So upgraded birfs..... (1 Viewer)

[80t0ylc]

I think a 24 spline is plenty strong enough; that’s what did this and it was used on the next birf which went in as well....

Wow! What event did that to your CV joint?! I bet it made some noise...

@scottryana did you pull that thing apart yet to show us the grooves in that soft metal?

I agree, I'd like to see the grooves....Pics are worth a thousand words

 

[scottryana]

Dude buy whatever you want at this point I am done trying to be helpful. You have people like myself that spent a lot of time researching or Fj55-100 that has over 200000 miles with aftermarket birfs telling you the same thing.

Wow! What event did that to your CV joint?! I bet it made some noise...


I agree, I'd like to see the grooves....Pics are worth a thousand words

 

[richardlillard1]

Dude buy whatever you want at this point I am done trying to be helpful. You have people like myself that spent a lot of time researching or Fj55-100 that has over 200000 miles with aftermarket birfs telling you the same thing.

Me doth think you protest too much.

Stop offering hypothetical crap as answers and give us some actual evidence. The fact that you refuse while the proof is inside your axle makes me wonder if you’re even buying your brand at this point.

Or are you worried that nothing is there and people will mock you for not knowing how to seat an inner axle seal properly?

 

[scottryana]

Yeah thats what I think.

I said I would pull it down when I moved, but at this point there is no reason to. I already know what I will find. Unlike many people think this is not rocket science. It is a front end rebuild. You have a constantly spinning softer shaft on a seal surface and the RCV's now are not even nickel plated so I imagine wear even faster than Bobby's quote of 60,000 miles.

Me doth think you protest too much.

Stop offering hypothetical crap as answers and give us some actual evidence. The fact that you refuse while the proof is inside your axle makes me wonder if you’re even buying your brand at this point.

Or are you worried that nothing is there and people will mock you for not knowing how to seat an inner axle seal properly?

 

[nukegoat]

Holding up in what way? Yes there is plenty of examples and data (The chart was already posted along with a link to the test) that they hold up better under significantly more load because they are stronger. There is incidental data that they wear faster because they are heat treated to be softer. Not really sure how much more clear to make it.

You could just shut all of us up by posting your severely worn seal surface. I'd drop it real fast if you are supporting your thread with evidence. But now there's 5+ pages of comments that will make the lay person think that aftermarket birfields are going to leak because of your speculation.

There's a lot more to materials engineering than "stronger" and "softer." I don't think just because a shaft is "softer" (which, TBH, I sort of question whether that's true in this case - yield strength and HRC are highly correlated anyway, but it may be true. I don't know) that it will be stronger, nor do I think that the sort of abrasive wear you would see on a seal surface would really care if the shaft was HRC 58 or HRC 63.

Nor are they trade-offs, as you stated in another post. You can have soft and weak materials that aren't even all that ductile. And at the end of the day, you started this thread by saying that the soft seal surface of your 300M inner shaft wore through and leaked, and that's the name of the game for aftermarket birfs. Tribology is WAYYYyyyyy more complicated than that. If it wasn't we wouldn't have millions of dollars of engineering going into seals, polymers, and so on.

Anyway, you seem indignant that we're just not taking your word for your initial claim. I don't really get that, especially for someone as technically savvy as yourself. It's more my game to do the aloof thing

 

[80t0ylc]

Dude buy whatever you want at this point I am done trying to be helpful. You have people like myself that spent a lot of time researching or Fj55-100 that has over 200000 miles with aftermarket birfs telling you the same thing.

Oh, I intend to. You have a good thread, here, with all the contributions and questions. And of course, I appreciate your efforts, as well. But, a word of advice: Don't contaminate it with your true colors.

 

[scottryana]

Well I guess we can all agree to disagree until I have time to pull it down.

 

[nukegoat]

Yeah thats what I think.

I said I would pull it down when I moved, but at this point there is no reason to. I already know what I will find. Unlike many people think this is not rocket science. It is a front end rebuild. You have a constantly spinning softer shaft on a seal surface and the RCV's now are not even nickel plated so I imagine wear even faster than Bobby's quote of 60,000 miles.

That's totally possible. But that's like me claiming I know for sure that something destroyed my head gasket without opening up the motor. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but it would be nice to show it first.

Plus you could probably just speedi sleeve it if so

 

[inkpot]

Outside - if it's gunna break...lol, but hopefully axle's not the weak point. Your info on size of shaft is helpful. I was thinking that it was significantly smaller diameter at outside spline. With going to 5.29s, driveline from 3rd to hubs will possibly experience more torque than oem designed it for. But, sounds like if axle and cv are healthy, weak link(s) could be elsewhere. I've not torn into axles yet, so I was asking for opinions from experienced mudders. I like your reasoning.

From the pic, looks similar to overlanding...lol. Glad to hear stock should hold up for my use. My aim was to prepare drive train for additional stress before breaking it on a trail with a group of overlanders in the middle of nowhere. I'm going to be tearing into both axles soon. I got rebuild kits for both from Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters. While they're apart I want to take advantage of the opportunity & do all I can, considering the mileage - 275K. New R&Ps, seals, bearings and evaluate condition of everything from pinion seals to grease caps on hubs, that's not replaced. Ken (Zuk), will be doing both my 3rds - and installing Harrop e-lockers also, since my 80 didn't have the oem e-lockers. Thanks for your input.

Nothing like OvrLanding. That little spot is way steep and the sides are very off camber: really hard to walk up. Your more than welcome to pull the trailer for us?

 

[-Spike-]

I already know what I will find.

Therein lies the problem. If you said 'I have seen x' it would hold some weight. When you say 'I'm guessing that x happens, so everyone should base their conclusions on x happening' that's pure speculation. You then suggested that you had somehow determined that the seal surface had definitely worn, and anyone questioning that was wrong.

You're assuming I haven't diagnosed the problem.

You were asked for evidence, or at least an explanation, and you blatantly ignored those queries until you couldn't anymore, then got butt hurt about it. Wah.

The concern for using the 'softer' metal as I understand it is wear in the CV joint, not at the seal surface. I find it extremely doubtful that a clean greased and oiled rubber seal is going to wear into a steel shaft in an appreciably shorter order than it would in a slightly harder shaft. Without pics of both sides I'm leaning toward premature seal failure and/or operator error. Come back when you find time to tear it apart. If the seal surface is really wearing that fast it would definitely be good information to have. However, there are other possible explanations for your leak.

 

[Kaninja]

I will probably put another 5-10K miles on it before I tear it down. Hopefully by then I will be out west again and doing it my own garage. Haha.

You mean you haven't put 5-10k miles on your rig since Saturday?

Thank you for this thread and the valuable information.

 

[mts2snd]

I read the whole thing and still don't understand what happened above that matters too much, but I'm new. So, I bought the stock replacement Birf's from terrain tamer for my 91'. they are going in next week, I guess I screwed up? or no I did fine? Oh well, it's what I have, and it's gonna happen. Hopefully it works out, if not I will come to mud and happily admit my error (s). but i'm new like I said above, so plenty can go wrong as I never did it before. but I have the FSM, great videos from here, and gosh darn it, a can do attitude. Ha! Happy Friday boys! chill.

 

[Kaninja]

@mts2snd you did fine. Happy Friday.

 

[80t0ylc]

Nothing like OvrLanding. That little spot is way steep and the sides are very off camber: really hard to walk up. Your more than welcome to pull the trailer for us?

Lol...I was refering to the trail & the trailer, not the spot. Present condition of my '94, with no lockers...raised wheel would be spinning madly...lol. I intend to remedy that soon with Harrops, so if we encounter spots like that, I'll have a lot of confidence before I put it on its side or break something.... Don't underestimate an old fart

 

[inkpot]

Lol...I was refering to the trail & the trailer, not the spot. Present condition of my '94, with no lockers...raised wheel would be spinning madly...lol. I intend to remedy that soon with Harrops, so if we encounter spots like that, I'll have a lot of confidence before I put it on its side or break something.... Don't underestimate an old fart

Old fart? Were you born in the 40’s too??

 

[80t0ylc]

Old fart? Were you born in the 40’s too??

1954 - sounds like at least 4 yrs younger than you. Been doing a few runs the past couple yrs with the ROF (Retired old farts) group on EP (Expedition Portal). Baja twice and the last was their Sea level to 7200 ft up here in Oregon. I'm retired, but work casual (called in) from my last job. It's a win - win....I can use the $ and am somewhat useful to them...lol