100 Series are Expensive - Discuss! (1 Viewer)

[BullElk]

That is terribly unfortunate. All three of my fam's hundys may fall apart this evening all at the same time but.....

I have had five hundys over many miles and never had any master cylinder failures. I have replaced two CVs for about $150 per axle including labor (nonOEM parts) and have since worked perfectly. I have replaced one steering rack for like $600 including labor. Driven many more than 100k miles on them. Never had a lock actuator problem. Very very little work done other than that. There is no doubt your situation is very much the exception. Terrible but the exception.

I think it begins with the history at the time of the used purchase. As with assessing the success of any investment, it begins with the good "find" and the good "buy".

The other reasons that LC/LX owners may conclude high cost of ownership is..... demand using OEM parts on everything, using dealerships as their mechanics and being OCD about maintenance. Years of 100 series drivng success can be gained and much coinage can be saved by not doing any of the three if the owner so desired.

 

[95Fantasma80]

That is terribly unfortunate. All three of my fam's hundys may fall apart this evening all at the same time but.....

I have had five hundys over many miles and never had any master cylinder failures. I have replaced two CVs for about $150 per axle including labor (nonOEM parts) and have since worked perfectly. I have replaced one steering rack for like $600 including labor. Driven many more than 100k miles on them. Never had a lock actuator problem. Very very little work done other than that. There is no doubt your situation is very much the exception. Terrible but the exception.

I think it begins with the history at the time of the used purchase. As with assessing the success of any investment, it begins with the good "find" and the good "buy".

The other reasons that LC/LX owners may conclude high cost of ownership is..... demand using OEM parts on everything, using dealerships as their mechanics and being OCD about maintenance. Years of 100 series drivng success can be gained and much coinage can be saved by not doing any of the three if the owner so desired.

yeah, buying a meticulously maintained 100 is half the battle, the other is staying on top of all maintenance and a good baseline which should not be much if you picked up a good cruiser. I feel for those who purchased a rust bucket or no maintance history records because they fell in love with the reputation and then blame the car as a pos.

 

[FxFormat]

I've been trying to find stuff to fix/replace on my 200K mile cruiser and so far i haven't found anything. A hobby of mine is refreshing these things but this recent one i bought, the owner took it in for every maintenance and service items. So yeah, how the PO take care of the truck will dictate how the truck will treat the next owner.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Trigger warning: my Lx470 has been one of the least reliable and most needy vehicles I have owned. 02 with 170k miles when I bought it 2 yrs ago. Put about 20k on it. 2013 Fiat 500 that I bought with 115k on it for gas savings, and have put almost 30k on since has been far far more reliable than my LX.

Yeah sure there's the 25 year built to last saying (I don't believe a single word of it). Well at 150-200k or so, most of the rig has to be overhauled except for the trans and engine. Yes these are incredibly well built vehicles, amongst some of the best but....

Master cylinder failure ($2500) - I don't know who and how people are saying 100 series aren't expensive when they haven't had this failure

CV's - $400+ each, yeah others reboot them

Timing belt - costly if you don't do your own labour

Every door lock actuator has failed and had to be replaced. Sure it's a cheap fix because of this forum and cheap eBay motors, but I can just imagine how expensive that would be if you didn't know. $200 per door x 5 plus labour

Steering rack - yeah these only last about 100-200k miles tops. Bushing is weak too.

That's tip of the iceberg of repairs I've needed to do. Every bit has to be OEM in the 100 series. Getting aftermarket really you will do the labour twice.

100 series are expensive. The newest ones are 12 years old and no matter how clean the ppi might show, you'd never find one 100% sorted because those that are, the owner is keeping it for many many years to come.

That brake failure is a bear, no argument there. Ridiculous repair when the failed component is normally so cheap, but entirely unavailable, forcing folks to purchase the entire, massive assembly.

CVs - I think that's perfectly normal for any vehicle with drive front wheels. You can buy cheap aftermarket CVs for the 100, just like any other vehicle.

Timing belt cost - same as any V8 engine, isn't it?

Steering rack - 278k in my 99 and it's all original and in great shape. Failures before 200k are about on par with any other vehicle, I think.

When you said you had an LX that was expensive, I was waiting for the AHC/AVS system failures.

I think the wear item maintenance needs to be compared like for like with a similar class vehicle. (IE Land Rover, Range Rover, Grand Cherokee, Navigator, X5, Q7, Mercedes G wagon, Sequoia, etc...) I think some folks are expecting the Land Cruiser to have maintenance similar to a Corolla. That's a recipe for disappointment.

 

[medtro]

How many of those are unique to 100 series?

Master cylinder failure ($2500) - I don't know who and how people are saying 100 series aren't expensive when they haven't had this failure

Isn't this true for most of the newer vehicles? Plus you can just replace the electric motor instead of the $2500 brake master assembly.

CV's - $400+ each, yeah others reboot them

You can reboot if all you need is CV boots. You can replace the outboard axle if it is worn, inboard axle usually has less wear. Again, no need to buy the entire CV axle assembly.

Timing belt - costly if you don't do your own labour

This is true for any other vehicles that have an engine with timing belt.

Every door lock actuator has failed and had to be replaced. Sure it's a cheap fix because of this forum and cheap eBay motors, but I can just imagine how expensive that would be if you didn't know. $200 per door x 5 plus labour

The same motor is used in many other vehicles.

Steering rack - yeah these only last about 100-200k miles tops. Bushing is weak too.

200k miles for steering rack is not bad. You can't expect rubber o-ring and bushing not to wear.

 

[hickuptruck]

Yeah I had a ahc failure. Left me 20 miles from home on bumpstops. Had just checked everything out on techstream 3 weeks earlier and every part checked out ok. Ripped it out and put in 2.5RR Radflos.

Been there with cheap CVs on the 100 series. They simply don't work. They have the cheap 3 ball design instead of the 6. I was lifted 1 inch over stock on non OEM CVs and they roared like bad wheel bearings.

What it comes down to, the sum of components, the LC is an expensive vehicle to run. Not quite German SUV but it's far more than an average Chevy/GMC truck of same era. Between my dad and I, from 2003-2015 or so, we both put about 650k miles on 3 Dodge trucks. All of them were cheaper to run and get up to that mileage than my 02 LX with less repairs than I've made to LX.

That brake failure is a bear, no argument there. Ridiculous repair when the failed component is normally so cheap, but entirely unavailable, forcing folks to purchase the entire, massive assembly.

CVs - I think that's perfectly normal for any vehicle with drive front wheels. You can buy cheap aftermarket CVs for the 100, just like any other vehicle.

Timing belt cost - same as any V8 engine, isn't it?

Steering rack - 278k in my 99 and it's all original and in great shape. Failures before 200k are about on par with any other vehicle, I think.

When you said you had an LX that was expensive, I was waiting for the AHC/AVS system failures.

I think the wear item maintenance needs to be compared like for like with a similar class vehicle. (IE Land Rover, Range Rover, Grand Cherokee, Navigator, X5, Q7, Mercedes G wagon, Sequoia, etc...) I think some folks are expecting the Land Cruiser to have maintenance similar to a Corolla. That's a recipe for disappointment.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Yeah I had a ahc failure. Left me 20 miles from home on bumpstops. Had just checked everything out on techstream 3 weeks earlier and every part checked out ok. Ripped it out and put in 2.5RR Radflos.

Been there with cheap CVs on the 100 series. They simply don't work. They have the cheap 3 ball design instead of the 6. I was lifted 1 inch over stock on non OEM CVs and they roared like bad wheel bearings.

What it comes down to, the sum of components, the LC is an expensive vehicle to run. Not quite German SUV but it's far more than an average Chevy/GMC truck of same era. Between my dad and I, from 2003-2015 or so, we both put about 650k miles on 3 Dodge trucks. All of them were cheaper to run and get up to that mileage than my 02 LX with less repairs than I've made to LX.

I think we all agree that a Dodge truck should be far cheaper to run that a flagship Lexus SUV. The 100 series is a luxury SUV. Why would it be compared to pickup trucks that were 1/3 the price new and feel 1/2 as nice to drive?

Here are the inflation adjusted MSRP for the 100 series:
1999 LC: $72k
1999 LX: $86k

The pricing remained pretty stable throughout production, I think. For their original price, 100 series vehicles are some of the cheapest to maintain for their age that I'm aware of.

 

[geanes]

LandCruisers can certainly be expensive, especially if you don't do your own labor. Since I bought my 98 LX 3 years ago (150k on the clock), I've put nearly 100k miles (daily driving and lots of hard off-roading). Many of the things I addressed were preventative and also "upgrades". I've done a majority of my own labor which has saved significantly. So, from a purely maintenance perspective, here goes:

Timing Belt/Water Pump (TKT-021 kit): $165
Fan Bracket: $220
Fan Clutch: $100
Spark Plugs: $60
Valve Gasket replacement (both sides): $60
CV Axles: $600
Front LCA Ball Joints: $80
Front Tie Rod Ends (inner and outer): $190
Rear Rotors & pads: $200
Front Rotors & pads: $150
U-joints x4: $240
Front Differential lollipop: $180
Heater Ts: $20

Upcoming:
Radiator: $300
Steering Rack: $800
Rear Upper/Lower Control Arms: upgrading to the TrailTailor versions $600 (I could have easily just replaced the bushings in the arms for a fraction of that cost, but got the upgradeitis big time).

All of those projects above would have probably net somewhere in the neighborhood of 26-30 or more book hours at somewhere around $135/hour (seems to be an average rate here in Central TX). So, by doing the vast majority of the work myself, I saved probably over $3500. I will NOT be doing my own steering rack though, so that's gonna cost a pretty penny. But, I don't feel like dealing with it myself.

I have done plenty of other things that weren't maintenance, but definitely cost a ton. They were purely elective though. My AHC worked fine and I could have kept running it for a long time. However, I added a bunch of weight with things like bumpers, sliders, drawer system and more. So, I upgraded the suspension to a ToughDog setup with new NitroGear UCAs.

The thing I like most about these rigs is that I can work on them myself. There was no way in heck I could have worked on my 2016 Subaru Outback. That car had enough electronics on it to all but prevent shade tree mechanic work.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

So...


Who wants to play a numbers game? Anyone added everything up? What's the number your wife sees vs the secret spreadsheet figure?

Just curious.

All summed up I am at $18k .
purchase $2.5k
baselining/refresh $5k
Body Work $3k
Upgrades $6k
Stupid stuff that I didn't need: $1.5k

I call it a $10k truck at home and my wife doesn't care (I totally don't deserve her )

My wife tells me she doesn’t want to know. She knows better. Thank goodness!

You lucky b...

 

[BullElk]

What’s ironically funny is....These are conversations of reliability and cost of ownership of Vehicles that are designed, built and known to be the most reliable on earth.

Wonder what the same conversation are like on the BMW. Dodge truck, Jeep Cherokee and Land Rober forums?

I would guess it’s a dumpster fire of a conversation if they have them at all.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

What’s ironically funny is....These are conversations of reliability and cost of ownership of Vehicles that are designed, built and known to be the most reliable on earth.

Wonder what the same conversation are like on the BMW. Dodge truck, Jeep Cherokee and Land Rober forums?

I would guess it’s a dumpster fire of a conversation if they have them at all.

This conversation is because of the purported reliability and durability of these trucks, not despite of!!

People who own 20 year old German sedans don't strut around claiming the legendary bullet proofness of their steeds, nor do they cry buckets when they break. It is the matter of expectation, IMHO.

 

[geanes]

What’s ironically funny is....These are conversations of reliability and cost of ownership of Vehicles that are designed, built and known to be the most reliable on earth.

Wonder what the same conversation are like on the BMW. Dodge truck, Jeep Cherokee and Land Rober forums?

I would guess it’s a dumpster fire of a conversation if they have them at all.

Very true. I owned the polar opposite of a LandCruiser in regards to reliability......a 1999 Ford Contour SVT. Worst vehicle I have ever owned by a longshot! In 20 months of ownership, I experienced the following: 9 (yes, NINE) alternators, 4 complete brake jobs, 3 dashboards, 2 ABS replacements, 2 rear deck spoilers, 1 rear seat replacement, AC system failed and was replaced and many many more issues including clutch gremlins that could never be diagnosed properly. The final straw was when the 9th alternator failed.....car died on the highway in a massive rainstorm....I called the dealership and told them to come pick up the car. Thank GOD my grandfather had connections, so I got a HUGE check from Ford to take the car off my hands. Never purchased or will ever purchase a Ford product ever again....at any point. Looked up the VIN a few years ago (still had the original paperwork in my files): car was scrapped in 2005.

So, my 1998 LX is still running strong with FAR fewer issues over the 21 years of operation while my 99 SVT Contour was an absolute train wreck of a car and was completely scrapped in 2005. BTW, the SVT Contour was notorious for issues....mine was not a unique situation.

 

[BullElk]

“...baselining/refresh $5k”
What types of refreshing costs $5k ?

 

[Mbchance]

“...baselining/refresh $5k”
What types of refreshing costs $5k ?

Must be the replacement of the cats! Platinum in the catalytic converters is expensive nowadays!

 

[ClassyJalopy]

“...baselining/refresh $5k”
What types of refreshing costs $5k ?

Must be the replacement of the cats! Platinum in the catalytic converters is expensive nowadays!

Brake booster assembly $1000
AHC maintenance $200
AHC replacement $1000
Rear A/C lines replacement $800 (includes labor)
Timing Belt $500
Rear Control Arms $600
Front control arms/ball joints/TRE/wheel bearings/alignment $650
Brake rotors, pads, rear lines $600
Starter $350 (included labor)
Driveline fluids/grease $200

Actually that over $5.5k. And I haven't included some of the lower cost stuff like rear wiper linkage, light bulbs, filters etc.
Doesn't include the interior refurbs (front seat refreshing, busted/missing interior parts, HVAC seals etc.)
This also not includes any issues caused by rust since that is largely not Mr. T's fault.
Finally, tires cost is not included in this either.

I had a shop replace the starter because my truck was stranded 500 miles from home! Also had a shop do the rear A/C because I was lazy and probably could have shaved another $300 off of that.

Please feel free to point out which services cost was out of ordinary and where I could have saved money. My truck had lived it's entire life in IL and WI and had been maintained by the same Lexus dealership that originally sold it for almost it's entire life!

 

[Mbchance]

Brake booster assembly $1000
AHC maintenance $200
AHC replacement $1000
Rear A/C lines replacement $800 (includes labor)
Timing Belt $500
Rear Control Arms $600
Front control arms/ball joints/TRE/wheel bearings/alignment $650
Brake rotors, pads, rear lines $600
Starter $350 (included labor)
Driveline fluids/grease $200

Actually that over $5.5k. And I haven't included some of the lower cost stuff like rear wiper linkage, light bulbs, filters etc.
Doesn't include the interior refurbs (front seat refreshing, busted/missing interior parts, HVAC seals etc.)
This also not includes any issues caused by rust since that is largely not Mr. T's fault.
Finally, tires cost is not included in this either.

I had a shop replace the starter because my truck was stranded $500 miles from home! Also had a shop do the rear A/C because I was lazy and probably could have shaved another $300 off of that.

Please feel free to point out which services cost was out of ordinary and where I could have saved money. My truck had lived it's entire life in IL and WI and had been maintained by the same Lexus dealership that originally sold it for almost it's entire life!

No doubt, a vehicle as old as this is expensive to fix and maintain to an extent.

What people often overlook in the discussion is that once a "bad" part is replaced and proper maintenance is performed, it should last another 15-20 years unless faulty. That is where more value is recouped compared to similar aged vehicles and the life expectancy of said vehicles.

Fact is, parts get old, wear out, rubber hardens and disintegrates, time ages everything.

With the age of the vehicles and wear and tear, we are starting to cross over into restoration instead of just maintenance.

Even with all of that, it sure is a joy to drive!

 

[geanes]

No doubt, a vehicle as old as this is expensive to fix and maintain to an extent.

What people often overlook in the discussion is that once a "bad" part is replaced and proper maintenance is performed, it should last another 15-20 years unless faulty. That is where more value is recouped compared to similar aged vehicles and the life expectancy of said vehicles.

Fact is, parts get old, wear out, rubber hardens and disintegrates, time ages everything.

With the age of the vehicles and wear and tear, we are starting to cross over into restoration instead of just maintenance.

Even with all of that, it sure is a joy to drive!

That's exactly the way I look at it. Most of the stuff I've replaced lasted nearly 20-21 years. I figure if that's the interval, than I'm WAAAAY ahead. Heck, even if the intervals are half that, I'm still good.

Hoses, bushings, etc are simply parts that require replacing in all vehicles. The fact that nearly all of the rubber in my 98 LX has lasted this long means I am happy to replace and know I'll get another 20+ years. Makes the investment in parts like that palatable. Also, having a paid off vehicle is such a luxury....I don't ever want another car payment

 

[suprarx7nut]

That's exactly the way I look at it. Most of the stuff I've replaced lasted nearly 20-21 years. I figure if that's the interval, than I'm WAAAAY ahead. Heck, even if the intervals are half that, I'm still good.

Hoses, bushings, etc are simply parts that require replacing in all vehicles. The fact that nearly all of the rubber in my 98 LX has lasted this long means I am happy to replace and know I'll get another 20+ years. Makes the investment in parts like that palatable. Also, having a paid off vehicle is such a luxury....I don't ever want another car payment

Word. I'm a huge fan of buying older, but nicer vehicles. Paying a car payment on a hugely depreciating asset is hard to stomach if you're paying attention to value per dollar. new cars quickly get old and avoiding old cars requires deep pockets or (what i'd call) careless financial planning. You might as well drive something that's still nice when it's old.

On my 99 I'm at ~$25k total investment (excluding title, gas and insurance) over 6.3 years and 90k miles. Rig is probably worth $8-12k in current local market. That includes around $4k in completely frivolous upgrades (armor, stereo).

Removing frivolous upgrades, worst case right now, I'm at $0.14/mile to own and maintain the best vehicle I've owned. Best case that drops to about $.10/mile. The government estimates the average vehicle cost is around $.55/mile including gas. If I include gas, I'm at ~$.35/mile. Still way ahead of the average car on the road.

 

[gregnash]

If you really want to look at the "reliability" of a brand, take an analysts approach and the next long trip/drive that you are on take inventory of all the vehicles that are broken down on the side of the road. I am not talking just pulled over to change a tire out, those are easy enough to spot. I am talking the ones that are abandoned with flashers on/off or have people waiting with hood popped up.

Last time I did that on my way to/from Carmel, Ca. (which is a 5 1/2hr drive one way, I saw 12 vehicles total. Of those 7 were Dodges, 3 were Fords and 2 were Chevy. All looked to be newer than 2006 and all seemed to have major issues; puddles underneath, steam coming out, one driveline on the ground, etc. I also counted an unbelievable 15 vehicles being transported by tow truck, of which most were either Dodge or Chevy (with lots of them being cars vs. trucks).

I, like others, have been through the "American Made" cycle of things too many times. Wife and I's first car together was a 1995 Ford Ranger 4x4. In the short 4yrs that we owned it I had to replace the distributor cap and rotor six (yes 6) times, front wheel bearings 3 times, clutch twice, suspension once, radiator once, alternator twice, and various other small odds and ends. When we finally traded it in during the Obama Clunker campaign it had an ECU issue that would not let it get out of limp mode. Ford had quoted us $6500 to replace the ECUs simply because they did not know what was going on. The wife's 99 Cougar that she drove when we first started dating had so many issues that her parents ended up calling the Ford dealership and telling them to pick it up and give them something else (how we got the truck) because it had NON-STOP issues since they day the purchased it. Luckily her parents have connections so it was handled fairly quickly.

When I was growing up I can remember being very young and my parents constantly having problems with the Ford station wagons they had. This continued until the purchased a Honda and they have been a Honda family since. They always told me to NEVER purchase American made unless it was something built prior to 1975 as at least with it being that old I could repair most of it myself and easily. Now with their Hondas we have run two to over the 300k mark before purchasing something new. The wife and I have been more than happy with the reliability of our Toyotas (Highlander, 4Runner, FJ60 and now the 100 LC) compared to what we have owned in the past.

 

[geanes]

The wife's 99 Cougar that she drove when we first started dating had so many issues that her parents ended up calling the Ford dealership and telling them to pick it up and give them something else (how we got the truck) because it had NON-STOP issues since they day the purchased it. Luckily her parents have connections so it was handled fairly quickly.

Same exact thing as my 99 Contour SVT. They were absolutely trash.