DIY 4.3 Re-Gear (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter TeCKis300
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- Thread starter
- #62
So I looked into this and almost changed my order. Hold that thought.
The newly available Eaton locker for Toyota applications and the 200-series, is still based on the design that Harrop licenses. As far I was able to figure, they're practically or actually identical.
I reached out to Eaton engineering about their new Elocker4 "direct acting" mechanism and they stated they're only for Dana 60/70s. So perhaps available in the future?
The Eaton/Harrop pin/ramp based 4-pinion locker is still the current product, and available in both brands. My Harrop freshly shipped from Australia has both Harrop and Eaton branding on it.
Ultimately, the Harrop was going to get to me first so I decided to keep it. Great to know there's a domestic option now for the same thing. Choose your poison and both are available from the fine people at Cruiser Brothers.
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bloc
SILVER Star
Curt seems to be of the opinion these are a somewhat common issue.. though I guess we can’t say for sure that the ones failing were never abused. Either way if yours are good you are probably fine leaving them. I’m with you.. they aren’t that difficult to get out. The problem becomes the other damage that can happen to the ABS pickup and/or housing if a failing bearing isn’t caught early.
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
Good info... I'll try to get some pics of the Eaton units.
great info here folks ! thanks everyone, for all the input! I have a 4.3 I got locally .. they are so cheap, hard to pass up.. I will be going the Eaton/Harrop route as well, so i'm taking notes!
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
Would you be able to measure the Harrop/Eaton Diff case diameter?
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
How about where the spider cross shaft is? I have 144mm on the stock case at that point.
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
The Harrop, same place?
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
That is tiny, smaller than an 8" mini truck 4 pin.... but they likely manufacture it from a higher grade of material.
- Thread starter
- #73
Can't disagree that the center section looks small. You got my curiosity piqued. Inspecting things more, there are other dimension at play and the difference may not be as much as first appears.
I think we're all assuming that the physical outer case represents the size of the guts internally and hence overall strength. That doesn't seem to be the case (sorry, pun). External dimensions would not be the primary critical dimension. The first clue is that the spider gears are inset on the OEM case substantially more. Whereas the Harrop are just about flush against the inside of the case
It's hard to measure directly without fully dismantling the diff, so these aren't exact, but what I could discern.
Measuring the side gear
OEM - approximately 82-90mm depending on whether this is measuring the base diameter or extents of the teeth.
Harrop - approximately 76mm, and the extents of the teeth are square with the base.
Win - OEM side gear is larger by a difference of 1/4" - 1/2" (6-14mm) depending on how one looks at it.
Case design
OEM - bolt through 2 piece unit with large cutouts and a seam at the spider gear shafts
Harrop - single piece case
Wash - Harrop single piece could potentially lend more stability and strength to compensate for being dimensionally smaller
Can't really get any measurements of the spider gear, but they are both 4 pinion designs.
Can't differentiate the materials, but OEM is cast, with Harrop being machined nodular iron
Other interesting aspects
- 200-series case is identical to the 100-series. No need to change a design that has proven the test of time.
TL;DR - Harrop may look smaller, but the critical dimensions are only incrementally smaller. There may be other design aspects of the Harrop that compensate for dimensional strength. Fortunately, proof in the pudding and I've not heard of any mechanical failures. Performance, no contest as the Harrop can lock.
I think we're all assuming that the physical outer case represents the size of the guts internally and hence overall strength. That doesn't seem to be the case (sorry, pun). External dimensions would not be the primary critical dimension. The first clue is that the spider gears are inset on the OEM case substantially more. Whereas the Harrop are just about flush against the inside of the case
It's hard to measure directly without fully dismantling the diff, so these aren't exact, but what I could discern.
Measuring the side gear
OEM - approximately 82-90mm depending on whether this is measuring the base diameter or extents of the teeth.
Harrop - approximately 76mm, and the extents of the teeth are square with the base.
Win - OEM side gear is larger by a difference of 1/4" - 1/2" (6-14mm) depending on how one looks at it.
Case design
OEM - bolt through 2 piece unit with large cutouts and a seam at the spider gear shafts
Harrop - single piece case
Wash - Harrop single piece could potentially lend more stability and strength to compensate for being dimensionally smaller
Can't really get any measurements of the spider gear, but they are both 4 pinion designs.
Can't differentiate the materials, but OEM is cast, with Harrop being machined nodular iron
Other interesting aspects
- 200-series case is identical to the 100-series. No need to change a design that has proven the test of time.
TL;DR - Harrop may look smaller, but the critical dimensions are only incrementally smaller. There may be other design aspects of the Harrop that compensate for dimensional strength. Fortunately, proof in the pudding and I've not heard of any mechanical failures. Performance, no contest as the Harrop can lock.
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bjowett
Supporting Vendor
Excellent, I was hoping you would look in there.
Another +1 for Pro Gear. Just had them regear my LC with 4.88's and harrups about four weeks ago. Totally satisfied with the results.
Currently traveling back to the east coast and no issues yet.
Currently traveling back to the east coast and no issues yet.
Not sure if this was for the OP or not, I went with front and rears since the fronts needed to be changed out anyways with the new gears. Plus I got a great deal from East Coast gears on a set of Harrups.
- Thread starter
- #78
Skipped a couple days there while I waited for the UPS man to deliver my Yota bearings and seals. Covid delays probably.
Looked into getting the diff built professionally by Pro-gear, but they are backlogged a few weeks out. Covid good for project car business?, likely. I've got time and tools. Diving in. @OTRAMM again with another master class in online tutorials.
Got the carrier setup with new tapered pinion bearing races. Magic tools needed are brass drift to knock them out. Bearing driver to drive in.
Looked into getting the diff built professionally by Pro-gear, but they are backlogged a few weeks out. Covid good for project car business?, likely. I've got time and tools. Diving in. @OTRAMM again with another master class in online tutorials.
Got the carrier setup with new tapered pinion bearing races. Magic tools needed are brass drift to knock them out. Bearing driver to drive in.
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- Thread starter
- #79
Working on the carrier side bearings. The bearing needs to be driven past the snout of the case. Not by much, probably 2mm. I don't have the right size pipe/socket/fixture to do the job. And can't drive from the bearing cage.
Came up with a crazy hair to make a tailored size ring from a length of solder. The right diameter for the race, and just thick enough that driving with a flat bearing driver would put pressure on the inner race. Wrapped the section around a smaller size socket, then closed the ends to the right diameter by soldering them together. Yes, it's soft, but with enough area, would it do the job? I had plan C and D ready to do the same 12 gauge thhn solid copper from romex or welding wire.
Woohoo, did the job like a champ!
Came up with a crazy hair to make a tailored size ring from a length of solder. The right diameter for the race, and just thick enough that driving with a flat bearing driver would put pressure on the inner race. Wrapped the section around a smaller size socket, then closed the ends to the right diameter by soldering them together. Yes, it's soft, but with enough area, would it do the job? I had plan C and D ready to do the same 12 gauge thhn solid copper from romex or welding wire.
Woohoo, did the job like a champ!
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I am so glad I didn't try to diy this. No experience and no special tools, and probably not even that gauge of solder around. Props to you @TeCKis300
