1997 with Death Wobble? ...help appreciated (1 Viewer)

[mudgudgeon]

I think @jpoole has given a pretty solid run down.

Checking alignment (caster, toe in/out) is a good idea too, at least to eliminate that a a possible cause.

Shocks are another possibility to consider. Again, not going to be what starts it, but if you get an oscillation in the suspension, poor shocks may not control it.

Rear panhard and bushes can contribute too, but most likely front end related.
A lot of people comment that fitting a rear panhard drop bracket makes a big difference to handling for lifted 80s.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Not to add to the ...
...but this guy...

Yeah, but nah.

Can't give old mate that much credibility.

Didn't watch it all, but he's off base on a bunch of stuff.

Anyone who promotes an RTC damper as a solution is barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Woofythewolf]

Yeah, but nah.

Can't give old mate that much credibility.

Didn't watch it all, but he's off base on a bunch of stuff.

Anyone who promotes an RTC damper as a solution is barking up the wrong tree.

Yeah I noticed he said his diff angle was "fixed" with bushings... on a maybe 6" lift. Not how that works.

Those are 35s with a LOT of room between them and the fenders, I'd bet his caster is way off, maybe even negative still.

Edit: unless he has drop brackets maybe, but he should've mentioned those if he had them...

 

[mudgudgeon]

Yeah I noticed he said his diff angle was "fixed" with bushings... on a maybe 6" lift. Not how that works.

Those are 35s with a LOT of room between them and the fenders, I'd bet his caster is way off, maybe even negative still.

Yep, said it was sorted, but didn't have alignment checked.
Even with 2" lift, correction bushes won't fix caster

 

[Fairgame]

Try swapping your wheels around. You may also have a distorted rim?

 

[Wrencher93]

Try swapping your wheels around. You may also have a distorted rim?

You may be on to something here, as well as the other members who mentioned tires. I'm using my 80 as a daily right now because my wife has need of our other vehicle during work hours. The wobble itself is gone. Panhard bushings and new TRE's put it in check - but the vibration and steering wheel wagging that preceeded the wobble is still there at times. I noticed when I parked at work that I may have thrown a wheel weight on one of the front tires. Going to have them re-balanced and see if that helps the vibes. I should also mention that my caster plates have only been on for a few thousand miles/ few months so maybe part of the vibration I'm feeling is coming from disgruntled u-joints that now sit at a better but different angle? Should probably grease my drive shafts and see if that helps any. ...regardless, the steering shimmy while in turns is definitely not driveshaft. So something is up. At this point I think the remaining issue is tire related. Still glad I fixed the panhard though. It needed it.

 

[MickeyB]

I think @jpoole has given a pretty solid run down.

Checking alignment (caster, toe in/out) is a good idea too, at least to eliminate that a a possible cause.

Shocks are another possibility to consider. Again, not going to be what starts it, but if you get an oscillation in the suspension, poor shocks may not control it.

Rear panhard and bushes can contribute too, but most likely front end related.
A lot of people comment that fitting a rear panhard drop bracket makes a big difference to handling for lifted 80s.

I did the delta panhard LIFT bracket on mine. Couldn’t tell a difference. I don’t really remember a darting back and forth either. Based on the video posted earlier . Seems pretty simple:

1. Balance and rotate tires
2. Replace steering damper
3. Wheel alignment

Your going to have to figure out the steering gear box as well. I put a new one and mine and what difference.

 

[Wrencher93]

I did the delta panhard LIFT bracket on mine. Couldn’t tell a difference. I don’t really remember a darting back and forth either. Based on the video posted earlier . Seems pretty simple:

1. Balance and rotate tires
2. Replace steering damper
3. Wheel alignment

Your going to have to figure out the steering gear box as well. I put a new one and mine and what difference.

Not sure that video was really all that helpful. I prefer to rely on advice from forum members that have been around a bit. As far as tires, I'm having them rebalanced. I will also have caster checked. Steering damper is being replaced even though that has been ruled out by previous discussion. And any alignment I will likely do myself since the in/out is really all there is on an 80. I'm not paying someone to turn the tie rod a few times with a pipe wrench....

 

[jpoole]

Share you alignment #s when you get them and you'll get some good input here I'm sure.

FYI, my 80 is currently low on caster at half a degree or so instead of 2-4 degrees as it should be. I will be correcting the caster but currently if I reduce toe-in too much I get a wobble whenever I hit bumps on the road while going 20mph or faster. I added a light touch of toe-in until that wobble went away to make the truck more driveable until I can adjust the caster. All else is tight and tires are all good/etc. Just wanted to share another data point re caster. Hopefully you have more than 2 degrees and can rule this out

I can also share real death wobble stories from my old Willy's flat fender jeeps that have lived in various states of disrepair. You can typically settle them down with adjustments, even if you keep running the old tires and worn out components, but you have to be thoughtful/careful about how you operate them of course (slowly!). This is not the approach I'd recommend though, esp. for a vehicle that operates on public roads which my Jeeps have not.

 

[MickeyB]

The point of the video was to do the easy things first, but why do that when you can do really labor intensive and hard things first. As for the alignment your not paying someone to turn a wrench your paying for the measurements of caster and camber from a machine. But yeah just do your own. I also attached a pic of the FSM to help you since you like to do whatever you read on the internet. My last piece of advice which you not going g to do is take it to a Toyota dealership. They have some old school mechanics that know a lot about these vehicles and can help you pinpoint whats going on.

 

[Wrencher93]

The point of the video was to do the easy things first, but why do that when you can do really labor intensive and hard things first. As for the alignment your not paying someone to turn a wrench your paying for the measurements of caster and camber from a machine. But yeah just do your own. I also attached a pic of the FSM to help you since you like to do whatever you read on the internet. My last piece of advice which you not going g to do is take it to a Toyota dealership. They have some old school mechanics that know a lot about these vehicles and can help you pinpoint whats going on.

View attachment 2749278

OK couple of things:
1. I said help was welcome, not rude baseless comments.
2. I own an FSM. You wouldn't know that because you didn't ask.
3. I already said I was going to have caster checked so your comment about not paying someone to turn a wrench is irrelevant.
4. The easy things are being done first. I already had the panhard bushings and the tools to put them in. I'd call that pretty low hanging fruit...

There are a lot of good, knowledgeable people here on mud and I have been helped by more than a few. I'm grateful for that. I also don't claim to be a master mechanic. Everything that I have reiterated has been covered in previous discussion based on real experiences. Why that leads you to believe you're the only one who knows how to tell a good source of information from bad, I don't know.

 

[SNLC]

I have seen death wobble fixed with tire pressure.

I have also seen it caused by some scary worn parts or poorly designed and or installed aftermarket parts.

Cheers

 

[SNLC]

Yeah, but nah.

Can't give old mate that much credibility.

Didn't watch it all, but he's off base on a bunch of stuff.

Anyone who promotes an RTC damper as a solution is barking up the wrong tree.

This RTC dampers never caught on over here. They were all the rage in Oz what 15yrs ago?

Steering RTC on it’s own with good caster and not worn out components.

Cheers

 

[mudgudgeon]

The point of the video was to do the easy things first

If you think that video was worth the bandwidth it used, my condolences on the condition of your 80! Present, or future.

There's numerous errors and poor information in what he talked about in the first handful of items. He's offering band aids, not solutions. Don't believe everything you see on YouTube

The FSM is not the be all and end all. Not are the majority of Toyota dealerships.

 

[mudgudgeon]

This RTC dampers never caught on over here. They were all the rage in Oz what 15yrs ago?

Steering RTC on it’s own with good caster and not worn out components.

Cheers

Yup, people still think they are the way to go because they had so much publicity in 4x4 mags over here

My thoughts on them here

Post in thread 'Steering dampers - OEM or aftermarket and why - std type or RTC and why' Steering dampers - OEM or aftermarket and why - std type or RTC and why - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/steering-dampers-oem-or-aftermarket-and-why-std-type-or-rtc-and-why.1074648/post-11800661

 

[Wrencher93]

OK so I've known for a while that I had some micro-cracking in my tires. They're getting old. However, never have I ever seen anything like this until now....scale of 1 to "don't drive that": how bad are these? I'm assuming these larger cracks mean the tires are toast.

 

[Zjohnsonua]

Predominant reason for tire cracking is age. Those look way past their useful life. Check their manufacture date, image attached for where to find it. The date is on one side only, usually the whitewall side if you have it. Older than 6 yrs? They're dead. Disagree? Ask Paul Walker.

 

[iptman]

OK so I've known for a while that I had some micro-cracking in my tires. They're getting old. However, never have I ever seen anything like this until now....scale of 1 to "don't drive that": how bad are these? I'm assuming these larger cracks mean the tires are toast.
View attachment 2752429

View attachment 2752430

Uhh....can I double down on tires being the root cause of your death wobble? Yeah, those shouldn't even be used as a spare.

 

[Wrencher93]

Uhh....can I double down on tires being the root cause of your death wobble? Yeah, those shouldn't even be used as a spare.

I hear you. Like I said, the massive tread cracks are a new development. First time I've seen them. Only on one tire but they're all the same age except for one. I knew replacement was going to be needed I was just hoping not to do it now. Looks like I'm buying a set of tires....

 

[Bludozer]

I hear you. Like I said, the massive tread cracks are a new development. First time I've seen them. Only on one tire but they're all the same age except for one. I knew replacement was going to be needed I was just hoping not to do it now. Looks like I'm buying a set of tires....

Even one tire that looks like that definitely could be the cause of the issues you're having. I definitely wouldn't drive on those anymore. Hopefully new rubber fixes it!