turbo8
Supporting Vendor
Agreed, it was sort of a joke.
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Full disclosure, pulling skids won’t be happening at this event. I'll have future opportunities.
You bet, I can make that happen tomorrow. I spent a bunch of time with a tape measure today. I'll grab a "battery loss" estimate tomorrow.
Very informative. They seem to have done a very good job of tucking parts up and out of the way of rock strikes. I recall that the 200 improved upon the 100 in this same way.
TexasFunRunner
SILVER Star
Is once per week enough, or will that lead to early degradation?
I’ll own that one and if given the chance to re-shoot or had I been given the power to edit/cut, I would certainly not have said any battery will survive the “life” of the vehicle. I fully acknowledge batteries are finite and use, temperature, storage, charge profiles, etc will all impact their lifespan. I can’t speak to what was going through my brain during that moment as I don’t recall saying that, but I’ve unknowingly said incorrect things on tours, on camera, on forums and I’m sure it will happen in the future. Always learning and not afraid to own that.
Tangent, but what is the life of any Land Cruiser? Many have heard or read that the service “life” of the heavy duty family LC is “20 years in the harshest conditions” or some variant of that dialogue. But even if that was a published value, that certainly comes with asterisks on all Land Cruiser models, Light and a Heavy duty alike. And really, what model Land Cruiser can’t survive indefinitely given an owners willingness to toss gross amounts of time/money at parts & repairs?
Some failed items just get ignored (seat heaters, power antennas, door lock actuators), others are mission critical and we are fortunate to have so much still available from OE and aftermarket suppliers imo. We simply can’t count on Toyota proper to keep these things on the road for even the years immediately following their production as even critical parts start going NLA in the decade following their production.
In a weird way, we are lucky if the weak-links expose themselves early on or at least during production. They can adapt and upgrade and often earlier models can be benefit. We’ve seeing this in hundreds of meaningful updates within the same Land Cruiser model. Axle shafts, pinion splines, t-case output shafts, tie rod ends, etc on the 4x Series, front axle housings and steering gear on the 6x Series, drive flanges, birfs and splindles on the 8x Series, front diffs on the 100, sector shafts on the 105, etc, etc, etc.
If problems appear with 250 in the coming years, I’m confident we’ll see fixes applied. It’s being done with the new Tacoma already. I know you’ve posted at length about the 8.2 vs. 9.5” diffs in the LC250 vs GX550 respectively (and I’ll be posting a great deal about in a few days too and we’ll all likely be talking about it again later this year), if that 8.2” doesn’t hold up to the LC250’s IFM, perhaps future models or upcoming trims could get the 9.5”, we’ll see.
I really like the 250 (and 550) for what they are and excitement about the “Land Cruiser” in the US has never been higher, this is a great thing for the longevity of the Land Community and I believe honors the heritage of the Land Cruiser. Do I wish it were called the “Land Cruiser Prado” in the US? Yes, because that would mean we also have the 300 Series Land Cruiser in market, but we don’t. This isn’t the first time Toyota has used solely Land Cruiser on the light duty variants, that in fact dates back to the split of the HD and LD line, so it shouldn’t be shocking to anyone imo. Plus who will the HD LC owners have left to pick on when FJC owners are done asking “is my FJ a Land Cruiser” or the KZJ/LJ/RJ7x have enough from the HD 7x owners?
So we can either like and appreciate it for what it is and is capable of or we can dislike it because it legitimately lacks in x, y, or z. But to dislike it purely because it’s not something we don’t have… is about like hating Arby’s because they wouldn’t sell you a cheeseburger, and it turns out your don’t mind eating their beef n’ cheddar anyway, i.e. dumb imo.
Hell, I might even be the first one to put a “Basically a Prado” decal on the new Land Cruiser. I’ve told exactly zero people to sell an older model Land Cruiser to by a 250 and I plan to sell exactly zero personal Land Cruisers to buy a 250 myself. That’s not to say I don’t plan to own one, but life’s faaaar too short for one Land Cruiser at a time imo. Anyone want to buy a clean GX460?
(This should give you plenty to quote my on throughout Mud these next few weeks)
I have a feeling if the 250 is a crazy success, they could reintroduce a bigger Land Cruiser in the future. Maybe merge the Sequoia and 300 into one vehicle and come out with something slightly bigger than a 300 when its due for its replacement in 10 years ( 400 series ) - but with better use of interior space, more like the Y63 NISSAN PATROL/Armada relationship and then maybe e just maybe that could make its way to the US again.
Maybe finally they can increase that ''magic'' wheelbase.
I say this because the current number one complaint from LC300 owners is it's too small ( not my complaint ) but that's the number 1 complaint they will get this generation that's for sure.
If that happens though, the 300 series will definitely be considered the last of the living legends, and the modern day 80 series...
see the cycle? Lol
All it takes is a new generation for the old one to be the best.
Maybe finally they can increase that ''magic'' wheelbase.
I say this because the current number one complaint from LC300 owners is it's too small ( not my complaint ) but that's the number 1 complaint they will get this generation that's for sure.
If that happens though, the 300 series will definitely be considered the last of the living legends, and the modern day 80 series...
see the cycle? Lol
All it takes is a new generation for the old one to be the best.
Thank you Kurt for your answer on that battery. It is an unknown for me. I would really like to think if I bought this car I could keep it for 30 years and never have to deal with the battery issue. It appears the price between the standard LC250 and the GX550 Overtrain is 2-3k and for me the hybrid/turbo is the deciding factor.
This! And really it’s our only real hope at this point. If the 250 continues to build excitement AND fulfills on the hype which turns into sales volume, they could look to more range of options. This will get increasingly complicated quite soon.
This. Many have heard me quip about this phenomenon. I saw if firsthand when the 80 was sold new, 1000% when the 100 debuted with the IFS and V8, the absolute zero fan fair for the 200 when the press release and drive impressions from their Big Sky, Montana reveal dropped. Cruiser Cult recently shared a 1984 photo of what appears to be a BJ73 or 74 coming off the assembly line in a ceremony of its debut. The accompanying caption reads “As of December 5th, we haven’t had much market reaction yet, but from what we’ve seen in domestic events and journalism, there are nostalgic voices lamenting that the toughness has faded, and voices calling it conservative. I think the general idea is that it will be accepted as a new era of 4wd”. Even the venerable 7x Series.
Huh?
What parts could you not get for a Toyota that was less than ten years old?
I had my ‘03 4Runner until 2015 and never needed a part that was unavailable. My 200 is a 2013 and I’ve never needed a part that was unavailable.
Now I do understand that for an FJ60 certain parts like dash covers and chrome trim pieces are not available, but those trucks are more than 30 years old.
So then it was your script instead of from Toyota marketing?
I look forward to this discussion and, given your mechanical knowledge of Land Cruisers, hearing your perspectives on some of Toyota's design choices, like the 8.2" rear diff; thanks for your willingness to wade into it here.
There's no doubt the 250 is a modern classic off and all roader. Many of us are disappointed that it didn't receive the heavier duty running gear, like the GX, in a more staid Land Cruiser trim. I hope that happens in the future, lifting key capacities like payload by three or so hundred pounds.
The running gear is engine related.
If the LC 250 ever gets the twin 6, it'll get the same running gear.
Both GX 550 and LC250 still have smaller diffs than a LC300.
With the LC300 even the 1GR gets the big diffs like the more powerful diesel/twin 6.
Curious to see if they go hybrid on the LX/300, will they use the 10.7 rear of the Tundra/Seq hybrid ?
I doubt it, might be too big.
At the end of the day you need the optimal size, weight, for the use of the vehicle.
If the LC 250 ever gets the twin 6, it'll get the same running gear.
Both GX 550 and LC250 still have smaller diffs than a LC300.
With the LC300 even the 1GR gets the big diffs like the more powerful diesel/twin 6.
Curious to see if they go hybrid on the LX/300, will they use the 10.7 rear of the Tundra/Seq hybrid ?
I doubt it, might be too big.
At the end of the day you need the optimal size, weight, for the use of the vehicle.
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I think just about everyone who participates in this excellent forum does so out of a deep respect even love for the Landcruiser. There are as many ways to love, as there are human beings. But just because one loves differently than another, that love cannot ever be construed as hate. And if anything is dumb, it is to qualify another man’s love as hate because it is different than yours.
In the next months, we will have three new Toyotas SUVs to admire. Some of us who love Landcruisers wanted to see one of them be a full on, modern utility vehicle, a technologically updated 70 series, a sports car for those who need no roads, no limits, and who accept no barriers. It doesn’t appear like we will be getting that one. Doubters will say that there is “no market” for such a vehicle. And the only people left smiling with relief by this turn of events are executives at Ford and Jeep, who frankly dodged a silver bullet.
If you have ever spent a good deal of time in Japan like I have, and I suspect you have too, you will know what the driving situation is in that very crowded country. All the myths about how an updated 70 series would “never” sell in such a market (or in the US/EU) were crushed when two years worth of production were sold in a matter of hours in Japan. Sometimes reality gets in the way of the most earnest and fiercely sustained narrative. And reality should be our compass.
I sincerely thank you for being a worthy champion and ambassador for Landcruiser in the world. In exchange for that respect, I ask for some of your’s on behalf of many of us who love Landcruisers just as much as you do.
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TheLCProject
SILVER Star
I thought, after pouring through the non-removed technical images, that I had summed this all up correctly. But I recognize that Toyota might change the specs depending on market.
Can you source your statement that the LC300 gets a bigger diff than the GX550?
I thought that the LC300 had the BD24 in all variants (which is the same as the GX550 except for some global variant of the GX550 which gets the even smaller BD21).
Random purported image of LC300 rear diff options.
The engine for a ~2015 URJ200. I don’t recall the exact month/year but we recently had a customer working with a shops insurance to replace the 3UR on a super low mile 200 that fell victim to a shops oil change mishap. Discontinued, no supercession. Obviously a savvy folk can interchange but standard part counter is going to say sorry, have you heard about the new Land Cruiser
If the only parts you can’t find OEM Toyota new for an FJ60 are the dash cover and chrome pieces, please share your sources, they’re significantly better than mine. Hundreds of OEM Toyota mission critical (ie engine, trans, t-case, steering and axle), what I consider critical (body/glass/HVAC/lights) and aesthetic/peripheral (trim & convenience) components can’t be purchased new at a dealer for 6x Series.
@TheLCProject
for starters the LC 300 with front locker gets 4 pinion vs 2 pinion ( without front locker - which is also applicable to 550 since it has no front locker option)
and
Ring Gear Size of LC300
front = 8.9
rear = 9.7
Ring Gear size of GX 550 with the twin 6
front = 8.7
rear = 9.5
Ring Gear size of LC250/Over seas GX with 2.4 option
front = 8.07
rear = 8.19
for starters the LC 300 with front locker gets 4 pinion vs 2 pinion ( without front locker - which is also applicable to 550 since it has no front locker option)
and
Ring Gear Size of LC300
front = 8.9
rear = 9.7
Ring Gear size of GX 550 with the twin 6
front = 8.7
rear = 9.5
Ring Gear size of LC250/Over seas GX with 2.4 option
front = 8.07
rear = 8.19
Asked/answered
LC 250 & GX550 Picture Thread
Looks like the embargo is lifted, like 15 videos posted in the past couple hours for GX550 reviews. I also saw new Land Cruiser ads of the 250 from the Toyota account yesterday on Instagram.
forum.ih8mud.com
Umm. No. We know it was entirely Toyota sponsored and that they had final edit approval. Maybe they just missed the incorrect ad lib of such an important point. It happens.Asked/answered
LC 250 & GX550 Picture Thread
Looks like the embargo is lifted, like 15 videos posted in the past couple hours for GX550 reviews. I also saw new Land Cruiser ads of the 250 from the Toyota account yesterday on Instagram.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
My opinion was that Toyota means the life of the vehicle to mean the warranted period of the vehicle. Remember the "lifetime transmission fluid"?
I don't think Toyota missed anything with what Kurt said. The hybrid battery will last the amount of time that the hybrid battery is warranted by Toyota (10 years/150k miles) Source: Toyota Battery Warranty - https://www.toyota.com/electrified-vehicles/warranty/
Many of us have historically bought our Land Cruisers well after that period ends (or many times over for the lesser powertrain warranties of 3yr/36k)
The question in my mind is that the 80, 100, and 200 have had so much design margin over actual usage that there has always been plenty of real, reliable life left after the warranty period to justify a high-mileage purchase.
Who here wouldn't worry at all abut a 60/80/100/200 at 150,000+ miles? I wouldn't! But I can't say that I feel as warm and fuzzy about the 4Runner, FJ Cruiser and the GX.
Maybe that's LC-bias though because there are plenty of those later three models with high mileage that are doing just fine.
This is where I think the GX550 is going to shine over the early year LC250s, with the GX550 reflecting the excess design margin of legacy Land Cruisers whereas the LC250 will feel and age more like an FJ Cruiser/4Runner.
It's not that it's not good or not good enough, but that it's likely not at as good as it used to be or as good as what Toyota is leading us to believe.
At least Kurt and I agree here:
Also, we can agree that it looks good in white with the rear end dripping wet?
I don't think Toyota missed anything with what Kurt said. The hybrid battery will last the amount of time that the hybrid battery is warranted by Toyota (10 years/150k miles) Source: Toyota Battery Warranty - https://www.toyota.com/electrified-vehicles/warranty/
Many of us have historically bought our Land Cruisers well after that period ends (or many times over for the lesser powertrain warranties of 3yr/36k)
The question in my mind is that the 80, 100, and 200 have had so much design margin over actual usage that there has always been plenty of real, reliable life left after the warranty period to justify a high-mileage purchase.
Who here wouldn't worry at all abut a 60/80/100/200 at 150,000+ miles? I wouldn't! But I can't say that I feel as warm and fuzzy about the 4Runner, FJ Cruiser and the GX.
Maybe that's LC-bias though because there are plenty of those later three models with high mileage that are doing just fine.
This is where I think the GX550 is going to shine over the early year LC250s, with the GX550 reflecting the excess design margin of legacy Land Cruisers whereas the LC250 will feel and age more like an FJ Cruiser/4Runner.
It's not that it's not good or not good enough, but that it's likely not at as good as it used to be or as good as what Toyota is leading us to believe.
At least Kurt and I agree here:
Also, we can agree that it looks good in white with the rear end dripping wet?
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