1978 LPB Teardown and Rebuild

[Awl_TEQ]

......., only this one was on the road!

Ouch!

Haven't touched it other than I mounted a 315/75 R16 with 4.5" back spacing just to try and decide what tire to go with. I keep waffling back and forth from 33x10.5 to 35x12.5.

33" I can use my stock splits (which I would like to do) but I feel there is a 90% chance I will just end up wanting 35" tires after a short time.

Trouble is 35" tires will pose quite a few challenges with clearance.

1) I will need new rims to get less backspacing. I could buy Procomp rims with 2.5" backspace to push the tire outboard and that would get me enough room to hit the steering limiters where they are set now at least. The pitman arm will still hit the tire though.

2) I will also need more lift. I have already bought a Dakkar 2.5" spring set..... which is not enough for 35" tires. I could extend shackles. Not my first choice but I can laser cut my own anti inversion units to suit and reuse the pins etc from the set I bought. I would weld in a bit of rectangular tube between the plates to stiffen the shackle up. Or buy a new set of spring$.

3) The 35" tires being 12.5 wide will also stick out about 3" past the sheetmetal. This brings up a minor local legal issue of tire coverage and may require some sort of rubber fender flares. Also the rear tire would no longer fit within the wheel well and therefore will decrease the flex allowed at the back by several inches. I am building my own bed and as such I could enlarge the arch in the bed side by about an inch in diameter before structure stops me.


Anyway... here are some pics with a borrowed tire - 315/75R16

This is with the axle on a jackstand and a scissor jack pushing the worn out stock spring down a few inches. I have no idea where my new springs will put the wheel but hopefully about here.



This is with the axle on a jackstand and about 800 pounds in the bed - stock old spring. In this positin there is about 3" before the bump stop hits so in theory it could flex up another 3".



This is the same orientation as the above pic but showing the tire protruding. This is a 4.5" backspace wheel so a 2.5" would stick out another 2".

 

[Awl_TEQ]

a few more pics - same conditions as above

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Right now my plan, which changes daily, is 35x12.5 R17 BFG KM2's mounted on Procomp 17x8 rims with 2.5" BS. Extended shackles. Dakkar 2.5" (springs are already in the garage).

thoughts?



Some justification:

This lovely unit is running the same springs and tires, albeit 18" wheels. I think the shackles don't look extreme.

 

[miker]

wow, that's a nice 45. sits about right and the tire size and wheel combo looks real good. really like the color too, whatever it is. maybe a silver metallic or pearl?

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Yup, really nice unit that one. Here is the link https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-club/450229-troopy-soft-top-restoration-super-mod.html

Was pretty nice before the resto IMO

 

[Chamba]

Some justification:

This lovely unit is running the same springs and tires, albeit 18" wheels. I think the shackles don't look extreme.
View attachment 641246

View attachment 641247

Hi Kevin,

You think these shackles DON'T look extreme?! Wow, what do you think would look extreme: 8"? 9"? 12"? What about a 2' shackle?

I love this troopy and it is truly amazing, but i have always been amazed that such a detailed resto used such rediculous shackles. I can't imagine you doing such a thing.

Josh

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Hi Kevin,

You think these shackles DON'T look extreme?! Wow, what do you think would look extreme: 8"? 9"? 12"? What about a 2' shackle?

I love this troopy and it is truly amazing, but i have always been amazed that such a detailed resto used such rediculous shackles. I can't imagine you doing such a thing.

Josh

Hey Josh! Long time. I freely admit to an under-abundance of knowledge about shackles. My limited research tells me that compared to stock a lifted spring is shorter from eye to eye which requires a longer shackle to keep the shackle from inverting. Unless the spring manufacturer makes the main leaf longer. I'd have to go and check but I'm sure my new shackles are an inch or two longer than stock. The shackles pictured on Mark's rig look to my eye to be just a couple of inches longer than my aftermarket units.


I am obviously reaching for a way to use my 2.5" OME springs and 35" tires. Am I blinding myself to the truth?

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Ok - just checked my factory and OME shackles. Both exactly the same. Front is 2.75" pin to pin and the rear is 3.5". Therefore the main leaf must be longer on the OME in order to get any lift.

My expert eye estimates the fromt shackle pictured on Mark's unit above to be maybe 6". So roughly 3.25" longer.

Further research (read Boolean search) tells me that to get 1" of lift you would need a shackle roughly two inches longer all else being equal.

Would I be crazy to lower my spring hanger by making custom ones? I have a 4000W laser at the shop and recently was trained in Solidworks. I have already customized this frame and will be doing more to it. Hell, I may as well move the rear axle back a couple of inches and center it in the wheel arch

 

[ForealBoreal]

Kev,

Why not just go with 255s?
It would fit your lift, suit the 4.11s and look good unless your after the fat look?
33.5 inch is a good size!
A 3b turbo with an h55 would move along nice.

 

[crushers]

i did 3" lifts on 40s for years by dropping the spring hangers 3" and making a longer shackle.
the caster and camber stayed the same.
the handling stayed the same
the ride improved dramatically
the clearence was enough for 35s with no rub (had to cut the rear well for fatter tires, skinny would have been fine)
no issues with bump steer.
actually, no downsides at all.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Kev,

Why not just go with 255s?
It would fit your lift, suit the 4.11s and look good unless your after the fat look?
33.5 inch is a good size!
A 3b turbo with an h55 would move along nice.

I had a set of 255's all priced out and was mere minutes from pulling the trigger when the thought of 35's started me second guessing. I prefer the look of skinnys on a 40 series but with all my sliders and bumpers I think they might look funny with them being inside the wheel and all the tubing sticking out.

Who cares what it looks like you ask? Well lets be honest - looks are a big part of any rig and an even bigger part of this hobby. Looks are the whole reason I got a 45 in the first place.

I am not a fan of 13.5 or 14.5 or bigger width tires for my own build and if I could get a 35x10.5 radial in a decent tread I would. This build has changed from the original intent, as most builds do. I had planned to make it pretty much look totally stock and be a DD. But now with a roll cage, Toybox and armor all around it has morphed closer to the trail rig end of the spectrum and away from the road. It has to still be able to travel thousands of interstate miles though.

I believe (at this point) that a larger tire will help off road and these days a 35 is not a "large" off road tire. I remember when 35 was a huge tire. I had 35's on my 81 mini truck with open diffs and that thing was awesome.

i did 3" lifts on 40s for years by dropping the spring hangers 3" and making a longer shackle.
the caster and camber stayed the same.
the handling stayed the same
the ride improved dramatically
the clearence was enough for 35s with no rub (had to cut the rear well for fatter tires, skinny would have been fine)
no issues with bump steer.
actually, no downsides at all.

So I'm not any crazier than Wayne then. Comforting.

So I could get a 4.5" lift out of 2.5" Dakkars by dropping the hanger 2" and extending the shackle 2". Josh, is a 4.75" pin to pin front shackle too long? Seriously. I value your opinion. I have a tape measure in my hand and 4.75" is not very long.

I am stripping and blasting the frame anyway so a hanger alteration is no biggie, would only cost me a bit of time, no money, and it would save me $2000.00 for new springs I don't need.

 

[whitey45]

Kevin, just go with 44's and be done with itThere easy to fit with ome 2 1/2 springs,you just need to put the springs in the right location!!!

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Kevin, just go with 44's and be done with itThere easy to fit with ome 2 1/2 springs,you just need to put the springs in the right location!!!

Yeah! If I leave them in the basement I could lift it any height! At this point perhaps I should have linked it but I have to stop the project creep somewhere.

If it weren't for the rear springs being different from a 45 to a 42 I'd just sit on these and use them in the 42 I hope to build next. This mythical 42 will be stock except for 255/85 and 2.5" lift.

But I've said that before

Seriously though, with all the mods to this 45 that was in great original condition when I started I do feel remorse for bastardizing it. The 42 will be stock. Ish.

 

[whitey45]

I LOVE original stock 45's, but our lifestyles dont dictate having and using a stocker on a daily basis,it just will never do everything we need them for.The only answer is to have both I guess

 

[45Kevin]

The 42 will be stock. Ish.

Quoted for future reference.

 

[Chamba]

Hi Kevin,

I agree with Wayne in lowering the spring hangers. Have you thought about reversing the shackles? I don't like shackles that are more-than 1.5" longer than stock in the front as you really need to either cut-and-turn the knuckles or put shims in to keep it tracking nicely (in my experience). The tracking get more and more squirly the more the front axle is tilted down at the front (as with a longer shackle)

I have also driven rigs with longer front shckles (like in the above troopy) and they are considerably more prone to folowing ruts in the road than a stock shackle is. Most of this become moot, of course, when the shackle is moved to the rear of the front spring.

I moved my rear axle back 2.5" to centre the rear tire in the weel well and I really like the look. I'm a big fan of that myself.

I don't mean to sound like an expert here - I am not. i was just a bit suprised that a perfectionist like you would find a 6" shackle in the to be acceptable, that's all.

Josh

 

[crushers]

if you have the shackels build strong enough, and NOT 2 thin pieces of 1 1/2 W X 1/4" plate, then the stability isn't affected by the longer shackels.
i will take a pic of the shackles i use to make for this lift, they were 3/8" material, 3" wide, roughly 6" eye to eye with a piece of 2" X 3" X 1/8" welded in the middle to prevent float (picture a massive H pattern and you will have an idea)
the rear was dropped using a 2" X 3" 1/4wall tube ... bolted and welded to the frame with the centering hole dropped straight down from the original location.
some call the longer shackles "rock catchers" but in reality the lower front shackel point is exactly the same location and is raised straight up the height change of the tire size.
what i dislike about the fixed end of the spring moved forward is the flex end is now flexing toward the transfer case with a small chance of bottoming the driveshaft out and busting the front output.
the ride is improved, no doubt there
the handling is improved, agreed
but i have found that the ability for wheeling is diminished but this discussion is for a different thread, not to hijack this cool ass thread.

each to their own.

if i can find an old set of my shackles i will post a pic of them up.

 

[45Kevin]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-club/545260-broke-shock-i-think-i-know-why-sort.html

Wayne, that's one of your shackles in post 1. They are very robust indeed.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Thanks for the input guys.

I think what I'll do in the front then is move the spring hangers down 2" at least and perhaps 3". I will use the shackles that I bought with the springs which are stock length. I'll draw up, cut and bend a nice sturdy bracket set for both the front and rear eyes and weld them to the frame. I'll get one of my ticketed welders at work to do that.

In the rear I will do the same but I am going to do a bunch of measuring and re-locate the axle to the rear slightly to maximize the wheel opening in the bed. That will give me the best clearance for flexing 35" rubber.

All of this is a few months away. I have to finish out the cab,roll cage, seat mounts and dash alterations first. And I can start those until I ship a few more beds.

 

[crushers]

thanks Kevin, i didn't remember you having a set.

these are the ones i used to make ...
tough buggers as Kevin pointed out

to keep the caster and camber the same as factory settings and to avoid the "death wobble" i lowered the front and the rear of the spring exactly the same distance.

seemed to work very well...