Switching form auto hubs to manual on a 93 4runner (1 Viewer)

[Randy88FJ62]

My friend has a 93 4runner and is looking to swith out his auto hubs to manual. He tells me he will get better gas mileage with the cvs not spinning and also says the manual hubs are stronger which I agree with.

Does anyone know what year mini trucks and 4runners to look for in a junk yard for these manual hubs?

Who has done this here on mud and do you have any comments?

-Randy

 

[NorCalBorn]

Can't comment on the change in mileage...mine's modded too much.


The swap's pretty simple though, biggest thing in your case will be plugging up the vacuum line and fixing the shift rod in the diff w/ a hose clamp.

IIRC the writeups are here and here and they cover everything needed, and as far as I remember those hubs are still in use today outside the U.S. so pretty much any Aisin hub will work. Specifically though they're the 79-85's if looking at a recycler yard. Be sure you open them up and inspect the springs and paterns, while also being sure to not lose the small ballbearing and spring just inside the cap when you seperate the hub.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I have an extra set of hubs from a 1988 landcruiser wagon. Will these fit on my friend's 93 4runner? A local club member said they wouldn't.

Can someone explain why they would not? I keep seeing a discussion between automatic disconnecting differential and automatic hubs on the threads I have been reading up on.

Thanks.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Norcalborn,
Thanks for the link and the reply. I read through your discussion about ADD and automatic hubs. I'm still unclear as to if my 1988 landcruiser manual aisin hubs would work for my friend's 93 4runner. If you have a direct answer for me on this question it would save me a good hour or two of searching for the correct specifications.

Thanks again.

 

[NorCalBorn]

Norcalborn,
Thanks for the link and the reply. I read through your discussion about ADD and automatic hubs. I'm still unclear as to if my 1988 landcruiser manual aisin hubs would work for my friend's 93 4runner. If you have a direct answer for me on this question it would save me a good hour or two of searching for the correct specifications.

Thanks again.

Yes I have a direct answer, not compatible.

 

[KLF]

The FJ62 hubs WON'T work. Different spline count on the end of the axle shaft.

Your friend doesn't have auto hubs, he has ADD flanges. There is no way manual hubs are stronger than the ADD flanges, but I would still swap manual hubs on. You need them from any '86-95 IFS-era truck. Very easy swap.

 

[HJ-45CrewCab]

Manual hubs is worth the effort. Cant verify mileage gain, but truck will ride smoother and feel a little more pep. Those differences are noticeable. IIRC, I did this to my 4runner in 1996. Also, modifying the vac system is not necessary, although with man hubs it is not needed and modifying it simplifies the system. I left mine stock.

The difference between all the hubs is the spline count. Look at this chart..scroll down for toyota and you'll see the differences. 79-85 mini truck and all Landcruiser hubs will not fit the 86-95 IFS.

Warn Industries - Premium Manual Hub Application Chart

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Thanks for all the info guys. It verifies all the info I've heard.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Locking hubs from 86-95 is what you need, no other parts needed. (This is just a confirmation... )

 

[85+92]

confirming you dont need to swap IFS spindles?

this needs FAQ'd I didnt see anything in it about swapping

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

No need to swap spindles, however, if you have Auto hubs you will need to get a set of lock nuts like this:

Though I don't think you need the flat round washer, just the 2 nuts and the star washer...

If you have ADD drive flanges, you just take them off and put the hubs on.

 

[85+92]

sweet it seemed to easy haha

luckily I have a 92 P/u in my garage sitting next to my 4runner so all the parts are 5ft from each other!!

thanks!!!

 

[Combat Chuck]

It's a good way to go overall, eases up the steering, and I see a difference of about 2-3 (3 on average) on my pickup, which isn't quite a 4Runner, but the principle's the same, less resistance. Also running in 2WD with hubs locked makes for a more squirrely ride on wet and icy roads.

 

[NorCalBorn]

No need to swap spindles, however, if you have Auto hubs you will need to get a set of lock nuts like this:

Though I don't think you need the flat round washer, just the 2 nuts and the star washer...

If you have ADD drive flanges, you just take them off and put the hubs on.

There's another thread in here with the necessary part #'s for that. IMHO, use the tabbed flat washer, you'll see why in that thread. Get all three and factor in the proper free play. It'll allow movement of the splines without binding up the driveshaft's possible extension.

It's a good way to go overall, eases up the steering, and I see a difference of about 2-3 (3 on average) on my pickup, which isn't quite a 4Runner, but the principle's the same, less resistance. Also running in 2WD with hubs locked makes for a more squirrely ride on wet and icy roads.

True, but I think Jerrod would agree here that most of the itme when the weather turns like that you're not doing over 45mph often. It's nice to just leave the hubs locked so you can go in and out of 4wd easier? Just remember to unlock them before heading out on the freeway.

 

[Chop Shop]

It'll allow movement of the splines without binding up the driveshaft's possible extension.

I dont understand this?

What do splines and the driveshaft have to do with wheel bearing nuts/washer?

 

[NorCalBorn]

I dont understand this?

What do splines and the driveshaft have to do with wheel bearing nuts/washer?

Huh? It seems to me that the term the FSM uses is indeed driveshaft as evidenced by this page I'll include a scan of. So much in fact that if you go into ToyotaTechDocs the page is called "FrontDriveShaft.jpg" !

Are you just asking for clarification or are you taking blind jabs b/c you seem to nit-pick certain people's posts lately for some sort of self vindication of your own knowledge even when someone is more experienced than you.

I'm a certified tech, stop with this stuff and just shoot me a pm if there's a question or clarification needed b/c this bickering's just stupid and drags this board down. That or clarify via pm if you have a problem with me or what I post OK?

 

[Chop Shop]

Huh? It seems to me that the term the FSM uses is indeed driveshaft as evidenced by this page I'll include a scan of. So much in fact that if you go into ToyotaTechDocs the page is called "FrontDriveShaft.jpg" !

Are you just asking for clarification or are you taking blind jabs b/c you seem to nit-pick certain people's posts lately for some sort of self vindication of your own knowledge even when someone is more experienced than you.

I'm a certified tech, stop with this stuff and just shoot me a pm if there's a question or clarification needed b/c this bickering's just stupid and drags this board down. That or clarify via pm if you have a problem with me or what I post OK?

I was just making sure yo werent talking about the propeller shaft.

(and PS, Im a certified high horse riding inbred asssholeish hasher)


so what does the tabbed washer have to do with driveshaft splines and freeplay? Not nitpicking. Just asking the same question cuz you avoided it with a character profile and some picture instead.

 

[ric]

Nevermind..




lets wheel damnit

 

[NorCalBorn]

I was just making sure yo werent talking about the propeller shaft.

(and PS, Im a certified high horse riding inbred asssholeish hasher)


so what does the tabbed washer have to do with driveshaft splines and freeplay? Not nitpicking. Just asking the same question cuz you avoided it with a character profile and some picture instead.

[Warning: TEQ-Tech Technobabble Sermon Follows..a bit long but hopefully educational]

If the driveshaft end isn't shimmed the back spindle bushing (brass toothed deal that the driveshaft also* engages into when the hub is locked centering the interface) will prematurely wear out. This normally will happen when the IFS is at the high ends of compression and extension, but when you improperly shim or completely fail to properly shim it cause the driveshaft to slam into the bushing filing away at it all throwing small brass filings down onto the shaft end which in turn then get worked into the hub and spindle grease, bearings, etc as well as eventually onto the interface of the spindle and hub chewing it all to hell. Also it allows enough space that even under casual driving conditions road and brake dust and other debris can make it past doing the same damage.

So the short version of all that is if there are no tabbed washers installed you allow up to easily 4-5 mm of opening to occur even while driving into your driveway which above all else easily and readily allow dirt and water to enter the hubs ruining good parts.

I see tons of non-dealership shops (as well as some dealerships) where the technician is new or just never knew why Toyota put those there in the first place to prevent this issue. I can easily walk around some events where people have an IFS and it is a guarantee I'll find at least 2 rigs missing them and have to mention this to the owner. They all think the extra space gives you more travel, but do the geometry and that small amount of mm's you get equates to very little additional travel in the final leverage and the gain is just not worth the part damage and money you'll loose eventually in repairs.

*Yes, the hub lock is a main interface, but this also centers up the input point preventing walking to occur on the back.

Picture a stick in a hole bigger than the stick and wobble it around, what happens to the outer surfaces of the hole, they get chewed up eventually.

 

[Chop Shop]

The shim you refer to is on the stub inbetween the end of the spindle and the and the bolt on washer/retainer on the end of the stub.

It sets the stubs endplay.

How does that have anything to do with the wheel bearing nuts and tabbed washers?

There's another thread in here with the necessary part #'s for that. IMHO, use the tabbed flat washer, you'll see why in that thread. Get all three and factor in the proper free play. It'll allow movement of the splines without binding up the driveshaft's possible extension.

This where I didnt understand. Even tho toyota and techs call it a "driveshaft" the real world calls it a front axle or CV shaft etc.

Then you mentioned axleshaft freeplay in the same paragraph as the locknuts/tabbed washers.

This confused me and two other toyota guys standing here. So Im sure it wasnt just me.

The axle stub shims are not tabbed washers and the front axle is not a driveline.

I was trying real hard to see how a tabbed washer (which only affects the wheel bearings not the axleshaft) would be used to set axleshaft endplay.

I figured it would really confuse a noobie even more.

Do ya see it now?