re-torque:

No I wouldn't retorque with stock gasket and stock bolts, I would retorque with stock gasket and "some" ARP bolts especially if I was going FI.

The thought behind needing to retorque is:

As a block and head heat up and expand they will compress a headgasket between them and if the headgasket is made of a material like the stock gasket, this expansion compresses the headgasket more than the force of the initial head bolt torque you now have loose bolts/studs. If you pick a bolt or stud that goes for ultimate hardness it will be stronger, it will produce a higher clamping force, but it will not have the elasticity like a stock bolt to account for the change in thickness. So you need to retorque it.

Rule of thumb - Metal headgasket, decked block and head, high strength fasteners, because the metal headgasket won't compress like a fiber gasket
- Stock like headgasket, better at sealing slight imperfections in block or head, but need a "stretchier" bolt

Hope that makes sense.

I am sure you will be fine, just torque it down to 80ft/lbs and drive it. These trucks aren't producing a lot of cylinder pressure the timing advance isn't super high you aren't adding a bunch of boost, it looks like the ARP studs you picked are not some of the super hard studs like their L19 so I don't think it will be as big of an issue.

 

[Bogart]

Ok, thanks! I am using a toyota OEM ( new) gasket and want to use the ARP as I 'may' go FI at a later date.
So if I torque to spec now, and then if I go FI can I go in and retorque at that time? or is that too late?
also asked about need to trim and how to trim a couple of the 'opel' kit bolts.

Cheers Peter

 

[jcardona1]

Here you go

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=6304743&postcount=128

 

[NLXTACY]

Cometic, no retorque and no trimming

 

[Bogart]

Next question, I am doing the HG in truck, can the head go on with the studs already in? my assumption is head goes on then studs are dropped in and finger tightened?

P

Have searched but a few of these answers are not readily findable!

 

[jamisobe]

Next question, I am doing the HG in truck, can the head go on with the studs already in? my assumption is head goes on then studs are dropped in and finger tightened?

P

Have searched but a few of these answers are not readily findable!

No way you will get the head on with the studs already in so they would have to go in after the head is on.

 

[blkprj80]

Hint: Take one of your old head bolts and grind a "thread chasing cut" in the end of it. Run this in all your bolt holes and test fit each stud in every hole. Especially if you are going to set the head and run the studs as you say.
On the front two, grind 1/4" off the Opel studs to clear the camshaft gears. Then, use a dremel or slitting saw to cut a slot for a flat blade screwdriver. <- I didn't do this, and I hope I don't regret it some day...

Also, those Opel studs bottom out nicely. They have a shoulder and the block is relief cut, down quite a ways actually. Make sure they all go in full depth before you set the head.

 

[Bogart]

Excellent, that last post answered a couple questions in one go, I was concerned about removing the hex portion, but a slot is great a great idea, I was going to chase the threads with a tap but the bolt idea makes sense as well.
Will report back after the head is back on.

Cheers Peter

 

[jcardona1]

Can you just trim the bottom section of the stud? That way you don't lose the hex head? I'm still waiting on my ARP studs to arrive but this is what I was considering...

 

[NLXTACY]

I don't get why the trimming. What year heads require this?

 

[jcardona1]

I don't get why the trimming. What hear heads require this?

Your Opel V6 209-4702 studs didn't require trimming? Everything I've read from folks here on MUD says the front two head bolts need to be trimmed because they'll interfere with the cam gears...the one at the very front in this pic shown as the 'puddle of oil'

 

[landtank]

I might have been the first to use the Opel studs and I had interference issues with the cam gears. So I trimmed them slightly. And I hadn't had the head shaved either. Shaving the head would likely make the interference worse.

Removing material from the other end of the stud won't help as the stud is screwed in until the shoulder seats against the block. So the amount of stud sticking out would be the same as before the trimming.

I've contacted ARP on three occasions about having them make studs to fit out engines. We need a stud that is .25" shorter than the OPELs or .25" longer than the Supras. But after many emails and countless phone calls to the tech none support I've given up each time.

I've even mailed in their tech sheet with all the info for having them custom make the hardware to no avail.

 

[jcardona1]

Removing material from the other end of the stud won't help as the stud is screwed in until the shoulder seats against the block. So the amount of stud sticking out would be the same as before the trimming

Yup, didn't think about that part. Oh well, looks like I'll have to trim the top and add a notch as recommended above...

 

[NLXTACY]

Your Opel V6 209-4702 studs didn't require trimming? Everything I've read from folks here on MUD says the front two head bolts need to be trimmed because they'll interfere with the cam gears...the one at the very front in this pic shown as the 'puddle of oil'

I will ask Martin but nothing I have notes for nor that he mentioned. I will check in with him.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

Have one of these bolt kits coming, might do a pic and document for this thread.

I have a 3mm copper head gasket being cut now, to use with these, and some special sealant we use for the water jackets.
[on a 1800 hp big block running 30+ psi 6/71]

[3mm is 3 times the std head gasket thickness, 1mm for gasket, 1mm fr surface head and block, 1mm for decompress]

We have also flat topped the pistons to go into this one, for a tad more decompress.

Havent decided if we are o ringing this one or not yet.

Will be running around 22-24 psi, with a custom turbo, which i hope will see 20 psi at 2000 rpm.

 

[MS-75]

You guys are making this way too complicated.

The supra studs are .25 inch LONGER than the factory bolts anyway, and once you have engaged thread of over approx 2.5 times* the stud diameter any additional engagement into the block makes absolutely zero difference. In a 1FZ this means that any thread engagement into the block past approx. 27.5mm is of zero benefit.

Thread engagement into the block of the stock 1FZ head bolts is approx. 26mm, whilst the 2JZ studs have thread engagement into the block of approx. 32-33 mm when installed properly. At the nut end of the studs there is absolutely ZERO benefit in having any more than a single thread above the top of the nut.

Just screw the supra studs in to the point where they are just level with the top of the nut and you're away. There is absolutely zero benefit for having the studs bottom out in the hole (especially as the extra depth is a ridiculous 0.25 inch/6mm) - and in fact having them not bottom out is the better set-up.

It's not that hard, don't over-complicate it..............

EDIT - and just to illustrate the point, 2JZ studs, when installed correctly into the 1FZ-FE, are capable of supplying sufficient clamping force to hold the head on a 1FZ-FE when there is sufficient cylinder pressure to cause a stock connecting rod to catastrophically collapse and fail.....(26psi + 150 shot of gas).

* ‘2.5 x fastener diameter’ is a general rule of thumb. It is the distance of thread engagement where past this point there are zero loads on the threads (and in fact the bulk of the load on a fastener is carried by the first ten threads anyway). It differs for various materials, but for cast iron the rule is actually 1.5-2.X Using 2.5 x thread diameter in a cast iron engine block gives an engaged thread length with a significant factor of safety on top as engine block cast iron is not a particularly soft example of the breed. As another illustration, it is of no surprise that the stock head bolts engage approx. 26mm into the block and that the rule of thumb says 27mm is what is required. The 27mm from the 2.5 rule is a fair over calculation of required depth in cast iron, and you can be sure that Toyota put a measurable additional length on the stock bolts as a factor of safety, indicating that the ACTUAL required depth into the 1FZ block is measurably less than the stock head bolt thread engagement of 26mm.

All this discussion and effort around getting head bolts that are 10mm or so longer is a complete waste of time and effort - it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

 

[Clint79]

Have one of these bolt kits coming, might do a pic and document for this thread.

I have a 3mm copper head gasket being cut now, to use with these, and some special sealant we use for the water jackets.
[on a 1800 hp big block running 30+ psi 6/71]

[3mm is 3 times the std head gasket thickness, 1mm for gasket, 1mm fr surface head and block, 1mm for decompress]

We have also flat topped the pistons to go into this one, for a tad more decompress.

Havent decided if we are o ringing this one or not yet.

Will be running around 22-24 psi, with a custom turbo, which i hope will see 20 psi at 2000 rpm.

This custom turbo sounds like something I would like to bolt onto my 1fz.
We're and how do you get the copper gasket made. Is this the strongest material for a gasket.