Chevy I6 and Toyota Engines

[malcb]

Rather than hijack a page on an already long thread (Matts engine build) I though I would put this on a new thread.

When the topic of the interchangeability of Chevy and F series engine parts came up I remembered some photos I took in Japan at the TOYOTA Commemorative Musemum of Industry and Technology one of the Toyota Museum of technology . Cool pictures on this one too TOYOTA AUTOMOBILE MUSEUM .

I wish I had taken more picures, had more time to spend etc. but my wife was struggling after 5 hours or so which was sort of understandable. Only disapointing thing was the lack Land Cruisers - even got left out of some timelines, perhaps because they were not cars, F series engine in particular.

Light green engine is the 1933 Chevy I6, black one is a 1935 Toyta (might still have been Toyoda?).

Truck is a replica of a G1 which used the engine, also used in the AA sedan.

 

[nodaksn3]

Hmmm? Nice pictures. Thanks. Do you think they might have copied? Toyoda (with a "D") got a license to build the Chevy 6, and it became the 1F and 2F, and 3FE,......etc. The Japanese also built Pratt and Whitney aircraft engines and Hamilton Standard propellers under license. I recall an uncle telling me that when his plane was damaged during WW2, they went over to a wrecked Jap plane and took a part off of it to fix his. Not certain if that's true or not, but the Japanese developed the art of copying to a high standard, as did the Russkies with the TU4. And, as have we. Ned

 

[Trollhole]

Cool pics.

 

[beaufort-fj60]

i like the metal vac line

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

2x Cool Picts

 

[FJ40Jim]

The early toyota I-6 is a metrified copy of the Chevy OHV I-6 of the 1930's.

After the war, Toyota copied the 228-248-270-302CID GMC OHV I-6. It is a rare engine, one of only two engine families specifically designed & manufactured by/for GMC trucks. The 305CID V-6 being the other family. The GM truck (and 1F replica) differs from the earlier passenger car engine by being a few inches larger in height and length. They will interchange dissy & fuel pump w/ other chevy & GM products of the time, but they are easily distinguished by their WP mounting, which is 4 bolts in a semicircle. Other engine families used 4 bolts in a diamond or a square pattern.

It would be cool to get a 302 block, punch it .060 and bolt on the 85-later 2/3F head.

 

[Robert LaDuke]

Hmmm? Nice pictures. Thanks. Do you think they might have copied? Toyoda (with a "D") got a license to build the Chevy 6, and it became the 1F and 2F, and 3FE,......etc. The Japanese also built Pratt and Whitney aircraft engines and Hamilton Standard propellers under license. I recall an uncle telling me that when his plane was damaged during WW2, they went over to a wrecked Jap plane and took a part off of it to fix his. Not certain if that's true or not, but the Japanese developed the art of copying to a high standard, as did the Russkies with the TU4. And, as have we. Ned

My Dad worked for Pratt and Whitney in the early 1940's. He used to tell us a story about a group of Japanese visitors that toured the plant and got caught taking pictures with little spy cameras. A few years later they had a captured Japanese plane delivered to the factory. The engine was almost identical to the Pratt / Whitney.

 

[malcb]

The museum was great, my photos aren't great, with some more time I could have got some intersting shots. Some more below.

G1 truck was very nice, the only thing that let it down was the tray, the wood was too polished!

 

[malcb]

AA car was intesting - given it was like the second model the factory made it was quite ambitious, amazing hand finshed panels.

EDIT: The frame cutaway was automated to show the engine turning over so ignore the blue gear wheels and the electric motor!

 

[malcb]

Detail of the lights on the back of AA was interesting.

 

[FineWynsFJ40]

When at a local car show, I gazed upon a Chevy 235 I6 engine, and talked with the owner about the engine. I brought my 40 over next to his truck, popped the hood, and we compared the two. Other than the F engine weighing a couple hundred pounds more, the design and look is identical, fuel line routing, coolant line routing, placement of dizzy, etc. It amazing the Chevy guys there who were still "Japanese stuff is crap" mentality and they kind have admitted that they were impressed. It is neat to see them side by side and compared. I'll try to dig out pictures if I can find them.

Brian

 

[kitabel]

Actually, the resemblance to the Chevy "stovebolt" 235 engine stops when the valve cover comes off.
The F is a fairly conventional wedge combustion chamber with slightly inclined but parallel valves, whereas the stovebolt has a strange design with diagonally-opposed valves at different angles, and the exhaust valve in a "dog-leg" pocket hanging off 1 side of the bore - similar to the 1955-63 Mercedes 190 engine.

 

[kitabel]

Although all 12 Chevy rockers use the same shafts (on pillars), the stems angle sharply away from each other.

 

[batcon]

My Dad worked for Pratt and Whitney in the early 1940's. He used to tell us a story about a group of Japanese visitors that toured the plant and got caught taking pictures with little spy cameras. A few years later they had a captured Japanese plane delivered to the factory. The engine was almost identical to the Pratt / Whitney.

Reading this thread reminded me of the common slam against the japanese when I was young. They were copying everything from the U.S. and elsewhere, cameras, watches, T.V.s, ect. It didnt take long for them to make a better product for a lot less.

 

[joeyg1973]

Copy, do better, and overtake the competition used to be the name of the game in buisness. Now it's copy, make way cheaper, hire salesmen that will hock the crap, take a big chunk of the market share, and then sell the buisness to the competition you copied from so you can get rich and they can then sell inferior product at the same price they sold theirs for and jack up the price on the original and call it a premium product.

Damn I am sooo bitter about the state of buisness in the world today.

Nice pics though. Btw there is a reason that with very little mod one can throw a chevy straight 6 hei dist on the f motor.

 

[kitabel]

The F head appears to favor the Chevy 235 in 1 feature at least: the valve stems are parallel to each other in the crank axis (front to rear), but slightly diverge in the cross-axis (left to right), as shown.
What I can't determine is if either valve is vertical (and the other inclined by the difference), or are both inclined?
Does anyone know what the actual angles are?
This also means that, like the Chevy, the intake and exhaust rockers are different both for length between the shaft center and the contact pad (since the stem tips are different distance from the shaft) but also for angle.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Do a little more research.
That is the same (awful) valve layout used on all F engine prior to 1968. both the stovebolt passenger engine and the big GMC inline engine used the staggered valve layout through the end of their production. When Chevy introduced the modern inline-6 230/250CID engines, they had a proper cylinder head with discrete ports and inline valves. Toyota followed suit a few years later with the improved F of 1968.

 

[Coolerman]

Now that is one fine truck but WTF are these? Looks like they are designed to keep road spray down? Wonder if they worked?

 

[kitabel]

That is the same (awful) valve layout used on all F engine prior to 1968.
Sorry, not following you. I can't find a picture of an F chamber much different from this.
The valve angles, the recessed exhaust valve, the exhaust pocket over the block, which?

both the stovebolt passenger engine and the big GMC inline engine used the staggered valve layout through the end of their production.
Yes on the Chevy, but that odd chamber was never used on any GMC L6.
The chamber shape varied (2 different), valve sizes, port sizes, but with valves parallel in both planes 1939-63, very similar to the Buick L8 (and others in that time period).

When Chevy introduced the modern inline-6 230/250CID engines, they had a proper cylinder head with discrete ports and inline valves.
Discrete ports?
Except for the siamese intake (all cylinders) and exhaust (2-3 & 4-5 cylinders) ports used throughout the entire U.S. built series.

 

[MtnTrucker]

Do a little more research.
That is the same (awful) valve layout used on all F engine prior to 1968. both the stovebolt passenger engine and the big GMC inline engine used the staggered valve layout through the end of their production. When Chevy introduced the modern inline-6 230/250CID engines, they had a proper cylinder head with discrete ports and inline valves. Toyota followed suit a few years later with the improved F of 1968.

Jim-Has anyone tried dropping Chevy hydraulic lifters into an F/2F engine? Do they get enough oil bath to pump up? It would sure be nice if we could make the valve adjustment procedure go away.