Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser

[GordJ]

Is anyone towing closer to the 8000-8500 capacity? I am looking at a TT and the shipping weight is about 6000lbs once loaded up I think we would be 7500lbs loaded.

I want to know if you feel towing closer to the max makes you feel confident or prefer to use a 1/2 or a heavy duty at those 8000+ trailers.

trying to talk myself out of just buying a fifth wheel and having to trade cruiser in for a cummins .

Our Cougar is listed at somewhere around 5800 lb.s dry. We pulled it to Dawson City, Yukon and back last summer for a little over 6,000 miles without any issues at all. '08 Cruiser with Firestone air bags. Biggest issue up north is remembering to not drive past a gas station because the next one is 300 Km's away. With 200,000 miles on the odometer (who came up with that word?) we decided that this year we decided that a new to us '14 LX was prudent and we are headed to Inuvik NWT because I've never been inside the Arctic Circle. I know the LX is supposed to have sway control but I don't know how to test it so I guess I hope to never need it. I don't remember what you're driving but a good brake controller and air bags and a Cruiser is good to go.

 

[linuxgod]

Dear linuxgod,

I have a LC200 UK Version Diesel 4.5 with using the hydraulic suspension system. Actually, I just bought the lift kit OME 2" for it, but I think my car could not be removed the hydraulic suspension. For that reason, some people who own a LC200 UK version like my car in my country never change the lift kit from hydraulic. Well, I have some questions for you that do you know how to replace from that to lift kit OME 2"? Is there override module? Should I use it? What do you think that? Thank you very much for understanding.

Cheers.

By hydraulic suspension I assume you mean AHC which allows you to increase or decrease your vehicle height by +/-2", and not the KDSS system, which is a fluid-based anti-sway bar.

I don't have a lift on my LC. My suspension is stock, except for adding a set of Firestone helper airbags in the rear springs. I followed the set of instructions at LandCruiser - Firestone coil-rite airbags - Project 200 to install mine. Note that in the US the hydraulic suspension is on the Lexus LX570, but the Land Cruiser has KDSS. If you have KDSS your install should be the same as mine. If you have AHC I don't know because I haven't looked under an LX to see how it works, but the airbags just fit inside the rear springs, so if AHC sits outside the spring and the rear springs have a rubber bump stop at the top like the LC, then they should work fine.

 

[tabraha]

We have airbags on our 470 and they worked fine. Determining the best air pressure for optimal results was the hardest part. Haven't had a need for them yet on the 570.

 

[linuxgod]

We have airbags on our 470 and they worked fine. Determining the best air pressure for optimal results was the hardest part. Haven't had a need for them yet on the 570.

Unloaded I leave them at 5psi, per Firestone's recommendation.

When towing I inflate them to 35psi, which is the max per Firestone. At 35psi they reduce the sag but don't eliminate it. I could probably run a bit less but with ~600# on the tongue the extra pressure has never felt particularly bouncy when loaded.

If you have a boat or smaller trailer with less tongue weight YMMV of course.

 

[blatant]

Thanks for this thread. Really good info. I'm considering picking up something like the following.

What are your general thoughts on things needed? I'm currently OME Heavy/ucs/ and 275/70's. I'm super green when it comes to campers and towing in general.

I've towed uhauls etc, but never anything this size. I stumbled on a WD Hitch on CL for $100 couple mths ago and grabbed it. It states weight carrying without spring bars is tongue 600 / max trailer weight without spring bars is 6000lbs, with spring bars is 14000 lbs. Given i didn't/don't have the trailer yet, I didn't dig into the tech of the hitch. What's all that mean?

As always folks, appreciate your insight and am glad to be part of this group.


Here is what i'm thinking of getting. 14r.

Viking Ultra-Lite Travel Trailers by Coachmen RV

Hitch Weight 347 lbs.
UVW 2509 lbs.
GVWR 3662 lbs.
CCC 1153 lbs.
Exterior Length 16' 4"
Exterior Height 9' 8"
Exterior Width 88"
Fresh Water 33 gal.
Gray Water 25 gal.
Black Water 25 gal.
Awning Size 10 ft

 

[linuxgod]

Here is what i'm thinking of getting. 14r.

Viking Ultra-Lite Travel Trailers by Coachmen RV

Hitch Weight 347 lbs.
UVW 2509 lbs.
GVWR 3662 lbs.
CCC 1153 lbs.
Exterior Length 16' 4"
Exterior Height 9' 8"
Exterior Width 88"
Fresh Water 33 gal.
Gray Water 25 gal.
Black Water 25 gal.
Awning Size 10 ft

For under 500# of tongue weight you don't need weight distribution, especially with HD springs unless you've got a LOT of rear cargo weight.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Since you are green to towing I highly recommend checking out a couple trailer forums. Lots of good stuff there on things like tongue weight, sway, etc.

Regardless of how prepared you are, expect towing to feel different. You'll realize that different doesn't necessarily mean bad. And as with many driving conditions, towing requires slightly modified driving styles.

 

[LCHardriver_02]

Just remember that regarding the published trailer weights that these are "dry" weights, which means that they do not include ANYTHING other than the trailer. (This includes not accounting for batteries and propane too, which would seem like a "standard" inclusion, but is not.)

You will need to calculate your total weight with everything and then assess whether or not a weight distribution hitch is required or not. Taking it to a local weigh station allows confirmation on your total weight too.

I am thinking that given what you have posted above, that you may find that a combination weight distribution / anti-sway hitch may be a good thing. Your total weight will probably be closer to 5500 lbs, once you fill your potable water tank, load "other stuff" and add batteries. My batteries weigh in at about 60lbs each... I have two 6V batteries in series, which are heavy. Add this plus your propane tank weight to your dry tongue weight, which will put it up over 500lbs fast.

I use a combo hitch on my travel trailer and it works great. Note that my trailer is heavier than yours by about 500lbs dry, but my total weight is closer to 6K lbs.

You will also have to keep the vehicle's gross weights in mind... take a look at this site for some definition help:
Towing 101 | Chapter 4 | Towing Capacity

 

[linuxgod]

You will need to calculate your total weight with everything and then assess whether or not a weight distribution hitch is required or not. Taking it to a local weigh station allows confirmation on your total weight too.

I am thinking that given what you have posted above, that you may find that a combination weight distribution / anti-sway hitch may be a good thing. Your total weight will probably be closer to 5500 lbs, once you fill your potable water tank, load "other stuff" and add batteries. My batteries weigh in at about 60lbs each... I have two 6V batteries in series, which are heavy. Add this plus your propane tank weight to your dry tongue weight, which will put it up over 500lbs fast.

I really hope on a 2500# trailer with a 3600# GVWR he's nowhere near 5500#! 3500# perhaps.

I have found that the first place you end up with additional weight is on the tongue since that's typically where the battery and propane sits. Also the WD hitches are much heavier than a standard hitch.

I do agree that everyone who tows should go to a weigh station since most people will reach GVWR much faster than they think, in part because as you point out the dry weight doesn't include batteries, propane, water in your water heater, AC units, etc. Sometimes it doesn't even include appliances.

 

[Sandroad]

I bought a Sherline tongue weight scale (for the trailer!) to play around with what trailer loading does to tongue weight. Where stuff is put in/on the camper makes a big difference in tongue weight. Of course the equipment on the tongue is almost 1:1, in that adding 150 lbs of batteries, wiring and battery box on the tongue adds almost that much to tongue weight. The "hidden" weight, like which tanks have what, is a real eye-opener. The fresh water tank (300 lbs full) is just in front of the axles. The grey tank (250 lbs full) is just behind the axles. The black tank (210 lbs full, ugh) is all the way back just in front of the rear bumper. Since adequate tongue is so important, I'm now more careful about how I load the camper and with how full the tanks are as I fine tune the 200+camper rig.

 

[linuxgod]

It's possible to calculate the weight without buying an additional scale. You just need a 2x4, a brick, a tape measure, and a regular bathroom scale. See the "bathroom scale" technique at Determining Trailer Tongue Weight | etrailer.com:

Bathroom Scale

You can use a bathroom scale and a box to measure tongue weight of smaller trailers. Place the coupler of the loaded trailer on the scale at normal towing height (Figure A). For heavier tongue weights, use the second method (Figure B). Be sure to perform these measurements on a level surface and with a leveled trailer.

To use the method in Figure B, follow these guidelines:

• Always place the trailer tongue 1 foot from the pipe on the support brick
• Multiply the reading on the scale by the total distance between the 2 support pipes
• Use a brick that is the same thickness as the scale so that the 2 x 4 is level when you weigh your trailer

For example, if the distance between the trailer tongue and the pipe on the scale is 2 feet and the distance between the trailer tongue and the pipe on the support brick is 1 foot, then you would multiply the reading on the scale by 3 to get the tongue weight. If the distance between the trailer tongue and the pipe on the scale is 3 feet and the distance between the trailer tongue and the pipe on the support brick is 1 foot, then you would multiply the reading on the scale by 4 to get the tongue weight.

 

[Dan Higgins]

I have use the technique and figure B. I also have a Sherline scale which I keep in the trailer all times. Both techniques work well enough and of course the bathroom scale technique is cheaper.

You are doing the wise thing by actually measuring and not just guessing. Of course if you can find a highway scales set up that you can drive over that can be very informative as well.

The water tanks are a big deal. When I am starting out on a trip I typically put about 10 gallons in the freshwater tank. The question is whether or not to dump before I begin my trip home. If there is a dump station at the campsite then I almost always stop because I don't want to pull a lot of extra weight around. But last year at a state park in Colorado where we were staying for a week, halfway through the stay the dump station was shut down. So we had to bring all that crap home. I could've found another dump station but it was a good opportunity to experiment with the extra weight. I had my Sherline scale so I use that to check the time weight. Only a 90 min drive home. All worked fine.

My tongue weight average is about 700 to 720 pounds. I have been using a Hensley wait distribution and anti-sway hitch. I have not tried airbags yet. I am changing to a new hitch this spring, April pride, with much heavier weight just to be sure bars. I want to see how well those work before I consider airbags. I tow a Lance 2285 w/ a GVWR of 6,000. Loaded for a trip it generally runs about 5,600.

 

[linuxgod]

I haven't tried the Hensley hitches, but after 5-6 years of pulling my trailer with a couple different vehicles I highly recommend the airbag setup. And also weighing your setup. Definitely weigh your setup. If you've never done so you WILL be surprised by it.

My Pro Series WD hitch is designed IIRC for a max tongue weight of 550#. I roll in the 600-650# range typically, so the airbags make up some of the difference. I typically run on the 3rd or 4th link, depending on if I have bikes and firewood in the front of the trailer or not. I can run up to 5 links, but I find the more I rely on the WD hitch to get my tongue weight below 500#, the ride is terribly bouncy. Running my WD setup at 4 links shifts about 80# off the tongue, and the airbags level me out for the remainder.

Someone around here would probably tell me to get a heavier duty WD hitch, but honestly I like my setup and did 3000 miles out to Yellowstone and back @ 75mph without issue (other than a lot of fuel stops). More WD means a lighter tongue as the weight is shifted to the rear-most axle of the trailer and to the front axle of your truck, and in my experience (when I'm running my trailer empty) makes highway travel squirrely. With a 5200# GVWR, I want about 12% of my weight (600-625#) on the tongue. Yes I know they say 8-12%, but if you've ever run 8% on a 24' trailer you'll likely agree that is too low. The light duty WD hitch gets me close and the airbags help support the rear suspension so that the rear springs act as if they're carrying about 400#, even though there's more weight back there.

Incidentally on my '08 Acura MDX I did a CAT scale weigh in back in 2015. Total cost was $12 ($10 for the first weigh, $2 for the second). First round was with the trailer attached and the WD hitch in use and on the 3rd link, second round was just the vehicle:

Weight 1:
Front - 2580#
Rear - 3360#
Trailer axles - 4400#
GWVR - 10340#

Weight 2:
Front - 2660#
Rear - 2640#
Trailer axles - N/A
GWVR - 5300#

So the trailer was 5040# (10340 - 5300 = 5040) and the tongue was 640# (5040 - 4400 = 640, or 12.7%). The Acura didn't have airbags though and the weight of the trailer hitch on the bumper was actually shifting weight from the front to the rear (3360 - 2640 = 720, which is 80# MORE than the 640# tongue weight, and which is accounted for in front axle of 2580 - 2660 = -80!) Yes that's right, even though my tongue weight was 640#, my setup was equivalent to a 720# (14.2%) tongue weight (on a vehicle designed for 500# tongue weight max, and closer to 400# with family in the vehicle). If you can't visualize why, imagine slowly adding 3000# of weight on the rear and as the vehicle squats more and more the front suspension stretches and the front tires begin to lift off the ground.

Depending on what's in my trailer, with 4 links on my LC my front-rear bias is about even, so I'm basically adjusting for the ~600-650# of tongue weight, which to me is perfect. Because 650# is more than the LC is rated for with stock suspension, the air bags help support the rear so that the springs are compressing when stopped the equivalent of about 400# of tongue load. But I'm carrying 650#, which makes the trailer very stable.

When I need to stop for gas at a CAT scale this summer and I have the time I'm going to weight the LC and trailer again to get an official number.

 

[Dan Higgins]

I would never suggest someone use my setup. A Hensley/Propride is not for everyone. Probably overkill. I just like the way it tows. But it is expensive.

I do want to find a convenient CAT scale this summer as I am curious about the weight on the front and rear wheels with the trailer loaded. After I get some experience with the ProPride I'll decide if I want to add on the air bags. One step at a time. This is also why I am waiting on a suspension upgrade.

 

[linuxgod]

After I get some experience with the ProPride I'll decide if I want to add on the air bags. One step at a time. This is also why I am waiting on a suspension upgrade.

To be fair, the airbags will help level you out, but they really won't do anything with the actual weight distribution, and they can make the ride a bit more jarring over bumps if they're overinflated. They are pretty easy to add though - the most time-consuming part for me was wiring up the air compressor.

 

[TeCKis300]

As a public service announcement.

Don't forget your car has a tow/haul transmission logic mode masquerading as the ECT power button.

 

[linuxgod]

As a public service announcement.

Don't forget your car has a tow/haul transmission logic mode masquerading as the ECT power button.

And don't tow in overdrive - use the "S" mode on your transmission to limit your vehicle to 4th gear (or 6th if you have one of those new-fangled 8 speed transmissions)

 

[Dan Higgins]

On a related topic, I was looking at one of the Expedition Overland videos and noticed they had mounted the brake controller (I think the same as I have) in the lower left corner of the glove box. Not very convenient if your need to use the manual lever in a pinch but that is rare and I am wondering if that might be an option for me. Sure gets it out of the way. Any thoughts?

 

[TeCKis300]

On a related topic, I was looking at one of the Expedition Overland videos and noticed they had mounted the brake controller (I think the same as I have) in the lower left corner of the glove box. Not very convenient if your need to use the manual lever in a pinch but that is rare and I am wondering if that might be an option for me. Sure gets it out of the way. Any thoughts?

I saw that too which really had me scratching my head.

One of the key functions and safety features of a brake controller is being able to "grab" the trailer brakes manually. In a situation such as the tail wagging the dog, trailer trying to overtake the tow vehicle, or simply testing the trailer brakes prior to cresting a hill before the descent, would need application of the trailer brakes manually. That's why it's important to mount it in an accessible position.

The glove box doesn't help here.

I will say perhaps they can get away with it as they're towing a relatively light trailer. For a camper or anything significant, I would absolutely have it solidly mounted in arms reach.

 

[Sandroad]

I mounted my Tekonsha P3 today. Found the plug (thanks to MUD) and mounted the P3 to the right of the steering column. There are 2 dummy switch covers there that I bolted onto the P3 mount. Then I just inserted the plugs back in the dash holes. It clears my knee and my wife's knee just fine and is easily accessible. And, no permanent mounting holes. I can just replace the dummy switch covers with new ones if I ever need to uninstall the P3 mount. (The P3 itself is removable just by unclipping it from it's mount.)