TLC PTO vs. 24V Warn 8274

[smcruisin]

This question is mainly aimed at diesel folks -- How do you like your winches (not wenches!!)? For those that have used both TLC PTO & Warn 8274 with the 24V motor's: How do they compare in terms of line speed (no-load & loded)? Load capacity of a ~4 hp electric motor vs. 80-120hp diesel engine driving the winch head?

I know folks swear by the "get-out-of-jail-free" 8274's juised up on 24V, but the PTO's are easier (and cheaper) to come by these days than they used to be). I figure, just about the only time the electric could come out on top, is if you ingest water into your engine while crossing a creek (though if you're fording water that deep, add a snorkle & few other breathers, and you're diesel is waterproof) -- (also an electric winch may not like 4 foot deep creeks either).

Exactly how does the PTO opperate? Do you shift the T-case into neutral, then engage the PTO lever in forward or reverse? If so how do you find using the winch without being able to drive the truck forward with the drivetrain?

Ballpark figure for Cost?

burned-out 12V 8274 (core) $300
motor rewound for 24V $600?
new cable $125
solonoids & battery cables $150?

imported PTO $1000
modify the driveshaft for a 40 series $50?
new cable if needed $100-150
stronger shear bolt (the 'fuse') ?

Any other personal winch thoughts or opinions welcome.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[crushers]

PTO has a strong cool factor but the 8274 is the cat's meow and the JDM 8274 replica has a built in overload protector
PTO reduces approach angle
PTO has no ability to le tyou know when you are pulling to much
PTO pin is a pain ro change the sheer pin (and you will break it)
PTO has u/joints and too many moving parts

8274 has a fast no load rewind speed. 12V on 24 is unbeleivably fast and strong
8274 will not let you down
8274 can be placed anywhere you wish to mount it
8274 is lighter than the PTO

just my opinion of course
cheers

 

[Stone]

Hhmm...using a 12v winch in a 24v system might not be a great idea. According to Ohm's law, you would put double the amperage through the 12v motor by supplying it with 24v power, although your Wattage quadruples in the process. This explains why it works so well, but it sure wouldn't last any length of time that way...I would imagine.

About the only thing I don't like about my PTO is that it sticks out so bloody far on my front end and drastically decreasing my approach angle. I had the chance to pull a Toyota minitruck about 120' up a hill recently in snow. He was stuck in a grassy depression and couldn't get out. My PTO pulled strong and didn't even feel like it was under much load. I used 4th gear to pull him out and kept the engine at about 1800 RPMs.

 

[iron_giant]

Not to steal the thread but my newly aquired hj60 has a 12 volt 8274 running off of the first battery (of a 24v system). According to my reading here and very limited knowledge of electrics, this is not a good idea at all. I noticed in the first post that you mentioned getting the motor rewound for 24volt. What exactly does this mean and where might one have this done?

thanks

-david

 

[Greg_B]

AFAIK it's better to get a 24V motor and swap it in, rather then trying a rewind to 24V. Sheldon has converted a number of 12V winches to 24V, and has all the details, part numbers and stuff. Shoot him a private message (70sguy).

gb

 

[cruiser_guy]

I like the PTO because it's useless to all but those who have a matching 'Cruiser or a PTO takeoff (makes it not worth stealing which is a BIG plus down here!) The big porch bumper also helps when someone wants to cut you off (they see that big bumper hanging out there and they think twice!). It also makes a great place to sit while waiting for things to happen like the 6 hours at the border the last time.
It works by placing the transfer in neutral. You have all the gears available to you. My PTO ONLY powers in, unless you are in reverse of course.

 

[crushers]

Hhmm...using a 12v winch in a 24v system might not be a great idea. According to Ohm's law, you would put double the amperage through the 12v motor by supplying it with 24v power, although your Wattage quadruples in the process. This explains why it works so well, but it sure wouldn't last any length of time that way...I would imagine.

About the only thing I don't like about my PTO is that it sticks out so bloody far on my front end and drastically decreasing my approach angle. I had the chance to pull a Toyota minitruck about 120' up a hill recently in snow. He was stuck in a grassy depression and couldn't get out. My PTO pulled strong and didn't even feel like it was under much load. I used 4th gear to pull him out and kept the engine at about 1800 RPMs.

i am sure you are right but i am going into my second year with this setup and i have done some serious pulls with it...
cheers

 

[Stone]

i am sure you are right but i am going into my second year with this setup and i have done some serious pulls with it...
cheers

On paper it looks like it wouldn't last very long. But...seems to be working well for you, Wayne. And who can argue with real life evidence?

 

[crushers]

i know what will happen, we got us a winter run this weekend and i will probably burn out both the 12 on 24 winches and have to eat humble pie...

this is right up there with, "boy this unit is running great" and the engine blows...
cheers

 

[Jukelemon]

The issue with running 24v's into a 12v motor really has more to do with the longevity of the internal parts i.e. solenoids and motor. Much like Stone stated, it will work on isolated pulls and work very well but everyday utility (which I know that is not what you guys are using it for) needs would fry the motor.

 

[crushers]

actually what i heard was repeat short pulls won't hurt it but it is the long pulls that will kill it... once again this is all hearsay.
i decided to try the long pull last year, i winched for about 2 min and the bugger didn't even heat up and i know on 12V the 12V motor does get quite warm...
like i said this is all just in fun for me...
12V motors are a lot easier to come by so if one burns out then just replace it then with a 24V or if it lasted long enough then go with another 12V...
no biggie either way. what are you going to get for a used 12V motor? squat. so what do you have to loose?
as for the solenoids, for years Warn has been using the 12V on the 24V winches. when i bought my first brand new Warn 8274 24V it came with the 12V solenoids pack...
cheers

 

[The Dude]

Well, I have both...

PTO does not reduce aproach angle ( I had mine fitted to an ARB and now a custom bumper with even better aproach)
PTO does not over heat
PTO does not have solenoids
PTO free wheels out
PTO will pull all day
PTO is a bitch to service in the field

8274 gets hot
8274 is commonly used so you'll have lots of parts to scavange when those in your group break
8274 depends on your electrical system/batteries
8274 is not much lighter then the PTO
8274 is a lot more user friendly

My HJ61 is keeping the PTO (broken at this time) and my lighter bush buggy is getting the 8274...

 

[crushers]

LOL!! this would not have anything to do with being SOA would it?


Brad says:
PTO does not reduce aproach angle ( I had mine fitted to an ARB and now a custom bumper with even better aproach)

 

[The Dude]

LOL!! this would not have anything to do with being SOA would it?


Brad says:
PTO does not reduce aproach angle ( I had mine fitted to an ARB and now a custom bumper with even better aproach)

It might help.....

 

[Gold Finger]

You can winch all day with a PTO winch your limited to minuts with electric! A friend winched me off a very steep mountain pass that was covered in sheet ice and a huge drop, an electric winch would not have pulled me the distance required to reach safty.

 

[crushers]

and if the shear pin had let go...

 

[DieselROCKS]

Alright Alright, this shear pin business......How much does it take to slice it off??

On my old man's willy's (oh here we go again...:flipoff2) PTO I've pulled a big Deere 4520 stuck up to the axles with it...is the Toy PTO just as strong or what?

 

[Island Moose]

Has anyone considered fabricating or purchasing a hydraulic winch? It would seem to me that you'd need a much smaller motor.

 

[Gold Finger]

and if the shear pin had let go...

Sranded or a long tunble to my dooooooom but it didnt. Hydraulic is by far the best bit of kit for serious winching, electic are just toys by comparison they are only ment for short pulls realy because one the moter gets very hot and can burn out and two the batteries no matter howmany you put on board and how much you rev the engine the drain will run them down.

 

[crushers]

i agree, elec is best for short pulls but we have used one to get 2 trucks almost to the top of a 750 ft icy hill a few years back:
November 2002 - Exploration Run (www.crushersrule.com)
the warn 9000i died in the first 100 ft
the first warn 8274 pulled both the BJ60 and the FJ40 up about 250 ft before it quit and the other warn 8274 pulled the remaining FJ40 to the top (it was buggered from the beginning so we had to make one out of the 2). the point is when you have a common winch like the 8274 you can make it to the top.
hydralic has the same problem as the PTO (unless i am mistaken and i have been before) the engine must be running to work. yes?
cheers