Deleted. Not worth it.
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Coming from a truck with an opening rear window, I'd like the option. Got to have something to gripe aboutHuh? The 200 didn't have a rolldown rear window either. My 4th Gen 4Runner had a rolldown rear window and I have to say that I've never missed it. I never drove with the rear window rolled down and don't understand why anyone would.
Absolutely still a lot to learn.My problem with most of this analysis is that it relies on a LOT of what-ifs that we don't know will be true. I brought this up previously as well. I think your price estimates on the 4runner are much lower than what we'll get based off of Tacoma pricing. TRD OR Tacos are already the same price as a 1958 edition. Expecting a new gen 4R Trailhunter to be 60k is extremely wishful thinking in my eyes.
That aside, there are valid complaints with the LC. My biggest being the lack of a roll down rear window funny enough. I think the LC will be well positioned for people who want a nicely optioned Toyota with decent 4wd roots.
I've seen this a lot as well on ih8mud, but AWD =/= Full time 4wd. It isn't the same system.
I love the roll down window. I had it down all the time. It's nice to manage air flow when you want windows down in summer. I roll down the rear window in my tundra quite often in the summer too. All windows down and sunroof open is as close as you can get to a convertible without having to remove anything.Huh? The 200 didn't have a rolldown rear window either. My 4th Gen 4Runner had a rolldown rear window and I have to say that I've never missed it. I never drove with the rear window rolled down and don't understand why anyone would.
In an SUV with the exhaust at the back of the vehicle, you are more likely to get the "station wagon effect" and draw exhaust fumes into the vehicle by driving with the rear window open. I owned my '03 4Runner for 13 years and I rarely lowered the rear window. I find that opening the upper portion of my 200 Series hatch is more convenient when loading groceries than waiting for the 4Runner's rear window to operate. I think opening the glass on the 250 will be similarly convenient to the 200 for loading groceries into the back.Coming from a truck with an opening rear window, I'd like the option. Got to have something to gripe about. It's by no means a deal killer for me. I just like the airflow when a rear window is open vs just 2nd row door windows.
I think the problem for buyers (I know it's the case for me) is that the American 3 aren't really competitors. Toyota has the reliable japanese off-roader market pretty cornered and they know that. I think there is an auto pricing bubble in general but Toyota will absolutely get away with pushing their offroad lines into the 60s imo. The 4runner still sells like hotcakes even pushing am almost 20 year old design consistently into the mid 50s.Absolutely still a lot to learn.
I think pricing is going to be limited by the market. There's only so high you can push on a midsize SUV with a 4cyl. Jeep is finding out the hard way right now. My expectation is current MSRP bumps around $2-4k with the next generation. A Ram Powerwagon can be had for $60k pretty easily (despite an MSRP of $70ish). A Ranger Raptor is $58k. F150 Raptors are selling at $5k under msrp now. Is a 4Runner TH going to be priced beyond market price of a Powerwagon? It's possible, but I'm skeptical that it'll be much beyond $60k.
Although - I suppose I should qualify that as $60k in 2024 dollars - who knows how long it will be before the 4Runner is actually on sale. Could be years from now.
By full time 4wd being different from awd - are you referring to the multimode transfer case as awd while the transfer cases with a center differential but no option for 2hi being full time 4wd? Toyota calls that "full time 4wd with mutimode selection" which is obviously a misnomer. It's not full time 4wd if it has part time 2wd. But that's Toyota's nomenclature. Otherwise I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Toyota calls the models with a center differential that do not have a 2hi option "AWD" such as the Lexus IS350 that shares the same center differential and powertrain layout as the LC250. Toyota calls the part time rear drive engagement models (ex rav 4) "Part time AWD." And Toyota calls the same system as the Lexus IS in something like the older Corolla "full-time 4WD" using the same terms as the Land Cruiser. Because it's the same thing. The only difference being a 2 speed transfer case in the LC vs a single speed in the Lexus IS. If you're meaning something else - I guess I'm missing what the difference is.
The 4th Gen 4Runner, 5th Gen 4Runner Limited, 200 Series, GX 550, and 300 Series all have a lockable, limited slip Torsen center diff, and a two-speed transfer case. So they have an AWD capability, but also a lo range, and with the center diff locked the front and rear driveshafts turn at the same speed, just like a part-time 4WD system. Best of both worlds, IMO.Generally AWD indicates lack of a low range. At least in every 4x4 circle I've ever been in.
It's always worth it. It's the internet.Deleted. Not worth it.
You might be right. I'm sure Toyota will push the price as high as it can. Just not sure if it will sell. Maybe it will. Tundras seem to be stacking up and not selling well right now. Same with 4Runners. The slowest selling cars on Toyota lots right now are the BZ4X (yeah - it sucks all around, no surprise there), the Crown (oddball styling I guess??) and then Tundra and 4Runner are 3 and 4 on the list with over 60 days of supply on hand. That's probably predictable for the 4Runner given everyone knows a new one is coming. The Tundra is more problematic. It's still pretty new and not selling very fast. Not sure how much to read into these things. Is it a trend or a just noise?I think the problem for buyers (I know it's the case for me) is that the American 3 aren't really competitors. Toyota has the reliable japanese off-roader market pretty cornered and they know that. I think there is an auto pricing bubble in general but Toyota will absolutely get away with pushing their offroad lines into the 60s imo. The 4runner still sells like hotcakes even pushing am almost 20 year old design consistently into the mid 50s.
Generally AWD indicates lack of a low range. At least in every 4x4 circle I've ever been in.
I'd love to see it slow down so I hope you're right. I think Tundra and Sequoia are way too expensive for what they are. That 40-60k range seems to be the ticket for high sales anymore.You might be right. I'm sure Toyota will push the price as high as it can. Just not sure if it will sell. Maybe it will. Tundras seem to be stacking up and not selling well right now. Same with 4Runners. The slowest selling cars on Toyota lots right now are the BZ4X (yeah - it sucks all around, no surprise there), the Crown (oddball styling I guess??) and then Tundra and 4Runner are 3 and 4 on the list with over 60 days of supply on hand. That's probably predictable for the 4Runner given everyone knows a new one is coming. The Tundra is more problematic. It's still pretty new and not selling very fast. Not sure how much to read into these things. Is it a trend or a just noise?
Probably right. Especially if Toyota goes with the Tundra/Tacoma language. But imagine this with a 4Runner front clip. Could be pure Toyota gold.I will also throw into the mix that I think the LC250 will look better than the 4Runner![]()
Cool mid-2000’s Jeep PatriotProbably right. Especially if Toyota goes with the Tundra/Tacoma language. But imagine this with a 4Runner front clip. Could be pure Toyota gold.
View attachment 3574026
Doggo. He loves it. Lots of air. Part of the reason, not only one, also I miss my 80 with the side windows.Huh? The 200 didn't have a rolldown rear window either. My 4th Gen 4Runner had a rolldown rear window and I have to say that I've never missed it. I never drove with the rear window rolled down and don't understand why anyone would.
We only have cats — they don’t appreciate rides in the car.Doggo. He loves it. Lots of air. Part of the reason, not only one, also I miss my 80 with the side windows.![]()
Not my work. But I'm also not really seeing the Patriot there although I'm not really remembering what early patriots looked like. Sure looks a lot like early 4Runner vibes to me. I don't think it'll look nearly as good as that render. The key design elements that are must-haves IMO are the forward angled C pillar, roll down rear window, and the octagon-ish shape front grill. I'd also say square ish wheel wells are pretty universal. And if we're being true to history - a saggy rear end.Cool mid-2000’s Jeep Patriot
Just out of curiosity i looked at TRD Pro tundra prices. Lowest advertised price I found for TRD Pro tundra was $66,072. That's about $5k below MSRP. I'd like to think that the TRD Pro tundra would sit $5-10k above a comparable LC250 or 4Runner. Not sure it's a better vehicle, but typically would be priced higher. For me - Tundra Limited with TRD OR package would be my sweet spot in the range. I see them well equipped around $60.I'd love to see it slow down so I hope you're right. I think Tundra and Sequoia are way too expensive for what they are. That 40-60k range seems to be the ticket for high sales anymore.
I'm not sure the inventory level is the result of efficient supply chain. I think it's probably the opposite. It's the result of a very lean supply chain that is also fragile and we're seeing the cost of such a fragile system in delays and lack of production volume. I'm sure Toyota would build more of its popular vehicles if it could. Days of inventory is a bit of a opaque reference value because it is a balance of sales volume and deliveries.Toyota has a ridiculously efficient supply chain. I read a report earlier this month from Cox Auto that said the average days of inventory on hand for automakers was 72 days in Jan, Toyota was around 35 days. With much less inventory on hand Toyota dealers won't be discounting much.