Help me understand the appeal. (1 Viewer)

[burtlively]

I’ll have a hard time considering another vehicle other than a Toyota/Lexus product. The vehicles I own may all die tomorrow, but we have a 2008 Sequoia (285,000 miles), 2008 LX570 (343,000 miles), and a 2017 Tundra (150,000) with the same engine. Not perfect, but extremely reliable for us. We also have a 2000 LX470 with 295,000 miles and I sold my 1996 LX450 with 300,000 miles (still regret that one). My grown kids have other Toyotas/Lexus with well over 150,000 miles with the same experience. Maybe I’ve had a unique experience, but for us the brand has been extraordinary.

 

[mobi-arc]

You seem to be up in your head about wear items that are guaranteed to fail on every vehicle given enough time. Every vehicle is a massive compromise between cost and quality, otherwise, nobody would be able to afford any vehicle. I've got a 2021 200 with 12k miles....too new for anything to break. I've got a 100 with 290k miles....plenty of things have broken, including starter and alternator, but when considering my 25 year ownership period, my overall cost of ownership on an annualized basis is extremely reasonable. Would it be less expensive with a Honda Accord....certainly, but I like driving Land Cruisers so it's a worthwhile tradeoff for me. I think perhaps your expectations were slightly out of line with reality....these are trucks...they break, but they seem to break less than other trucks, generally speaking. Should a radiator need replacement after 55k miles? Hell no, and that sucks, but keep in mind you may be a statistical outlier, or maybe Mr. Toyota shaves TOO much cost out of 200-series radiators and they just don't last, and when that happens, the aftermarket will correct it.

 

[a200]

I think you should keep it. Plan to be the best steward you can. Maintain it. Learn the quirks. Ride out the hard times and you will get to trust it. Pushing the limits of power, tire size, suspension is all going to have a toll that you will pay in time and money maintaining it.

 

[AeroAggie]

My take on the LC is this ( and I think others have also said similar in different words) - The appeal of the LC to me is that the big bones (frame, axles, engine, transmission) are generally oversized for the platform. There will be wear items and other failures of vendor parts, but the overall vehicle is maintainable and rebuildable far beyond any domestic equivalent vehicle. The combination of that with the baseline capability simply make this the most useful vehicle for more terrain for longer periods of time. It does come with a cost, for sure. If you're on a 2-5 year vehicle replacement cycle for grocery-getters, then you may have a hard time justifying the absolute dollars. Decide what your mission and budget are, and get the right vehicle for it. Maybe it's a Land Cruiser...maybe not.

My 2010 had a radiator failure, axle bearing failure, and it blew a head gasket before Christmas at about 200k miles. Under normal circumstances I would have rebuilt it myself and kept it for another 100k or more. But I don't currently have the time nor the facilities to do that project so I had to trade it. Even looking down the barrel of that $12k repair, the only vehicle I considered to replace it was another Land Cruiser, and I got lucky finding a 2016 close to home. I'm going to take this one around the world and back again for as long as I can keep it going, and when I can't, I'll get another one.

 

[PhuckItImDone]

I dunno. It's a truck/car. Truck/car go vroom. Sometimes it don't. Like any machine, it breaks. Sometimes planned, sometimes as a result of misuse. Walking, skateboards, Rollerblades, bicycles all also have flaws and drawbacks, failures you can't avoid. I can go to the forums of my other vehicles and watch everyone meltdown about the inevitable failures they'll have too. Just live life GTA style and steal a new car every day, then the problems becomes someone else's.

 

[Fj60+]

I’ve been where you are recently. I drove an 84’ FJ60 for 14 years and even though it had no ac, power steering worked half the time, ran hot, ran cold, max speed of 67.5 mph and got 9 miles to the gallon…and i f’n hated it sometimes. I loved it. Never left me stranded. I don’t get the same vibe from my 16’ - maintenance is a b and I worry about it, never worried about the 84’… it cost 15x as much as any LC I’ve ever owned and that’s stressful man, even though I am lucky enough to afford whatever goes wrong. I bought and built mine because of the reliability I expected and experienced in my 89’ ( dad bought new) and 84’. They are not the same truck.
However…
There is no equivalent. They are and will continue to be the best truck in you can buy.
If you think you got a lemon…sell it and buy another LC, or run it till it pops and fix it.
Cheers.

 

[grinchy]

I already forgot I replaced all four wheel bearings in the 215k mile range. No stranding, did have a rear bearing get looseish and ruin the abs sensor on that corner though. Drove it 200 miles over the pass without a thought to the shop for that fix.

That’s what you get , hard to kill.

 

[bloc]

The list of “common” issues seems long, but when compared to almost any from almost any other manufacturer it is very short. A Corolla would probably be more reliable.. but that’s nowhere close to the level of vehicle you desire.

Your late-20 teens cruiser is a bougie facade on top of a workhorse vehicle that was designed for Africa. But it was still built for 2017. The Africa bones are mostly solid, the stuff required to make it bougie in 2017 just adds layers of complexity and failure points. Unfortunately Toyota still did most of this on cruisers as well, but even with that, compared to any other vehicle, on average it is still basically the most reliable you can get. Other than the Corolla.

One thing I like about this platform is it is typical Toyota.. a few well-known issues that seem to impact a large percentage of a given platform, but those issues are relatively limited. Compared to almost anything from GM, Ford, Landrover, take your pick, that can have any one of literally hundreds of issues. For us, track those few things, and you are good to go.

I don’t think you are too far off in asking whether a lease is more appropriate. Your concerns mainly seem to stem from having to worry about things that don’t happen often, but do happen. And with a lease, you don’t worry about those.

But there’s lots of other good discussion here. My perspective is biased by truly enjoying doing all the work on mine.

 

[Supra Turbo]

Ouch, that many problems with just 9k miles under your ownership? that's not good.

I know a guy that just bought a 2013 Range Rover. It is super clean and low miles and I have to admit a really nice car with more tech than a Landcruiser of the age would have. It was 120k new in 2013. He bought it for 13k. A clean low mile 2013 Landcruiser is still worth 35-50kish and they were high 70s new. There is a reason the depreciation is so much less on an LC.

Paid mi-60's for our '13 LC a year or so ago. To us, not being stuck on the side of the road is true luxury worth paying for. Not the latest gizmos that will be dated by next year and only add to longterm decrease in reliability. Great resale is just a bonus on top.

 

[UncleClaude]

Hey guys,

Mal here, been out of pocket for a hot minute. Sorry, ive been really dealing with a lot personally.

I kind of need to get a sanity check though, can you remind me why I purchased this vehicle?
Is this platform really that reliable anymore?

This is my first go around "long term outlook ownership model" type s***, and im kind of already over it.
So, this is really the first time ive decided to take care of my own "investment" and wrench at home.
Ive learned an aweful lot, but I guess i now understand why mechanics dont work on their own vehicles...
Ive "seen behind the curtain", ive "seen how the sausage is made" and well, at this point kind of think i made a mistake.

I just dont understand the reputation of this platform being what it is, and an entire forum filled nothing but s*** going wrong on everyones truck.
Maybe this is a 200 thing? Has the hallmark LC gone the way of everything else?

I mean, everyone here is dealing with failures that i see every other make dealing with.

Starters, alternators, belts, pulleys, every manner of leak, suspension and front end components wearing at the exact same rate as the rest of the brands, interior issues, radiators blowing, engines sludging, chain slap and guides failing, wheel bearings, AC blower motors, and just about everything else every other vehicle deals with.
I think the only truly reliable component is the transmission if I'm being completely honest.

Am i missing something here? I feel like im just realizing I drank the f***ing coolaid myself, and im the biggest T hater on the forum as it was...

Im honestly questioning why i thought this car would be a wise choice but between the constant maintenance and the amount you spend on fuel I just dont get it anymore.
Over the course of the life of the truck, lets say 10 years of ownership, you have spent enough on the extra fuel alone to pay for a full engine replacement in a range rover. Twice over.

Can any of you help me off the ledge here?
For what i paid to be in a "dinosaur" of a truck, i could have bought a brand new Tahoe Z71 and still had the same overall longevity and most of the resale value.
Yes, they are bending rods out of the lot, but this is a gen 1 type of thing, which all makes deal with.
Just look at the new tundra reports if any fanboys on MUD are upset at the above.

Seriously about to go back to just leasing cars and not worrying about every tiny detail such as hand washing only.
Never mind the possibility of getting wrecked by an 82 yr old blind as a bat incompent old lady that blew through a stop in Houston and nearly totaled my M4.
Imagine if that were this truck, that ive put so much love and care and man hours into, just to be wiped out in a second.
Id be devastated. And insurance would hand me a equivalent used POS with god knows what history bc the price is equivalent on paper.

I just dont think this actually makes any sense, and since i know there are some prominent old heads here, i want to hear your take on this and get your honest unbiased advice, if at all possible.
If youve owned old trucks and kept them, or have fleet experience, or just want to hold my hand and tell me its ok, im all ears.

Mods please dont throw this post out, its a technical discussion, not a rant.
And thanks.

Here is the appeal: My experience has been nothing short of amazing. I CURRENTLY own:

2008 FJ Cruiser (original owner) - 193,000 miles
2011 FJ Cruiser NSSE - 154,000 miles
2014 FJ Cruiser Trail Teams Ultimate Edition- 78,000 miles
2020 Tundra TRD Pro (original owner) 40,000 miles
2020 Land Cruiser Heritage (original owner) 30,000 miles

All have been amazing. Nothing but basic maintenance.

I'm about to buy little brother: 2023 Lexus GX 460 Black Line Edition in Black and Boulder Grey. 2023 GX460 is the last body on frame V8......enjoy next year's 4 cylinder.

V8 GX460 is 2021 consumer reports #1 most reliable vehicle. In 2022, GX460 is #2 most reliable vehicle BUT #1 most reliable Luxury SUV.

Get the true old school engines while you can....

 

[04UZJ100]

WTF are you talking about?

 

[Killacaviar]

This feels like the second or third ledge you have asked the forum to back you off pertaining to the 200 platform... Sell it, leasing seems to suite you better.

 

[bj70bc]

There is a certain amount of zen you need to have owning a 4x4 and a 'love' for the pain of maintenance, but unless you learn to love the maintenance cycle as much OR MORE than driving it you'll never love owning a 4x4... any 4x4.... and a domestic is ALWAYS worse than a toyota, and thats why the work is always better absorbed if you do it all yourself.... try the other side ( all things being equal ) the grass aint greener my friend. Unfortunately the money you put into a 4x4 to drive one will never be a financial win, its just that a toyota is a BETTER deal than all the rest.
Im at peace with it.... it is a tough thing to come to grips with though,
pay to play tax
I love my toyota that will never change
( i own 3.... tundra and 2 7x LC's)

 

[bj70bc]

There is a certain amount of zen you need to have owning a 4x4 and a 'love' for the pain of maintenance, but unless you learn to love the maintenance cycle as much or more than driving it you'll never love owning a 4x4... any 4x4.... and a domestic is ALWAYS worse than a toyota, and thats why the work is always better absorbed if you do it all yourself.... try the other side ( all things being equal ) the grass aint greener my friend. Unfortunately the money you put into a 4x4 to drive one will never be a financial win, its just that a toyota is BETTER deal than all the rest.
Im at peace with it, it is a tough thing to come to grips with though,
pay to play tax
I love my toyota that will never change

And the gas issue is a toyota thing for sure, (tundra taco LC ) but would you rather pay for extra gas or extra parts.. your choice
The extra gas ensures that the engine is running in stoik and not gonna calve on you....

I do fully want you to sell it if it dont make you happy tho....i get it

 

[mmmahhmatt]

Hey guys,

Mal here, been out of pocket for a hot minute. Sorry, ive been really dealing with a lot personally.

I kind of need to get a sanity check though, can you remind me why I purchased this vehicle?
Is this platform really that reliable anymore?

This is my first go around "long term outlook ownership model" type s***, and im kind of already over it.
So, this is really the first time ive decided to take care of my own "investment" and wrench at home.
Ive learned an aweful lot, but I guess i now understand why mechanics dont work on their own vehicles...
Ive "seen behind the curtain", ive "seen how the sausage is made" and well, at this point kind of think i made a mistake.

I just dont understand the reputation of this platform being what it is, and an entire forum filled nothing but s*** going wrong on everyones truck.
Maybe this is a 200 thing? Has the hallmark LC gone the way of everything else?

I mean, everyone here is dealing with failures that i see every other make dealing with.

Starters, alternators, belts, pulleys, every manner of leak, suspension and front end components wearing at the exact same rate as the rest of the brands, interior issues, radiators blowing, engines sludging, chain slap and guides failing, wheel bearings, AC blower motors, and just about everything else every other vehicle deals with.
I think the only truly reliable component is the transmission if I'm being completely honest.

Am i missing something here? I feel like im just realizing I drank the f***ing coolaid myself, and im the biggest T hater on the forum as it was...

Im honestly questioning why i thought this car would be a wise choice but between the constant maintenance and the amount you spend on fuel I just dont get it anymore.
Over the course of the life of the truck, lets say 10 years of ownership, you have spent enough on the extra fuel alone to pay for a full engine replacement in a range rover. Twice over.

Can any of you help me off the ledge here?
For what i paid to be in a "dinosaur" of a truck, i could have bought a brand new Tahoe Z71 and still had the same overall longevity and most of the resale value.
Yes, they are bending rods out of the lot, but this is a gen 1 type of thing, which all makes deal with.
Just look at the new tundra reports if any fanboys on MUD are upset at the above.

Seriously about to go back to just leasing cars and not worrying about every tiny detail such as hand washing only.
Never mind the possibility of getting wrecked by an 82 yr old blind as a bat incompent old lady that blew through a stop in Houston and nearly totaled my M4.
Imagine if that were this truck, that ive put so much love and care and man hours into, just to be wiped out in a second.
Id be devastated. And insurance would hand me a equivalent used POS with god knows what history bc the price is equivalent on paper.

I just dont think this actually makes any sense, and since i know there are some prominent old heads here, i want to hear your take on this and get your honest unbiased advice, if at all possible.
If youve owned old trucks and kept them, or have fleet experience, or just want to hold my hand and tell me its ok, im all ears.

Mods please dont throw this post out, its a technical discussion, not a rant.
And thanks.

Thank you for putting into words what most all of us feel inside while dealing with the automobile, since it’s invention. If only we could transport like Star Treck. But since “they” won’t allow us to…

I come from a long lineage of self professed “car guys”. And I’ve owned many automobiles. And lusted after many more. Every vehicle I’ve owned, but no longer do, led me to the edge of the cliff you’re standing on.

For me, while bittersweet at the time, letting go DID provide short term relief. Financially and mentally. But may I offer my experienced perspective: After Land Cruiser ownership, everything else, while shiny and pretty, will leave you feeling empty and unfulfilled. Only once you let go will you realize the SOUL is what you are missing. Enjoy a passing fling or more. You deserve it and it feels good. For a while. After a break -up, some strange always helps your head space. But don’t be surprised when you come back, because something is missing.

I found this explanation helpful in educating others on the magnificence of the 200 series. Whether someone familiar with LC or not:



As to the issue of fuel consumption. Every 4x4 Toyota I’ve ever owned gets 15mpg. Period. ‘74 fj40, a grip of ‘84 fj60’s, ls3 converted fj60, ‘95 4Runner, 2k Tundra’s, one with factory SC, ‘16 Tundra, ‘18 200. Fifteen MPG. Some were faster than others admittedly.

While it’s fun to scratch your back on the neighbors lawn while leaving the occasional land mine, a good dog knows who his master is and where home really is. GLWA & see you again, sooner or later.

 

[Madtiger]

I did my research beforehand. Knew what the pitfalls are of LC and LX. Example: AHC maintenance, 2018 LC improvements, plans for off-road mods, etc. Bought new so that there is no question about maintenance. Peace of mind.

For me, my job is demanding. I don’t have time to tool around. Time is literally money for me. Anything that requires extra maintenance is pure fail in my work life right now.

I am a happy camper. I did have one major issue…infotainment center went bonkers and replaced under original factory warranty.

 

[05ls430518]

Why are people surprised it gets horrible gas mileage its a massive 6000 pound truck with a v8 christ all mighty.

 

[Tex68w]

@AnyMal, I question your mechanics judgement if he willingly drives a Duramax over the Ford and RAM offerings lol. Sorry to hear about your troubles and waning confidence in the platform. Maybe it's time to move on?

 

[Sverige]

My 2013 LC200 (purchased new) has had zero problems. The only issue is the gas pump. That f@#ker is my nemesis. $$$ bleed and a reminder that my fuel tank is too small. I hate you gas pump! ️

@UncleClaude What’s wrong with the EPA?

 

[TeCKis300]

I can't help but think some of this is self inflicted with your recent suspension mods. Most of us have been there when modifying, that something gets really hard and requires some mental and physical gymnastics to work through. The 200-series is not really a great place to cut your teeth wrenching with heavy, big, and complex parts and interactions. Add to that the apprehension after a major mod while shaking things down and dialing things in.

The bliss will come. But only after that "fun" of working through it.

I remember helping install a turbo kit with a buddy over a long couple weeks. He got the wastegate wrong. Blew the motor on the first drive. Months later and tens of thousands of dollars... He did eventually find his happy place but I could only imagine how close he was to walking away.