1978 FJ40 to 1987 FJ60 Igniter/Dizzy question

[Coolerman]

I have a friend that is wanting to add the 1987 FJ60 Igniter/Dizzy to their 1978 FJ40. Having just completed documenting a 1978 harness, and going by some notes gathered from Jim C., Pin _Head and others over the years, I know that the 78-80 FJ40's used the infamous Yazaki Ignition Resistor Wire embedded in the harness instead of a ballast resistor. The 1987 ignitions do not need a ballast resistor, but, as the resistor wire is embedded into the harness it is not easy to remove it and it would have to be bypassed. Easy enough to do with a relay triggered by the old resistor wire to switch +12V straight from the battery to the new 1987 FJ60 Ignitor, or by running a bypass wire along side the main harness.

That's where the question comes in: Will the 1987 Igniter work reliably on the reduced voltage? Seems I recall someone doing this and not having an issue, but I would like clarification before telling them it would work. My training says install the relay or run a bypass wire... Lets not start a long debate on HOW to do this, I already know how to do it if needed. I just want to know if anyone with a 1978-80 FJ40 has used the FJ60 system without running a bypass to it and how does it perform.

 

[kruisinkid]

Where in the harness did you find the resistor? I didnt know this about the hidden resistor. I run a trollhole dizzy with the original coil with no problems. Ive been under the assumption the resistor is there for the coil, not the dizzy or igniter. Is the 60-series igniter internal or external of the dizzy?

 

[Coolerman]

This resistor wire is for the coil, just like a ballast resistor is for the coil. I do not know why Toyota decided to use this instead of a ballast resistor in the 78-80 wire harnesses but they did. Seems to me it would be cheaper all the way around to use the external resistor?

This wire in the harness I am documenting is exactly 63 inches long and when measured with a Fluke 87 meter (very accurate) it reads 1.2 ohms resistance which is the same as a ballast resistor. Printed on the wire is .75 ohms per meter. This would be 63/39.37 = 1.6002 meters x .75 =1.2 ohms.

The pics shows where the pink Yazaki resistor wire is spliced to the large BY wire near the key switch. The pink wire then goes to about where the rear chassis harness connectors are located and again is spliced back to the large BY wire that goes to the two pin connector for the igniter/coil connector. You would never know it was there unless you metered it out and got the 1.2 ohms reading instead of almost zero for a normal wire that size. It was the pink color that made me look closer at it.

So no one with a 78 has converted to the FJ60 stuff and retained this resistor wire?

 

[fj401978]

Wow, I love it when new stuff is 'un-earthed' about these trucks...especially when it relates to my particular year! Thanks Coolerman!

 

[Coolerman]

Well, the resistor wire has been discussed before. I believe Jim C. weighed in on a discussion a few years back.
I have also been looking for a source for the Yazaki (or any other brand) of resistor wire with little luck. Yazaki is still around (though they stay in trouble for price fixing ) they just don't seem to sell the resistor wire through normal channels. If someone has seen where this wire can be purchased let me know.

It's been a learning experience for me to finally document this year of FJ40 harness. Toyota made many harness changes between the 77 and 78 model years. A lot of the connectors they used are not available any longer, so should I ever decide to build a 78 harness, it would have a lot of aftermarket connectors. Even if you had the connector housings, some like the regulator, and rear chassis connectors use terminals that cannot be found.

Here is another piece of trivia on the later harnesses. If you look at a schematic for the rear chassis wiring and compare it to an actual harness, you will notice something odd; The colors on the schematic are for example Green/White for the brake system. However, when you take the tape off the rear harness you will not find that color of wire. What you will find is white wire spliced to a small piece of Green/White! I don't know if toward the end of the FJ40 run they ran out of the normal colors or maybe had an excess of other colors from other vehicles, but good luck trying to use the schematic the trace down issues in the rear chassis... I have seen this on every rear harness from 76 on. The attached pic shows a section of a 76 rear harness. Notice the White and red wires? On the schematic those are Red/Blue and Green/White...

BTW when I build a new rear chassis I use the wire colors that are on the schematics, not what I find when I un-tape. That way you will always be able to use the schematic to trouble shoot in the future.

 

[kruisinkid]

HA! welcome to the small he// i lived through about a year ago. its a mess back there in the rear harness. did you find they would eventually turn to the striped color? ie, green w/ red turned into a solid red wire? on the schematic in the haynes, you can see in some spots they label the same wire different colors and the closer you got to the electrical part, they would label it a solid color.

glad to know i wont ever waste another minute searching for those connectors to replace. i used hazardous condition / submersible connectors all throughout the rear harness. not cheap, but i doubt i will ever have a problem again.

one of these days i should make a giant PDF of all the schematics to share with the mud community.

 

[Coolerman]

I have a large collection of Toyota electrical stuff here: http://www.globalsoftware-inc.com/coolerman/fj40/schematics/ Check it out, if you have something I don't, I would be happy to add it there!

 

[john657]

I have a JAN 1978 FJ40 of which the original low end bearings finally went out in 2006. Instead of rebuilding, a good friend sold me a 2F engine and all accessories on it from a 1987 FJ60. The FJ60 was sitting in a salvage yard in Denver, CO due to a crash but had no engine/drivetrain damage. It had about 80,000 miles on it, so he pulled it and later sold it to me to install it into my FJ40 in 2006. I used the distributor and associated wiring from the FJ60 for the swap but I do not recall switching out to the FJ60 ignitor or any other wiring modifications. My friend helped me with the swap but it was pretty much plug and play. It has been running beautiful ever since and I would not hesitate driving around the world in it.
I just did a frame-off restoration in it over the winter to take care of rust issues and it is back on the road as of May of this year.

 

[Coolerman]

Hey John, thanks for the reply. You stated that you used the FJ60 distributor and associated wiring but used the 1978 ignitor and coil? That might be the perfect solution for my friend. I had not thought of that! I will direct him to this thread and have him try that. Appreciate the post very much.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I've got FJ60 ignition in my 40 as well, but I used the FJ60 coil/ignitor. The signal wires from the pick up had to be lengthened to work, but it's been ruuing that way for years. Not directly helpful to you Mark, but it's what I would try to do with your friend's truck. I powered the coil/ignitor assembly directly the way the FJ60 is stock. It runs at the full 12v of the ignition circuit, and since I totally rewired the truck I know there is no resistor wire in the circuit. Works perfectly.

 

[ridefastflyfar]

I have a 12/78 40 that I've recently been swapping dizzys and coils in (longer story as to why). I have successfully run it with an 86 dizzy and 89 coil/ignitor, as well as the same coil with a new '88-89 style dizzy without changing the resistor wire. No issues at all.

 

[Coolerman]

Thats what I remeber resding somewhere, the FJ60 would work with the resistor wire. I have passed all this on and will update this thread one way or the other when they try this solution. Thanks guys!

 

[RustyNailJustin]

@Coolerman
Stumbled into this thread, wondering if you have an update.

 

[Coolerman]

The limited update is this: You can use the 78-87 FJ40/FJ60 igniter with any FJ40/FJ60 solid state Toyota dizzy.
New information says you can also use a Toyota mini-truck igniter 1979 to 1986 or a Celica igniter, 1980-1982 DLX, LE 4 Cyl 2.4L 22R; RT135 with the solid state dizzy.


Check here for lots more information about dizzies and igniters.

 

[rghouse]

Just to confirm: The electronic ignition of late FJ40s is the same for the FJ60 model, and the coil, igniter, and dizzy is interchangeable for these years?

If looking to upgrade/replace ignition components on a late model stock FJ40 what is the most cost effective solution or consensus on best year parts, FJ60 stuff?

Does anybody on Mud refurbish/rebuild dizzy's? Dwell, advance, air gap; my manual might as well be in Japanese. Where do I start? just replace stuff?

My Issue: I believe I may have the problem mentioned on coolerman's page about the 78-80s where there is an intermittent spark (WAG at this point). Engine is erratic, wont idle, sometimes misfires, sometimes surges, sometimes races. Done every vacuum leak test in the book and even replaced manifold gasket. Igniter gets very hot and could be supect because I wired coil to the starter originally when rebuilding truck (mis-read wiring diagram); going to Napa to see if they have any available. Coil is new. Spark plugs look normal, 2 of them have more of a white soot appearance than the other 4.

 

[pjohnson]

Does anybody on Mud refurbish/rebuild dizzy's?

As a matter of fact, @4Cruisers is the resident dizzy guy.