shtbrwn86
SILVER Star
thanks for this. I’m newly inspired where I was dejected last night. Now I just need to impatiently wait until I’m off work to give it another go!
Remove lower control arm on-frame No. 2 Bushing: dimensions and parts to do it are attached (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ccasey
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thanks for this. I’m newly inspired where I was dejected last night. Now I just need to impatiently wait until I’m off work to give it another go!
Oh....you'll get it. I have every confidence. Chin up!
That damn thing will tremble with fear when you show up with torch in hand and a determined look.
I just finished this project up this weekend. I don't recall seeing that spacer on the No2 bushing or on the frame side. Looking through the FSM it doesn't seem to mention it either. Anyone else run into having or not having this spacer? Wonder what the downside is to not having it.
I don't know the purpose of the spacer, so I don't know if it is present on every Bushing. I could imagine however that they are used to correct small tolerance issues (bring LCA's even with one another) from side to side. But who knows.
shtbrwn86
SILVER Star
Oh....you'll get it. I have every confidence. Chin up!
That damn thing will tremble with fear when you show up with torch in hand and a determined look.
LOL Well I gave it another go tonight and it just laughed at my and my torch. HOWEVER, I think the issue is that my socket is not quite the correct OD to sit on the bushing shell. It's 35mm, but I think it's just a touch small. Plus it's rounded on the bottom, so what I think is happening is as I apply pressure it wants to slide off the bushing and get all tilted. Maybe I need one of the the impact 35mm sockets instead?
On a side note, someone could probably make some decent money if they made a driver for this. The catch part is easy, but this having to find a socket/random piece of pipe etc is a pain.
^^^^^
Yes, if the socket is tilting then it will wedge against the bushing and tend to push it into the bore wall....making it even harder to extract. The pressure exerted MUST be axial. So a close fitting press tool (preferably with a flat edge) is called for.
If you have the new bushing in hand already, you might be able to take it with you and match the O.D. to a socket that is just slightly undersized. If necessary....grind the end of the socket flat (remove any bevel). Don't let that bushing beat you, this is WAR!
I googled the socket from the first post. pepboys has it.
Gearhead 35mm Socket, 1/2" Drive | 925644 | Pep Boys
Gearhead 35mm Socket, 1/2" Drive GH6262 | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Gearhead 35mm Socket, 1/2" Drive GH6262 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
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shtbrwn86
SILVER Star
Ordered this socket today. Sucks because there are no more pep boys retail locations, at least where I live. They are all just service centers now. Bought it off the Pep Boys eBay store.I googled the socket from the first post. pepboys has it.
Gearhead 35mm Socket, 1/2" Drive | 925644 | Pep Boys
www.pepboys.com
Finding an appropriate push tool has by far been the toughest part of the project and the thing that's delaying it. I took my calipers to the hardware store and none of the pipes looked like they would work. I took the calipers to three auto parts stores looking at various 35mm sockets and they are all too small (like the one I bought earlier) or too big (impact sockets).
The pep boys socket is slightly bigger than the one I have, so I am hoping it's good enough. I just need to wait until Thursday for it to arrive.
^^^^
Pretty much what I experienced as well. In the end....I took a hardened aluminum bushing I had and turned it down to fit the bore in order to do mine.
Probably never use it again, but it is labeled and tucked away in my toolbox just in case.
Snowing and cold morning, so killing some time. This was process I went through developing tools to remove and install these No 2 LCA bushing. You can just skip to end if just want to see final set up.
I came upon a particularly frozen in set of bushing. Every bolt on this rigs was giving me issues. The stabilizer mounting bushing bolts took 3 days of working them out, without busting them. Engine mount bolts, etc., all worked me hard. This rig didn't appear rusty, but did have signs of mud caked on long term. Mud seems to encase parts in a wet bath, drying slowly drawing in moister. History showed, it also spent some time in the rust belt.
My first attempt to remove No. 2 bushing of LCA from fame. I used a standard socket that fit well, but rim had a tapper at end. This tapper made it difficult to keep socket squarely on end bushing. The tapper of socket end, also seem to expand the end bushing as it pressed in.
So I stepped up my game, with a custom made machined pressing tool. IIRC it was @JunkCrzr89 first gave me the idea. Machined to fit inside bushing the first few mm as a guild. With a flat lip to catch bushing tapped end of bushing. Fit like a hand in a glove and self guided squarely. The flat lip of tool caught tapper lip of bushing perfectly flat. So no worry of expanding bushing and gave exceptional even/squarely set pressure on end of bushing.
I picked up a standard Powerbuilt Kit 46 Ball joint/ U-joint server kit from parts store (rental). It's cups and receiver are harden steel that will not flex. Just what I needed and saves buying more make-shift tools.
I than used a standard thread 5/8" rod from hardware store. Which was largest diameter that off the hardware store shelve will fit through center core of bushing. Now I felt ready to press out bushing.
I first just tried to press out, without heat. Well did not go as I'd hoped. The 5/8" threaded rod stretched until it snapped.
I was able to source a 3/4" No. ~8 grade bolt. One I felt would not stretch or snap. If my tools stretch or flexed at all, they'd lose and frozen bushing wins.
The 3/4" does not fit through bushings center core. So I removed core of bushing, which than accommodated the 3/4" bolt, using a standard 1 1/2" hole saw. Removing core of bushing, was also in prep too possible slicing inner walls of bushing if need be to get it to release. The 1 1/2" hole saw did not have the depth, to cut through entire length of rubber core. So I pressed out the core, ripping away remaining rubber core. Cutting rubber core made easier to press out using 5/8" rod. But I could have likely just pressed out without cutting rubber core.
Anyway I just went at it again, without heat. Bang! it pop and pressed out. The tool set up was now working okay. One draw back was, the 3/4" bolt. It required removal of the bushings core to fit through. That's means, more time and tools required during "pressing out faze of job", and 3/4" bolt would not be usable to press in new bushing.
What you don't see in this video. Is that I first had a box end wrench with cheater bar turning nut, and holding bolt with wrench. I cranked on nut, building a lot of pressure on bushing. Hit frame at bushing with my little air hammer w/brass tip just to add some vibration into the mix. Then I went to dinner, leaving press with pressure on bushing set-up. When I got back into shop, perhaps and hour later. I put my 3/4" breaker bar on the bolt end. The 3/4" breaker with adapters was too long to fit on nut end between frame and socket to shallow to reach nut. So just cranked on bolt end with 3/4" breaker bar, which can busted any bolt on a 100 series. Figured give it a try, losing some torque though bolt shaft. POP, broke loose in just a few turns, FINALLY! Got the bushing moving. 3/4 harden bolt with 3/4" breaker bar really delivered power. My my pressing tool really held-up well. Note also I had hardened washer at both end of press and grease threads and washers.
Note: I wrongly say in video, a 3/4" rod fits through bushing. Which it will not, without remove center of bushing/rubber. 3/4" rod or bolt is largest my tool would except, as was made from 3/4" dr socket.
I came upon a particularly frozen in set of bushing. Every bolt on this rigs was giving me issues. The stabilizer mounting bushing bolts took 3 days of working them out, without busting them. Engine mount bolts, etc., all worked me hard. This rig didn't appear rusty, but did have signs of mud caked on long term. Mud seems to encase parts in a wet bath, drying slowly drawing in moister. History showed, it also spent some time in the rust belt.
My first attempt to remove No. 2 bushing of LCA from fame. I used a standard socket that fit well, but rim had a tapper at end. This tapper made it difficult to keep socket squarely on end bushing. The tapper of socket end, also seem to expand the end bushing as it pressed in.
So I stepped up my game, with a custom made machined pressing tool. IIRC it was @JunkCrzr89 first gave me the idea. Machined to fit inside bushing the first few mm as a guild. With a flat lip to catch bushing tapped end of bushing. Fit like a hand in a glove and self guided squarely. The flat lip of tool caught tapper lip of bushing perfectly flat. So no worry of expanding bushing and gave exceptional even/squarely set pressure on end of bushing.
I picked up a standard Powerbuilt Kit 46 Ball joint/ U-joint server kit from parts store (rental). It's cups and receiver are harden steel that will not flex. Just what I needed and saves buying more make-shift tools.
I than used a standard thread 5/8" rod from hardware store. Which was largest diameter that off the hardware store shelve will fit through center core of bushing. Now I felt ready to press out bushing.
I first just tried to press out, without heat. Well did not go as I'd hoped. The 5/8" threaded rod stretched until it snapped.
I was able to source a 3/4" No. ~8 grade bolt. One I felt would not stretch or snap. If my tools stretch or flexed at all, they'd lose and frozen bushing wins.
The 3/4" does not fit through bushings center core. So I removed core of bushing, which than accommodated the 3/4" bolt, using a standard 1 1/2" hole saw. Removing core of bushing, was also in prep too possible slicing inner walls of bushing if need be to get it to release. The 1 1/2" hole saw did not have the depth, to cut through entire length of rubber core. So I pressed out the core, ripping away remaining rubber core. Cutting rubber core made easier to press out using 5/8" rod. But I could have likely just pressed out without cutting rubber core.
Anyway I just went at it again, without heat. Bang! it pop and pressed out. The tool set up was now working okay. One draw back was, the 3/4" bolt. It required removal of the bushings core to fit through. That's means, more time and tools required during "pressing out faze of job", and 3/4" bolt would not be usable to press in new bushing.
What you don't see in this video. Is that I first had a box end wrench with cheater bar turning nut, and holding bolt with wrench. I cranked on nut, building a lot of pressure on bushing. Hit frame at bushing with my little air hammer w/brass tip just to add some vibration into the mix. Then I went to dinner, leaving press with pressure on bushing set-up. When I got back into shop, perhaps and hour later. I put my 3/4" breaker bar on the bolt end. The 3/4" breaker with adapters was too long to fit on nut end between frame and socket to shallow to reach nut. So just cranked on bolt end with 3/4" breaker bar, which can busted any bolt on a 100 series. Figured give it a try, losing some torque though bolt shaft. POP, broke loose in just a few turns, FINALLY! Got the bushing moving. 3/4 harden bolt with 3/4" breaker bar really delivered power. My my pressing tool really held-up well. Note also I had hardened washer at both end of press and grease threads and washers.
Note: I wrongly say in video, a 3/4" rod fits through bushing. Which it will not, without remove center of bushing/rubber. 3/4" rod or bolt is largest my tool would except, as was made from 3/4" dr socket.
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Next custom tool set-up, worked even better and faster. Both to press out and press new in.
I wanted a very repeatable and fast solution. One that did not require cutting out the core or to slicing inner walls of bushing. Heating fame receiver, was of course one solution. Which heat can help break bond between walls of frame receiver and bushings. But again that's one more tool and one more step. Also in a really stuck bushing, it will require a lot of heat. Fumes from heat and open flame, can become issue in my enclosed space. Additionally even a torch with NAP gas, may not produce enough heat in all cases. I also really wanted to put tool to the test, on hardest I could find to press out. So no heat was used!
I'm ready to go at PS side now, it was now Friday of a long holiday weekend. The large commercial specialty bolt suppliers were closed for the weekend. I called around and got lucky. Found a small specialty custom nuts & bolt guy, that would meet me at his shop. He had a box of custom made ~18.2mm metric grade ~11 bolts with 10mm alan-head, that some customer ordered and did take all. Alan-head was nut idle for my tool set-up, but I was lucky to find anything for the weekend.
With both the 3/4" & the custom 18.2mm bolts, the depth of threads was limited. Making a little short on threads for the job, but workable. Little more thread would speed up the job, by 3 or 4 minutes perhaps.
So now arm with my custom made press tool and 18mm #~11 grade bolt. Along with Powerbuilt Kit 46 Ball joint/ U-joint server kit. I went about R&R of PS LCA No 2 bushing. Of same ball busting frozen bolt rig. Bushing was a "piece of cake" to press out and new in. I came very close to using heat, but wanted to give tool a good testing out.
Pressing Out, LCA No 2 bushing from frame receiver. I should have flipped bolt and crank on nut, luckily it worked without issue. I would have had, was depth of socket. I'd need a deep socket, which I did not have for nut size. So I just cranked on the bolt end. I was concerned I'd bust my 1/2" to 3/8" chrome adapter, but didn't!
Pressing IN, LCA No 2 bushing into frame receiver, and installing LCA.
Note: I did not torque in any bolts until wheel/tires on ground. If fact, I loosened them before torquing down to spec. This step is important, for a good long lasting job.
I wanted a very repeatable and fast solution. One that did not require cutting out the core or to slicing inner walls of bushing. Heating fame receiver, was of course one solution. Which heat can help break bond between walls of frame receiver and bushings. But again that's one more tool and one more step. Also in a really stuck bushing, it will require a lot of heat. Fumes from heat and open flame, can become issue in my enclosed space. Additionally even a torch with NAP gas, may not produce enough heat in all cases. I also really wanted to put tool to the test, on hardest I could find to press out. So no heat was used!
I'm ready to go at PS side now, it was now Friday of a long holiday weekend. The large commercial specialty bolt suppliers were closed for the weekend. I called around and got lucky. Found a small specialty custom nuts & bolt guy, that would meet me at his shop. He had a box of custom made ~18.2mm metric grade ~11 bolts with 10mm alan-head, that some customer ordered and did take all. Alan-head was nut idle for my tool set-up, but I was lucky to find anything for the weekend.
With both the 3/4" & the custom 18.2mm bolts, the depth of threads was limited. Making a little short on threads for the job, but workable. Little more thread would speed up the job, by 3 or 4 minutes perhaps.
So now arm with my custom made press tool and 18mm #~11 grade bolt. Along with Powerbuilt Kit 46 Ball joint/ U-joint server kit. I went about R&R of PS LCA No 2 bushing. Of same ball busting frozen bolt rig. Bushing was a "piece of cake" to press out and new in. I came very close to using heat, but wanted to give tool a good testing out.
Pressing Out, LCA No 2 bushing from frame receiver. I should have flipped bolt and crank on nut, luckily it worked without issue. I would have had, was depth of socket. I'd need a deep socket, which I did not have for nut size. So I just cranked on the bolt end. I was concerned I'd bust my 1/2" to 3/8" chrome adapter, but didn't!
Pressing IN, LCA No 2 bushing into frame receiver, and installing LCA.
Note: I did not torque in any bolts until wheel/tires on ground. If fact, I loosened them before torquing down to spec. This step is important, for a good long lasting job.
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I've been asked to make these tools available, by a few that know of them.
Hit "like" if you've an interest in the tool. I can match "likes" to views (Now at 2K views) and gauge interest. I can than work on getting cost down, based on interest.
If I get a enough interest to make it worth my time. I'll considering having batch of these tools made up. I'd tweak just a bit more, for easy of use and speeding up job.
The machine shop time to grind and cut harden steel (to hard for a lathe), and the high quality steel cost. Will make a bit costly for press tool, bolt and washers. But should last many hundreds of uses. Not applying heat, really put tool to the test, as I saw no wear indication on a tough job. In first video using 3/4" # 8 bolt, I did not show how tough LH side really was. It was a bear. RH side was cake.
I'd estimate time & materiel cost, to put retail selling cost ~$160. Depends on how many made, that cost may go down.
If you like to borrow tool, we can work that out (PM or call me). But I'd need fast turnaround, depending on timing. As of today, I don't do many of these bushings on monthly basis. But as our fleet ages, I'm sure I'll be doing many more regularly. So tool can't be out of my shop to long.
It should work fine for those wanting to replace both bushing, rather than replacing LCA(s). I'll check on that, to make sure it fit LCA bushing No 1.
Hit "like" if you've an interest in the tool. I can match "likes" to views (Now at 2K views) and gauge interest. I can than work on getting cost down, based on interest.
If I get a enough interest to make it worth my time. I'll considering having batch of these tools made up. I'd tweak just a bit more, for easy of use and speeding up job.
The machine shop time to grind and cut harden steel (to hard for a lathe), and the high quality steel cost. Will make a bit costly for press tool, bolt and washers. But should last many hundreds of uses. Not applying heat, really put tool to the test, as I saw no wear indication on a tough job. In first video using 3/4" # 8 bolt, I did not show how tough LH side really was. It was a bear. RH side was cake.
I'd estimate time & materiel cost, to put retail selling cost ~$160. Depends on how many made, that cost may go down.
If you like to borrow tool, we can work that out (PM or call me). But I'd need fast turnaround, depending on timing. As of today, I don't do many of these bushings on monthly basis. But as our fleet ages, I'm sure I'll be doing many more regularly. So tool can't be out of my shop to long.
It should work fine for those wanting to replace both bushing, rather than replacing LCA(s). I'll check on that, to make sure it fit LCA bushing No 1.
For what it's worth if anyone decides to do this, I'd suggest a couple of things.
But before I do that....I think the biggest hurdle for most DIYers is finding/constructing a well fitting 'press' tool, let's just call it the 'slug'.
It needs to have a flat end that contacts the bushings 'shell' all 360° around and has minimum clearance in the frame 'bore' to insure it travels through squarely. Once that issue is solved....most folks can find the other components locally or order.
Suggestions:
1. I would not choose a bolt (as a first choice) for a threaded device to receive the pressure that is going to be applied in this application. A couple of reasons for that. First the thread profile is not very strong for this purpose. A much better choice would be an ACME threaded ROD (5/8" x 10 ACME). Get it in 4140 Alloy Black Oxide and you'll have 125,000 psi tensile strength....or over 62 tons. ACME threads are very strong and not easily damaged. That is why you see them on Vises, Ball Joint Tools, etc... Second, most longer bolts are not easily found in a grade higher than grade 8, sometimes 10.9 if you go metric. We want a safety factor here.
2. IF you choose/need to use a bolt....don't apply the pressure from the bolt head end. You'll essentially be trying to Ultra-Torque a bolt that has to then undergo Torsional Pressure 'twisting' as well as the Tensile Pressure (pulling in the axial direction). If you've ever tried to loosen a bolt from an object with a non-captured nut on the other end, then you know its easier to loosen the nut end first. (generally). Using a threaded rod allows you to apply pressure more effectively and from either end (if needed).
Lastly, even though some have been successful using 1/2" threaded rod from a big box/hardware store, I submit it was a lucky experience. I wouldn't consider anything less than 5/8" diameter (which is the Major Diameter NOT the Minor Diameter/bottom of thread). That is why so many folks have pulled a 1/2" rod in two.
I'd love to see someone come up with a handy 'kit' and encourage them to do so, but do design it for the 'worst case' scenario, not the average/ideal. And consider most folks (if DIYers) will only use it once or twice during the life of any vehicle.
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Do you think the cups and fine pitched threaded rod in a kit like this would potentially do the job? I bought a similar set up with this job in mind.
TIA
Amazon product ASIN B07FT2V4J4
TIA
Amazon product ASIN B07FT2V4J4
Possibly. It really depends on how 'attached' the shell of the bushing is to the bore of the frame. It literally creates a corrosive 'weld' and the 'break away' force needed to get the bushing moving can be incredible. I would use the largest diameter rod you have that will fit through the inner diameter of the bushing. And USE heat once you've applied a good amount of pressure on it . It can't hurt (though is not guaranteed to help either if the corrosion is too bad).
The advantage to that set you have is that it uses bearings to lower the friction and heat developed. IF the rods are strong enough....then I'd say yes, you can likely do the job with that set. Please follow up and let us know.
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shtbrwn86
SILVER Star
I'm curious if that will work. The OP stated that the bushing is 47.6mm OD. The kit says the sleeves have an "Outside Diameter from 44-82mm in 2mm steps" 46mm might be too small and 48 is likely too big. I think it just needs to rest on the bushing sleeve, which actually tapers in a bit more (.3mm). This is what the tool needs to rest on.
I actually got a measurement of 47mm for the main body of the bushing...
I actually got a measurement of 47mm for the main body of the bushing...
shtbrwn86
SILVER Star
If my measurements are more accurate then I think it will work fine...well, as long as it doesn't get crushed!
Yes, I agree, a bit of the hot wrench, and some penetrating oil has to help once the pressure is already on it. Soaking ahead of time can't hurt either. My truck has been in dry country its entire life, which maybe helps too.
Not able to tackle this yet, but hope to in the next couple of months.
R.
Not able to tackle this yet, but hope to in the next couple of months.
R.
Mine is a Texas truck all its life, much of that time garaged to boot, but it still had some rust in this area. Minimal when compared to some others though.
Still ....the #2 bushings were far and away the easiest on mine to replace.
I bought that exact tool kit off of ebay for $92 shipped. Got all front and rear bushings done on a 3rd gen 4runner with the help of that kit. Spray WD40 several times each day for a week or so to break any rust.
2001LC, did you use OEM LCA? Mine is at 238K and feel very tight on front suspension.
2001LC, did you use OEM LCA? Mine is at 238K and feel very tight on front suspension.
