80 In The Snow - open vs viscous coupling center (1 Viewer)

[elbarto]

Hi,
I am hoping to be in the market for an 80 series in the next 6-or-so months. I plan to “stage 0” it (refresh engine, mechanical components, etc) then slap some Blizzaks on it, and daily it in the winter—paved roads covered in snow/slush/ice). I’m not really interested in offroading it…. So, we can leave any comments about locking diffs etc etc at the door.

I have spent plenty of miles driving in the snow with AWD with Limited Slip center diffs (Audi with TorSen, Subaru WRX with Viscous Coupling); But I do NOT have experience driving in the snow with Full-Time 4-Wheel Drive like the 80’s have.

As I understand it, the later 80’s with the HF2AV Transfer Case with Viscous Coupler, which I assume would behave similarly to AWD with a limited slip center diff. However, I don’t know how the earlier-HF2A-equipped 80’s would behave in the snow with their Open center differential.

Does anyone with experience driving both versions have feedback? Is the HF2A noticeably less-good in the snow/slush/ice? Where/how/when do you notice the difference?
Ive seen a few post of people converting FROM the HF2AV TO the HF2A…which seems opposite to me…viscous coupler seems like a good feature. Although I suppose the advantage of not having it is that it is one less thing to fail (VCs tend to wear out eventually and aren't serviceable).

Basically, I am uncertain if I should focus on trying to find an 80 with the HF2AV or if I won't really notice a difference with an earlier model with the HF2A. FWIW, I would consider to put a helical gear LSD in the rear axle, with either transfer case.

Thank you all.

 

[BILT4ME]

I believe you should overthink it a bit more.

 

[Railwelder93]

Not going to be a big difference.

 

[ppc]

I have spent plenty of miles driving in the snow with AWD with Limited Slip center diffs (Audi with TorSen, Subaru WRX with Viscous Coupling); But I do NOT have experience driving in the snow with Full-Time 4-Wheel Drive like the 80’s have.

Either version of the LC transfer case is going to be superior to what you have listed. There are other options between model years like engines, ODB1/2, ABS that are far more important to research.

 

[elbarto]

I believe you should overthink it a bit more.

Damn I don’t know if I should feel attacked, or feel excited because you get me.
Yes, I like extensively researching and over analyzing things sometimes

 

[flintknapper]

Damn I don’t know if I should feel attacked, or feel excited because you get me.
Yes, I like extensively researching and over analyzing things sometimes

Its not an attack....I can assure you.

Either will be fine. A Tcase with a VC (unless extremely low mileage) is going to be working only marginally by now. As you are aware... the center diff is normally 'open' so the VC is going to act as a limited slip (to the degree that it still can). IF it seizes for any reason, you can remove it with no ill effects.

Better to just do the Pin 7 mod and add a center diff lock switch. That way you can control locking the center diff in the Tcase which of course causes it to send equal amounts of power fore and aft and always turn both driveshafts at the same speed. With open diffs in both differentials the cruiser should be well mannered in/on snow. And you can select either high or low range, with or without the center diff locked.

 

[Njck22]

Not your question but if this is a dedicated icy/snowy road vehicle, look for a full-time 4wd with traction control(4runner or 100 series). If your heart is set on an 80, get an HF2AV and service the viscous coupler. But it won't be as capable as a-trac when it comes to sliding around on paved surfaces.

 

[gummycarbs]

IMO, the center viscous coupler is a great idea. But it's absolutely negligible compared to the 3FE to 1FZ-FE improvement.

'93+ vehicles are almost all ABS with full floating rear axle and 4-wheel disc brakes, 16" rims for larger brake discs, 1FZ-FE DOHC engine with more main bearings and an extra half liter of displacement, and OBD I or II.

So yeah, do I want all that, or do I for some reason want to avoid a viscous coupler?

As for effectiveness, how could it *not* improve handling on winter roads?

 

[elbarto]

Either version of the LC transfer case is going to be superior to what you have listed. There are other options between model years like engines, ODB1/2, ABS that are far more important to research.

Can you clarify how either TC would result in snow performance better than the Audi or Subaru’s AWD system
Yes, I’d prefer a newer model with 1FZ and disc brakes and ABS but they go for like 2-3x the price

 

[LandLocked93]

Since you left the lockers at the door, you'll only ever have at most 1.25 wheels per axle under power in this full-time 4x4. lol

 

[gummycarbs]

Can you clarify how either TC would result in snow performance better than the Audi or Subaru’s AWD system

You think a '91 - '92 80 is going to have better snow performance than a modern Audi or Subaru???

 

[elbarto]

Since you left the lockers at the door, you'll only ever have at most 1.25 wheels per axle under power in this full-time 4x4. lol

Go ahead and triple lock your rig up next time you’re in the snow. You can let me know how well that went from the ditch.

Don’t worry though, my truck can get all locked up when I want to dance that way

 

[LandLocked93]

Go ahead and triple lock your rig up next time you’re in the snow. You can let me know how well that went from the ditch.

It goes great every time I do it. But only up hill.
Wouldn't know about the ditch. You?

Don’t worry though, my truck can get all locked up when I want to dance that way

If you have that...why are you asking about an unlocked 80 (for street snow of all things)?

 

[elbarto]

It goes great every time I do it. But only up hill.
Wouldn't know about the ditch. You?

If you have that...why are you asking about an unlocked 80 (for street snow of all things)?

…Because I’m a car enthusiast and like projects…. And like many on this forum, I think 80s are a pretty cool platform

Also the truck isn’t the best in the snow. It’s “light” in the rear, so in 2WD it kinda sucks. Since It’s part time 4WD, so I cant just leave it in 4WD when road conditions are variable. Part time 4WD means you DONT have a center diff, which means that when cornering something has to slip to compensate…slip = no grip. Really Big turning radius in 4WD because of this. Love the truck, but it’s admittedly not the best chariot in the snow

 

[LandLocked93]

…Because I’m a car enthusiast and like projects…. And like many on this forum, I think 80s are a pretty cool platform

Also the truck isn’t the best in the snow. It’s “light” in the rear, so in 2WD it kinda sucks. Since It’s part time 4WD, so I cant just leave it in 4WD when road conditions are variable. Part time 4WD means you DONT have a center diff, which means that when cornering something has to slip to compensate…slip = no grip. Really Big turning radius in 4WD because of this. Love the truck, but it’s admittedly not the best chariot in the snow

Ok then, like the WRX and Audi, the kind of 80 - in the way you want to use it - will certainly have its own character. It will be a great project to learn it.
Actually kinda curious now your thoughts on it after a few hundred snow miles, as compared to what you are used to driving.
lol

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

I’m so confused. Cool platform yes, we all drank the koolaid. I think we can all agree that the robust design of the 80 shines brightest when off of the pavement.

What are you hoping that it will do that your subaru or audi or locked truck will not?

Given that you are a research oriented decision maker you must have encountered the many threads on the cost of ownership. Yes the 3FE versions will save you cash, but they are 30 years old. Need thousands of dollars in baselining worn parts, and are very tired looking inside from three decades of work.

Plus no seat heaters, heated mirrors, wiper defrost, etc. My 2010 Subaru Forester is my ski rig with studded tires and heated seats. It’s the least interesting platform ever, but for winter highway driving it’s solid.

I took the cruiser form NW Washington to Alberta In 2018. Roads were a sheet and it was -20 for 500-700 miles of the trip. The cruiser did great, but I drove it like my mom and went slow AF because it’s not a winter rally car…plus my butt was cold.

I guess it was similar to my 1st gen T4R, or 02 Tacoma, or 87 mini truck. It’s 4WD and the road is really slick so you go slow.

It’s the dedicated winter rig thing I’m stumped on…What am I missing about your quest?

 

[elbarto]

I’m so confused. Cool platform yes, we all drank the koolaid. I think we can all agree that the robust design of the 80 shines brightest when off of the pavement.

What are you hoping that it will do that your subaru or audi or locked truck will not?

Given that you are a research oriented decision maker you must have encountered the many threads on the cost of ownership. Yes the 3FE versions will save you cash, but they are 30 years old. Need thousands of dollars in baselining worn parts, and are very tired looking inside from three decades of work.

Plus no seat heaters, heated mirrors, wiper defrost, etc. My 2010 Subaru Forester is my ski rig with studded tires and heated seats. It’s the least interesting platform ever, but for winter highway driving it’s solid.

I took the cruiser form NW Washington to Alberta In 2018. Roads were a sheet and it was -20 for 500-700 miles of the trip. The cruiser did great, but I drove it like my mom and went slow AF because it’s not a winter rally car…plus my butt was cold.

I guess it was similar to my 1st gen T4R, or 02 Tacoma, or 87 mini truck. It’s 4WD and the road is really slick so you go slow.

It’s the dedicated winter rig thing I’m stumped on…What am I missing about your quest?

Yes, you are right, there is definitely decision bias in choosing an 80. Ive long had a soft spot for the 80-series Land Cruiser.
And Yes, you are right again. Money is involved to baseline/stage-0 ANY 80 series, whether turning your own wrenches or paying a shop. While the end objective is a winter rig that is reliable and grippy, half the fun is the adventure and challenge of restoring & upgrading a vehicle.

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

Yes, you are right, there is definitely decision bias in choosing an 80. Ive long had a soft spot for the 80-series Land Cruiser.
And Yes, you are right again. Money is involved to baseline/stage-0 ANY 80 series, whether turning your own wrenches or paying a shop. While the end objective is a winter rig that is reliable and grippy, half the fun is the adventure and challenge of restoring & upgrading a vehicle.

I’m tracking you now. Sounds like a fun adventure. I hope you find the one!

 

[SaturnAscends]

Yea I wouldn't overthink it. With the viscous coupler and AWD the 80 series is kind of like an overgrown Subaru on steroids.

I'm not sure an LSD or lockers would help much in the snow; I've heard open diffs were usually better in his application, but that might be just at high speeds or when the road/trail is cross-graded.

 

[PNWTreeOctopus]

The real challenge will be finding the 80 with the running gear you prefer and in a state you can live with...or afford to address. This would have been a more affordable project 5 years ago....10 years ago!