Carb/Dizzy Blues...

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Sep 17, 2005
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Where Bugs Shoulda Made a Left...
Figured I'd pose this to the community and see if anyone has any ideas.

Ordered a new dizzy and carb from Marshall a couple months ago. Decided to install the new dizzy first, got it installed and set the timing with my old carb with the advance disconnected; it ran like a champ. Timing advanced on acceleration, all cylinders firing, had oil pressure, etc.

Installed my new carb and it fired right up; no pumping the gas and cranking the engine over or anything. I checked for vacuum leaks by misting water at all hose connections and at the base of the carb with no issues. The cruiser also immediately shut itself off when i cut off the air supply.

I let the engine get up to temperature, adjusted the idle so it sat right at 650 rpm, and checked the vacuum at this point as well; sat right at 18 psi. The engine sounded great sitting in the drive way across the RPM range and the fuel bowl stayed filled right around the halfway mark.

As soon as I got it out of the driveway, it had a really really hard time getting going. The cruiser really wanted to die as soon as I'd try to move forward, lots of misfires and sputtering, backfires through the carb, and once it got going, it would backfire through the exhaust if I needed to accelerate. I asked Marshall about it and he sent me out a new carb.

When the new carb arrived, I swapped in the high altitude jets and repeated my install procedure from above. This time the cruiser won't start without pumping the gas for about 5-10 seconds and then I have to let it run choked for 4-5 minutes before it will idle without the choke.

It's having the same problem getting going from 2 paragraphs above. If I let it idle in the driveway for 15 minutes or so, it's not nearly as bad, but it still wants to die once I get going and it backfires a lot on deceleration. I tried the paperclip trick on the
secondary rod, taken it around the block a couple times and it looks like the secondary isn't opening at all.

I can't believe that I'd have two bad carbs, so I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I feel like it's nothing related to the dizzy as it's timed correctly, advances correctly on acceleration, and each of the exhaust ports on the manifold are blazing hot after a couple minutes of idling. I fairly certain I don't have a vacuum leak as I've sprayed water and starting spray all over my connections with no change in idle.

Anyone have any ideas?
 
is the timing right on the BB?

I think I recall that trolls dizzy likes it a bit advanced? I could be wrong... just something i recall from someplace

is the choke set correctly?

my rig i need to have chokes a lil while before its warm enough to idle on its own... but... mines a cuddy weber :)
 
Ive tried it both ways; right on the BB and it's currently set about a cm above the BB...

As to the choke, I assumed (maybe incorrectly?) that it came adjusted correctly. I've just put the cable in place and made sure it's not engaged when it's not supposed to be and that it closes when I pull the knob out.
 
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It sounds like a manifold vacuum leak.
Does it run better with the choke partially applied? If yes > vacuum leak.
Does turning in the idle fuel mixture screw all the way stall the engine? If no > vacuum leak.
Can you see fuel dripping out of the primary nozzle at idle? If yes > vacuum leak.

Spraying water does not find gasket leaks underneath the manifold if you can't get it up in there. You can also have a manifold vacuum leak from a cracked intake manifold or a bad power brake booster.
 
I'll check all those things here in a half hour and let you know. I'd be extremely pissed if that's the case as that means I would have cracked it when uninstalling the old carb or installing the new carb. Truck ran fine before I started to upgrade...

It shouldn't be the brake booster as I currently have that line disconnected and plugged...
 
Looks like good news (kind of).

It drives equally as bad, if not worse, with the choke partially applied.

Yes, turning the idle screw (the one near the valve cover) kills the engine after a turn and a half.

No fuel dripping from the primary nozzle.

Other up-front information to note:
This is my first time messing with a carb. What I lack in experience, I make up in following directions and instructions.

It sounds like a manifold vacuum leak.
Does it run better with the choke partially applied? If yes > vacuum leak.
Does turning in the idle fuel mixture screw all the way stall the engine? If no > vacuum leak.
Can you see fuel dripping out of the primary nozzle at idle? If yes > vacuum leak.

Spraying water does not find gasket leaks underneath the manifold if you can't get it up in there. You can also have a manifold vacuum leak from a cracked intake manifold or a bad power brake booster.
 
Another update...

Disconnected the vacuum line from the PCV valve to the carb spacer and plugged the carb spacer. Let the cruiser idle for about 20 minutes. Adjusted the idle speed and mixture screws per the FSM. Took it out for a quick drive, taking it to redline a few times. Secondary moved my paper clip ~0.25 inch. Still a little hesitation and missing and my guess is it's still not going to run as well as this unless it idles for 15-20 minutes...
 
If it was mine, I would do a complete tune up according to the FSM, including a compression check and valve adjustment.
 
What seems odd to me is that it was running much much better than this with my old carb and vac retard dizzy. I'd put my old carb back on to verify, but I had to cut the throttle cable end nub off to hook it up to the new one. Maybe I can figure out a way to rig it back on. It has newish plugs and wires in it already (around 10k miles) and I was planning on checking the valves this weekend, but I dont have the hardware to do a compression test. I think...
 
If it ran well before and doesn't now, it's most likely either that one of them is out of adjustment or installed incorrectly (most likely), or one of them is faulty. The final possibility is that there's something else wrong (valves, vac leak, compression problem) that was masked before.

I would attack them in order of probability. Triple check your timing, advance, idle mixture, idle speed, vac lines, etc.
I would drain the carb bowl and check for junk in there since more than one person has reported that problem.
Next I would figure out a way to reinstall the old carb-to eliminate both the possibility that it is misadjusted and the possibility that it is faulty. Finally, if the old carb and new carb have the same issues, I'd look into valves, compression, vac leak, etc.

Some auto parts stores have loaner compression testers. Failing that, you can buy one for $30-40.
 
Ok, here's how I've spent my free time this weekend...

Timing, set right at 9 deg (2 deg over BB).
Double checked idle mixture and speed using lean drop method, spot on.
Checked for vac leaks again using starting spray, none.
Checked pressure with vac gauge, sits right at 18 psi at idle.
Checked plug wires, all are within resistance spec.
Spark plugs in a couple cylinders had some carbon cake on them, so I replaced the entire set.
Checked valve clearances, a few were off by a bit, but overall they were in good shape.
Ran compression check w/ a loaner tool, 90 psi in each cylinder right on the button, with the exception of cylinder 5 which was at 94 psi. Seems low across the board, but I'm at 5k feet in ABQ, so Im not sure there.
Drained carb bowl, no bits of goodness in there.

Took it for a drive and it's running slightly better than before. It had probably been idling in the driveway for an hour when all was said and done, so it was plenty warmed up. Still sluggish on the low end and a couple backfires through the carb. I'll see how it runs after warming up only for a few minutes tomorrow morning and I'll see if it's drivable to work or not. If I'm still running like crap, I'll put my original Asian carb back on, check the tuning there, and see how I run.

If anyone has any further ideas, I'm all ears!
 
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Update from this morning:

Starts much better than previously now. Partial choke on start, let it sit for a couple minutes, release choke, idles just fine.

However, as soon I attempt to move forward (uphill), it still wants to die and sputter out, backfiring, etc.
 
I've received a few PMs asking if I found a resolution to my problem. Marshall is sending me out a new carb from his batch that will arrive this month. I'll pop it in place as soon as it gets here as it's duck season and I'm anxious to get out; I'll be sure to update the thread.
 
I'm in Santa Fe at 7300' but I run mine at about 14° BTDC and it loves it. At sea level I ran about 10° but up here she's a bit anemic at 10°. I don't think that's your issue but just putting it out there as an FYI. Down in the low country where you are in abq I'd probably run at least 12°. What are your thoughts on that pinhead?
 
subscribed. ive read too many threads lately with trollhole issues im terrified ive waited 3 months only to be let down. the new carb is mounted and the dizzy should come soon. new remflex gasket and freshly machined manifolds, new carb gaskets, new insulator, new choke cable. hope i dont have a problem like this but want to find out what the problem is here. keep us posted.
 
The trollhole on my 77 fired and idled smoooooth the first time I hit the key. Made zero adjustments and needed none.
Ymmv.
 
Time to update the thread! Got my replacement carb on Monday and just had the chance to get it put on today.

It fired right up with a little choke and I let it idle for a bit. I didn't mess with the initial settings, took it out for a quick spin and it backfired a couple times, but ran well otherwise. Used the lean drop method and ended up taking the idle mixture out 1.25 turns and the speed screw out a full turn. Took it out again for 10 minutes or so with no issues. So it looks like I'm good to go now! I'm sure I'll be playing around with it over the weekend and I'll report with any problems I run in to.

I don't know if Marshall does any diagnostics on returns, but I'll be shipping the two I currently have back to him and I'd be curious to find out what the issues with them were.
 
i finally fired my TH carb up for the first time 2 weeks ago and it seems to be working perfectly with zero adjustments. glad you got yours sorted out. now if only the dizzy would ship....
 
Amount of choke needed depends a lot on outside air temp. Check all the running at warmed up temp. Don't be afraid to leave the choke partially on as you drive it easy to warm up. Just eyeball the dist where it's at or mark it then go ahead and just leave it snug and advance it up a bunch to see how it runs. Don't be afraid to play with that. Easy to move back. Time it by ear at least to try it out.
 

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