New project - 12H-T turbo diesel transplant into my 1991 FJ80.

Stone · 02-01-09, 12:24 AM

Didn't really know whether to put this in the Diesel section or the 80 forum...I'll give it a go here. It's going to be a long-term thread documenting this build. I thought it might be interesting since the 12H-T was never offered originally in the 80 series...so there's probably going to be a few interesting kinks to work out along the way.

The 12H-T was the engine I really wanted...I felt that it had the right combination of simplicity, power, efficiency, and robustness that to me embody the idea of a Land Cruiser. When this donor vehicle presented itself, I couldn't say no.

I will post pics of my FJ80 later...it's in stock form with tiny little 29" tires that already seem to be too much for the lowly 3FE to turn, even when guzzling back all that gasoline in the effort.

Needless to say, I can't wait for the day I tear that gas pot out of my truck. Special thanks to Driley for taking time out and checking this truck out for me in his hometown and giving me an excellent report about it. Also thanks to all those who generously offered.

Here's a pic of the 1991 FJ80 that will be the transplant recipient:

The 12H-T came to me by way of a rusty Canadian HJ60 that someone had dropped this poor engine into.

The original transplant into this rust bucket ran, but the quality of the transplant was somewhat lacking...there were wires routed in the most ridiculous manner, and it looked like some construction material served as custom bracketry in the engine bay.

Starting to take the rusty stuff off...

Most of the front bib gone...it was very entertaining finding all sorts of different sized bolts and nuts jumbled together in this truck. For example, the right engine mount had the usual 17mm nut, but the left engine mount was secured with a "custom" 19mm nut.

My good friend, Sheldon, putting the engine hoist into position...

The most beautiful word to ever grace the top of a Toyota diesel engine..."TURBO".

This photo is me leaving Sheldon in a precarious position just to take an "action" photo...

A sweet 12H-T liberated from its rusty tomb...

A Canadian HJ60 body now available for sale...complete but with typical Toyota rust. Hey...it's Left Hand Drive...who wants those mint Japanese right hand drive imported crap when you can drop a turbo diesel into this sweet chassis? LOL!

The beast ready for prep work in preparation for the transplant into the FJ80. That's Sheldon's 24V 1HD-FT in the background...but I'm sure nobody's interested in that thing.

Drool!

More to come as the build progesses!

IronYuppy · 02-01-09, 12:52 AM

Looking forward to seeing your updates.

Considering the (relative) affordability and availability of Toyota diesels here, we're pretty lucky. I am trying to decide what is going to go into my own 80..... if your swap goes well that will narrow it down considerably. WAY cheaper than a 1HD-T!

lumpy70 · 02-01-09, 12:00 PM

That is super cool Stone. Before I bought my HDJ81 I was seriously considering the same project, with Sheldon's (G & S Cruiser Parts for those who don't know) parts help and advice of course.

The engines never really materialized for me though.

Good luck!

Craig.

warpdriv · 02-01-09, 01:47 PM

Any diesel conversion in any 80 is interesting. Post on dude!!!

wussyPup · 02-01-09, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone

The 12H-T was the engine I really wanted...

Stone, glad to read that you're back with a Cruiser. What are your plans regarding trans and transfer case?

-Steve

d0ubledown · 02-01-09, 03:38 PM

way cool project stone. nice to see another diesel converted 80 being done up here...i wish i could be a member of that club! cant wait to see more progress pics...

Stone · 02-01-09, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wussyPup

Stone, glad to read that you're back with a Cruiser. What are your plans regarding trans and transfer case?

-Steve

Thanks, Steve.

Sheldon and I were discussing this, and I really would like to keep the full-time AWD/4WD system that's in my FJ80 right now if I can. The 12H-T is currently bolted up to an A440 and a part-time case. We'll have a better idea when we pull out the 3FE/tranny combo from the 80 and compare the two drivetrains side-by-side. Hoping that there isn't too many complications inside in terms of compatibility...thinking about the torque converter, and hoping a 12H-T compatible torque converter will just fit into my 3FE A440.

If it really gets complicated or expensive to keep my full-time case, I guess we'll retrofit the part time one and deal with the vacuum shift issue.

I was so excited last night I couldn't fall asleep until 0130 in the morning. Was a bit hard to get up early to go to work today...everyone seemed to have survived though...

Stone · 02-01-09, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ubledown

way cool project stone. nice to see another diesel converted 80 being done up here...i wish i could be a member of that club! cant wait to see more progress pics...

Thanks, Sonny...G&S have a couple of 1HD-T's available, I think...would fit nicely into your 80.

mot · 02-01-09, 03:55 PM

Hey Stone,

Good to see that you're back in the cruiser saddle again!

Good luck with the conversion!!

Mot

Gordopescado · 02-01-09, 05:04 PM

Subscribed.

Wishin' on a dream....

lndcruz · 02-01-09, 09:08 PM

cant wait to see it finished

AKcruiserfreak · 02-01-09, 09:09 PM

Drool! Someday...

TK

bj70_guy · 02-02-09, 01:59 AM

Right on Stone, I'm SO happy to see you back in a Cruiser again!!
A 12H-T powered 80 is going to be awesome, great choice.

Tapage · 02-02-09, 08:28 AM

Great project Stone .. glad so see you here and back !

are ypu planning a complete rebuild to the 12H-T ?

Planning to add a intercooler and few more PSI .. ?

gifu · 02-02-09, 12:06 PM

fun project. I'm interested to see if you can bolt the HF2AV transfer case to the A440 (seeing as the A440F was in the early 80 series... bolted to an HF2A).

btw, your BJ74 says hi.

Stone · 02-02-09, 07:53 PM

Thanks guys...Gifu...I really miss that BJ74.

If you have time, I wouldn't mind some pics for old time's sakes in my email...

70sguy · 02-03-09, 12:39 AM

We won't be trying to bolt the HF2A to the 12H-T/A440. We are aiming to bolt the 12H-T to the
stock A440F/HF2A from the FJ80... if that makes sense.

lowenbrau · 02-03-09, 11:52 PM

I'm a huge fan of this engine. I expect amazing results from this build.

Nice to have you back, Stone. Also, thanks for passing on that (my) HDJ81!

Stone · 02-07-09, 04:45 PM

Not much of an update for this week...

Just degreased and sprayed down the engine some more. Also removed the Alternator and Starter so that they can be converted over to 12V. The AC compressor clutch will need to be converted to 12V also.

AGreekBoy · 02-08-09, 07:48 PM

i will be watching this build cant wait to see how it turns out.

TeeDiggs · 02-08-09, 10:58 PM

Best of luck! I'm still in the searching phase for a LC, but a future project to go diesel someday down the road would be a dream... thanks for sharing this!

Stone · 02-14-09, 10:34 PM

Converted my starter from 24V to 12V today. 100% of the internal parts from a 12V 3B starter is identical to the internals of a 24V starter (except for voltage, of course). I just had to take them apart so that I can use my 12H-T nose cone on the 12V 3B parts, and essentially I have a brand new starter! I will have to move the drain at the back of the housing because it ends up in the wrong spot (on top instead of the bottom) when this swap is done.

Part number for the 12V 3B starter (reman.) is 28100-56111-84...list is $286.06 CAD, but I'm sure there's way better deals than that.

If you're fiddling with adding an AC pump to your 12H-T because yours didn't come with one...as G&S have discovered, be aware that there are a few 12H-T alternator choices and not all of them are compatible with the AC bracketry. The one that came with my engine had a larger body and wouldn't follow the radius of the bracket...kept getting stuck near the bottom of the pump.

gifu · 02-16-09, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70sguy

We won't be trying to bolt the HF2A to the 12H-T/A440. We are aiming to bolt the 12H-T to the
stock A440F/HF2A from the FJ80... if that makes sense.

isn't there something about the gasser transmissions have the wrong shift points for a diesel? Or is the stock transmission getting a custom build?

rove_mcanus · 02-21-09, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gifu

isn't there something about the gasser transmissions have the wrong shift points for a diesel? Or is the stock transmission getting a custom build?

the 3fe bellhousing pattern may be different to the 12ht. Not too sure on the auto input shaft either. on the aussie 5 speeds the shaft is different between 2/3f and 2/12h motors

Your best bet imo would be to try and fit the full time case to the 60 series auto. should be an interesting outcome.

you may have to regear the diffs too. on a stock 60, with 4.3's 60mph is around 2000rpm from memory. I'd be aiming for slightly higher in the slightly heavier 80.

70sguy · 02-22-09, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gifu

isn't there something about the gasser transmissions have the wrong shift points for a diesel? Or is the stock transmission getting a custom build?

Yes, different....shift points are based on the engines Torque/HP to RPM relationship as far as I understand it.
3FE = 220ftlbs @ 2200 RPM
12H-T = 231ftlbs @ 2000 RPM
Not too far off. Given how the A440F seems to dump into OD early, the higher torque at lower RPM
should work out.

The first order of business is to find the combination of parts that will bolt together.
If we are successful bolting the 12H-T to the FJ80 440F then Stone puts some miles on it
and get a feel for how and where it shifts, then we enlist the help of Rodney at Wholesale Automatics
for Torque converter/ Extreme valve body work to tweak the trannny characteristics.

70sguy · 02-22-09, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rove_mcanus

the 3fe bellhousing pattern may be different to the 12ht. Not too sure on the auto input shaft either. on the aussie 5 speeds the shaft is different between 2/3f and 2/12h motors

Your best bet imo would be to try and fit the full time case to the 60 series auto. should be an interesting outcome.

you may have to regear the diffs too. on a stock 60, with 4.3's 60mph is around 2000rpm from memory. I'd be aiming for slightly higher in the slightly heavier 80.

Hope I am not speaking out of turn here Stone.....

Bellhousing is different pattern on the engine side for sure, which I is why we are using the 12H-T ATM BH. We are expecting the Tranny side of BH to be the same as the 3FE BH, same part numbers and QTY on the bolts.
The ATM input shaft Sub assy is same part number between FJ80 A440F and HJ61 A440F
So we are cautiously optimistic about that end of making this work. We still need to explore
Torque converter length and bolt pattern compatibility at the ring gear. Not ruling out having to get a custom Torque converter built. We'll figure it all out once we get the 3FE/A440F/HF2A out next to the 12H-T/A440F on the garage floor.

Pretty sure the stock 4.10s are going to be just fine as the 12H-T has plenty of grunt and spins 33" tires nicely through the stock 4.11 diffs in the 60. At any rate, minor detail.

Stone · 02-22-09, 12:10 PM

Not at all, Shel...you're the brains behind this operation.

I think cautiously optimistic nicely sums up our hopes of having the 12H-T and BH bolt up to my FJ80 440 tranny...and the 12H-T torque converter being able to just swap over.

I'd love to have the Extreme components from Rodney, but $ is a factor, and it would be good to know what works together before making too many changes anyway.

I think an extra $1-2k in parts and mods for this swap may have been a little on the coservative side, eh?

Minor update:

The three alternators, 24V H series large body, 24V H series small body, and 12V B series, are going back to the alternator shop. The small body H series alternator is the one that works with the bracketry for the AC compressor...unfortunately, it is also an externally regulated model. I'll have to see if he can convert it not only to 12V, but also into an internally regulated model. I'm hoping...

I've taken off the turbo and exhaust manifold and they will be getting ceramic coated in the next little while.

gbentink · 03-05-09, 11:35 PM

This is an awesome build. You guys beat me to it. I just bought a 40th anniversay FZ80 GXL Auto with EXACTLY the same idea. I have a HJ61 VX and also a spare 12H-T engine.

I am doing a twin turbo build at the moment and will use Rodney (whom I have met and used to do a stg2 kit for my earlier 80 1HD-T; great guy) alo. By the way, I asked to have 3rd always lock up as well as 4th - it ranked as one of the best mods ever because even with over 500nm torque, 3rd was needed on some of the mountain roads and on the beach it was indespensible.

Anyway, great stuff, I can hardly believe it because you guys are answering all my questions within months of when I will be doing it myself!!!

gbentink · 03-05-09, 11:48 PM

It it legal in Canada to put in the older engine?? I am guessing not. I could get it all approved if tuned correctly here in Perth however the cost is an AUD 2000 test!! I might leave it.......

gbentink · 03-06-09, 12:12 AM

Stone; I spoke with Rodney about this matter a month or so ago. He said that the torque converter as fitted st in the HJ61 (ie: 12H-T) was the worst that has ever graced an auto transmission. Having said that, the std fitment item to the HDJ81 was one of the best!! He said way bigger than the former.

He has a completely custom billet converter he sells for around AUD 1100 from memory.

I would like to know if the HDJ81 converter will fit in the 12H-T A440F bellhousing...???

I had him lower the stall speed on my HDJ81 converter to make better use of the low down torque. It was a mistake though - twin turbo (compound) should be OK though :-)