17 vs 18 inch wheels - Handling Characteristics (1 Viewer)

[KCSIII]

For those of you that have gone from a 18 inch stock wheel to a 17 inch wheel (Rock Warriors, Hutchinson, etc), I was wondering what the "on road" handling was like? Did you notice any changes such as more roll, less stability, etc? Any degradation of on road handling at all? I am debating on wheels at this point. Currently I have stock wheels with stock size BFG TA KO2 tires (285/60/18). My driving will be approximately 85% on road, 15% off. Planning on coilovers to improve both on and off road ride. I am looking at a set of Methods with the +25 offset. I love the stance of that offset as it puts the tires flush with the body and like the idea of spreading the width out a couple inches for handling. I also have read that particular offset will provide a nice "tuck" for offroad. But then I read that unless you go forged, pretty much all the aftermarket rims are inferior to the stock or the TRD RWs. So if I am going to spend money on something should I spend it on TRD RWs and maybe add spacers? If I go that route, wondering if the handling of the 17 inch rim and spacers will be inferior to the 18 inch methods, in which case even though they are "made in China", for most of my purposes (85% on road) they would actually be an improvement to stock and the TRD RW's might offer a lesser on road driving experience. Another aspect of this I suppose would be tire/sidewall size. Ideally I would like to get to as close to a 34 so I don't have to mess with KDSS relo, etc. My preference would be for a 285/70/18 on the 18 inch rims, but I'll be waiting on that until they come out with an AT in that size. So if I go the method route I'll probably stay with the current BFGs since they only have @ 3000 miles or so on them as its cost effective and buys me time to see if the manufactures are going to put out a 285/70/18 in AT. If I go the TRD RW route, perhaps a 285/75/17 or a 305/70/17 would be what I go with.
At any rate, I value the opinions of the folks on this forum, so any thoughts on handling would be appreciated.

 

[cruiser100]

I ran BFG KO2 275/70/18 (33.2 diameter) on my 100 and plan on doing the same/similar on the 200 with stock wheels. The biggest thing with wheel changes to watch for is the scrub radius. If you to too far off a zero it will have an impact on handling. If you can get wheels with a 35mm or higher offset it doesn't take the scrub too far off. Here is a great calculator for trying wheel and tire sizes: Rim & Tire Size Calculator. Custom Offsets

 

[Tremek]

A few thoughts: we went from the stock 18" wheels with the crappy factory Dunlops, down to 17" Rock Warriors with 285/70/17 BFG KO2s.

The BFGs are E-rated so they're a bit stiffer and transmit a bit more thunk into the cabin than the Dunlops did in spite of having a taller sidewall; the Rock Warriors are considerably lighter than the 18s that came off, so my guess is that even with the heavier BFGs my unsprung weight probably didn't increase much if at all.

Overall: the ride is a little firmer on the BFGs, but I have (been forced!) to make one or two panic maneuvers since getting them on the truck and I felt as though that it still had an impressive amount of agility given the weight and height of the truck, as well as the circumstances (when I got rear-ended in February, I had come to a full, complete, and controlled stop behind a truck that had gone into ABS-limbo trying to stop on ice. Then the kid in an old Mazda behind me that was on crap tires and had been following too closely tagged my rear bumper.)

I was also impressed last year at the BFGs' capabilities on some gnarly trails... The 200 just rolled right up most obstacles, and the BFGs helped make that a non-issue from a traction perspective.

In short, I think that given you're already on the BFGs, you're not going to notice much difference at all from behind the wheel if you go with either RWs or aftermarket wheels and down to a 17".

In your case the actual diameter of the tire/wheel makes way less of a difference than the rubber you would be putting on it. The wheels themselves - unless you were going to steelies or something - probably won't be that noticeable a difference.

 

[KCSIII]

I ran BFG KO2 275/70/18 (33.2 diameter) on my 100 and plan on doing the same/similar on the 200 with stock wheels. The biggest thing with wheel changes to watch for is the scrub radius. If you to too far off a zero it will have an impact on handling. If you can get wheels with a 35mm or higher offset it doesn't take the scrub too far off. Here is a great calculator for trying wheel and tire sizes: Rim & Tire Size Calculator. Custom Offsets

Thank you Cruiser100. And thank you for the link. So my next question for you is how much is too much scrub? Would (some) positive scrub actually be helpful to handling?
Sorry about your totaled 100. Hope you are OK.

 

[KCSIII]

A few thoughts: we went from the stock 18" wheels with the crappy factory Dunlops, down to 17" Rock Warriors with 285/70/17 BFG KO2s.

The BFGs are E-rated so they're a bit stiffer and transmit a bit more thunk into the cabin than the Dunlops did in spite of having a taller sidewall; the Rock Warriors are considerably lighter than the 18s that came off, so my guess is that even with the heavier BFGs my unsprung weight probably didn't increase much if at all.

Overall: the ride is a little firmer on the BFGs, but I have (been forced!) to make one or two panic maneuvers since getting them on the truck and I felt as though that it still had an impressive amount of agility given the weight and height of the truck, as well as the circumstances (when I got rear-ended in February, I had come to a full, complete, and controlled stop behind a truck that had gone into ABS-limbo trying to stop on ice. Then the kid in an old Mazda behind me that was on crap tires and had been following too closely tagged my rear bumper.)

I was also impressed last year at the BFGs' capabilities on some gnarly trails... The 200 just rolled right up most obstacles, and the BFGs helped make that a non-issue from a traction perspective.

In short, I think that given you're already on the BFGs, you're not going to notice much difference at all from behind the wheel if you go with either RWs or aftermarket wheels and down to a 17".

In your case the actual diameter of the tire/wheel makes way less of a difference than the rubber you would be putting on it. The wheels themselves - unless you were going to steelies or something - probably won't be that noticeable a difference.

Thank you Tremek. So from your perspective, stick with the BFG's and it wont really matter 17 vs 18 due to the harder sidewall?

 

[RS6tofj80]

the issues I noted going from 17's (RW's) to the 18's were a significant gain in unsprung weight..... had to adjsut the Icons to a firmer setting to get same ride control and a bit of loss in acceleration......
still debating a different rim option in something forged but there are just so few options....especially factoring in the Turdra front conversion.

for tires on the RW's - a 295 fits well with 1.25" spacers ......I ran the Toyo RT's and really liked that setup before I did the full lift.

E

 

[chilibit]

I elected to run the Toyo 285 AT2 tires (P-metric) on the 17" RW wheels and put the rings in the barn. That gives approximately a 33" tire and the same weight as the OEM wheel/tire. If I was in Colorado again I might choose the LT tire but here on the farm and the way I use the truck it is nearly perfect. Pretty close to stock feel and handling. I much prefer more sidewall.

 

[linuxgod]

Subscribed. Awesome question, and you sound like you're thinking the same thing I am, so I'm curious what you end up doing and what the impact is. My lean currently is either:

Icon 17x8.5 +25 wheels with 285/75R17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers
RW 17x8 +50 wheels with 285/70R17 BFG KO2s. Or the above Nittos if I use 1" spacers.
Fuel Anza 18x9 +20 wheels with 275/70R18 BFG KO2s

I like the Icons (Slee has them on the LX), but they're lug-centric and I don't know the hub bore so no idea if there's a hub ring that would work with them.

I like the RWs and I'd like the extra offset for the look and possibly UCA/suspension clearance since at the moment I'm not lifted. But RW availability is spotty, and I'd prefer not to deal with spacers if I didn't need to.

I like the Fuel Anza, which looks similar to the Icon, but there's a limited number of tires available in 285/70R18 as you've noticed.

17" tires are a lot heavier, and other than the RW I'm curious how wheel fitment will impact any brake upgrades. i.e. with the 17" Icon wheels could you still upgrade to the 2016+ LC or the 2007+ Tundra front brakes which are a few mm wider circumference IIRC.

So yeah I'm very curious how higher offset affects handling. Personally with the stock +60 wheels I feel like the handling is loose or sloppy, particularly on the highway where I feel like the LC wanders more than my 3rd gen 4Runner or 2nd gen MDX did.

 

[KCSIII]

the issues I noted going from 17's (RW's) to the 18's were a significant gain in unsprung weight..... had to adjsut the Icons to a firmer setting to get same ride control and a bit of loss in acceleration......
still debating a different rim option in something forged but there are just so few options....especially factoring in the Turdra front conversion.

for tires on the RW's - a 295 fits well with 1.25" spacers ......I ran the Toyo RT's and really liked that setup before I did the full lift.

E

Thanks!
So at the end of the day (and coming from a sports car), do you prefer handling of the 18 inch wheel, or the 17 inch with spacers?

 

[KCSIII]

I elected to run the Toyo 285 AT2 tires (P-metric) on the 17" RW wheels and put the rings in the barn. That gives approximately a 33" tire and the same weight as the OEM wheel/tire. If I was in Colorado again I might choose the LT tire but here on the farm and the way I use the truck it is nearly perfect. Pretty close to stock feel and handling. I much prefer more sidewall.

thanks Chilibit

 

[KCSIII]

Subscribed. Awesome question, and you sound like you're thinking the same thing I am, so I'm curious what you end up doing and what the impact is. My lean currently is either:

Icon 17x8.5 +25 wheels with 285/75R17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers
RW 17x8 +50 wheels with 285/70R17 BFG KO2s. Or the above Nittos if I use 1" spacers.
Fuel Anza 18x9 +20 wheels with 275/70R18 BFG KO2s

I like the Icons (Slee has them on the LX), but they're lug-centric and I don't know the hub bore so no idea if there's a hub ring that would work with them.

I like the RWs and I'd like the extra offset for the look and possibly UCA/suspension clearance since at the moment I'm not lifted. But RW availability is spotty, and I'd prefer not to deal with spacers if I didn't need to.

I like the Fuel Anza, which looks similar to the Icon, but there's a limited number of tires available in 285/70R18 as you've noticed.

17" tires are a lot heavier, and other than the RW I'm curious how wheel fitment will impact any brake upgrades. i.e. with the 17" Icon wheels could you still upgrade to the 2016+ LC or the 2007+ Tundra front brakes which are a few mm wider circumference IIRC.

So yeah I'm very curious how higher offset affects handling. Personally with the stock +60 wheels I feel like the handling is loose or sloppy, particularly on the highway where I feel like the LC wanders more than my 3rd gen 4Runner or 2nd gen MDX did.

Yes, I definitely like the Anza and Icon as well, they all have a very similar look to them along with the RW's. If I had a black or gray or silver or gold truck that's the look I would probably be going with. On the white (which is what I have) i like the mostly black wheel with a slight accent of the fake beadlock look. If I end up with the Methods I will have to look into the hub ring too as I would like to keep everything lined up properly and I think most aftermarkets are lug centric. But if it turns out from the opinions of the folks on here that there's no difference in handling, then it seems the way to go is the RW's and just add spacers for stance and powder coat for black color. I think I have read that the 18 is a must if you go the Tundra brake route (but I'll let someone who has actually tried it opine). FWIW I am planning on trying out (being shipped to me as we speak) the TRD performance pads to be paired with DBA slotted rotors. And I couldn't agree more, the stock set up (even with the BFG's) feels sloppy AND loose at time on the highway. Not certain I would feel too comfortable at 90mph, and being in Houston, there's a lot of highway miles between me and this country's best wheeling spots out west (same for Chicago I suppose), so when I plan a trip I would like to be able to do 90 to get there quickly.

 

[TeCKis300]

The short answer is the larger wheel.

There's a multitude of different aspects to handling and potentially cases where the 17" would have the advantage. Generally, the 18" wheel will have the edge except for situations where compliance is needed (like baja running). That same compliance is a detriment for on road handling where handling sharpness, response, and quicker control of transient motions are preferred. Taking this further, the LX570's larger and wider 20x8.5" wheels would give more advantage still. Except that we want a balance of qualities so that it performs off road too right?

Any A/T tire will result in worse handling relative to the stock P-metric street oriented tires. This is due to construction, tread/compound, and added unsprung weight. But those are all good qualities for off-road traction and durability. But an A/T tire will result in worse corning traction. I would recommend going slightly wider if possible in fitment if cornering performance matters to you.

If your plan is to upsize (larger diameter) tires, you will already be gaining sidewall and compliance without going down in wheel size. If your preferred priority is on-road handling, then 18s. If you want more sidewall for baja running and rock crawling, 17s. Between the two, with the same offset and overall tire/tire size, the difference is likely negligible.

In terms of offset, the optimal offset is factory 60mm for a factory wheel and tire setup. A larger diameter wheel/tire package will want a slightly lower offset as optimal as it's determined by the imaginary line from the upper control arm linkage to the lower control arm through to the center contact patch of the tire. Rock Warriors with ~32.7s has this as 50mm offset. You can deviate from this, but the more aggressive the deviation, the potential worse handling manners at the limit. That said, as you lift the car higher, added track width is good for general cornering stability.

That said, I have 33.2" A/T tires on my stock LX 20" wheels with 1" spacers putting the offset at ~35mm. The car is very stable and confidence inspiring in its on-road handling and manners, even at high freeway speeds. This is the balance I was hoping for, to gain added durability and capability off-road, but without destroying its on-road handling. I'm a pretty aggressive driver as my other daily is a Porsche. Given the size and weight of the LX, I'm pleasantly satisfied.

 

[mcgaskins]

Generally the 17" setups are lighter with more sidewall and better off road with only the slightest (IMO) road handling trade off. I always try to get the smallest wheel / largest tire setup I can physically fit on all my off road vehicles, and I loathe spacers of any kind. Been there, done that, not for me. Rock Warriors are ridiculously popular for a reason - Toyota OEM quality, very strong, light, good looking, great fit, and they're 17". I also strongly dislike aftermarket wheels that aren't made specifically for a vehicle (think AEV for Jeeps or BBS for German cars), and I would never buy something that wasn't hubcentric. Everyone is a critic and has an opinion, so just do what's right for you and don't worry about it. Figure out what kind of driving and terrain you'll be spending your time on and go from there.

 

[htx]

Following this as well - looks like I might be getting into a set of 17" RW's soon. Now to find some tires and get rid of the OEM 18" wheels.

 

[cru1s3r]

Is the Rock Warrior wheel still an option for the '16 and '17 trucks with slightly larger discs?

2015 front disc diameter: 13.4"
2016-2016 front disc diameter: 13.9"

 

[ikeb]

Is the Rock Warrior wheel still an option for the '16 and '17 trucks with slightly larger discs?

2015 front disc diameter: 13.4"
2016-2016 front disc diameter: 13.9"

yes ... i have them on mine.

 

[KCSIII]

The short answer is the larger wheel.

There's a multitude of different aspects to handling and potentially cases where the 17" would have the advantage. Generally, the 18" wheel will have the edge except for situations where compliance is needed (like baja running). That same compliance is a detriment for on road handling where handling sharpness, response, and quicker control of transient motions are preferred. Taking this further, the LX570's larger and wider 20x8.5" wheels would give more advantage still. Except that we want a balance of qualities so that it performs off road too right?

Any A/T tire will result in worse handling relative to the stock P-metric street oriented tires. This is due to construction, tread/compound, and added unsprung weight. But those are all good qualities for off-road traction and durability. But an A/T tire will result in worse corning traction. I would recommend going slightly wider if possible in fitment if cornering performance matters to you.

If your plan is to upsize (larger diameter) tires, you will already be gaining sidewall and compliance without going down in wheel size. If your preferred priority is on-road handling, then 18s. If you want more sidewall for baja running and rock crawling, 17s. Between the two, with the same offset and overall tire/tire size, the difference is likely negligible.

In terms of offset, the optimal offset is factory 60mm for a factory wheel and tire setup. A larger diameter wheel/tire package will want a slightly lower offset as optimal as it's determined by the imaginary line from the upper control arm linkage to the lower control arm through to the center contact patch of the tire. Rock Warriors with ~32.7s has this as 50mm offset. You can deviate from this, but the more aggressive the deviation, the potential worse handling manners at the limit. That said, as you lift the car higher, added track width is good for general cornering stability.

View attachment 1460674


That said, I have 33.2" A/T tires on my stock LX 20" wheels with 1" spacers putting the offset at ~35mm. The car is very stable and confidence inspiring in its on-road handling and manners, even at high freeway speeds. This is the balance I was hoping for, to gain added durability and capability off-road, but without destroying its on-road handling. I'm a pretty aggressive driver as my other daily is a Porsche. Given the size and weight of the LX, I'm pleasantly satisfied.

Thank you TeCK. I appreciate the info and exactly why I posed the question here as this forum is very knowledgeable!

 

[KCSIII]

Generally the 17" setups are lighter with more sidewall and better off road with only the slightest (IMO) road handling trade off. I always try to get the smallest wheel / largest tire setup I can physically fit on all my off road vehicles, and I loathe spacers of any kind. Been there, done that, not for me. Rock Warriors are ridiculously popular for a reason - Toyota OEM quality, very strong, light, good looking, great fit, and they're 17". I also strongly dislike aftermarket wheels that aren't made specifically for a vehicle (think AEV for Jeeps or BBS for German cars), and I would never buy something that wasn't hubcentric. Everyone is a critic and has an opinion, so just do what's right for you and don't worry about it. Figure out what kind of driving and terrain you'll be spending your time on and go from there.

I appreciate the reply and the reasono for your thoughts and thinking behind it Mcgaskins!

 

[LALC]

Does anybody know the weight of the two wheels, or one of them? 2016 wheel and RW wheel? (I did limited searching on my own and couldn't immediately find anything)

 

[KCSIII]

Does anybody know the weight of the two wheels, or one of them? 2016 wheel and RW wheel? (I did limited searching on my own and couldn't immediately find anything)

I believe the RW is 24 lbs...not certain the weight of the 2016 wheel but I know someone on here will