The hydraulic needs the engine going or a power packs to be on to have power. An electric winch will also need the engine pretty soon or the batteries will just run down. The main advantage the electric would have is a stalled engine in a river drowning say. A hydraulic will on other occasions just run all day non stop as long as the engine has fuel. Multiple recoveries are no problem at all. Thousands of feet. You of course would have to rewind as spool lengths are limited of course but that is the same for all winches.
TLC PTO vs. 24V Warn 8274
- Thread starter smcruisin
- Start date
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crushers
post ho
and when you are spooling out the cable the elec will have cooled a bit and it would be time for a coffee and re-asses the situtaion...
me, as you can tell, am a die hard 8274 boy. most of the hydralic winches i have seen have been on trucks that only see the bush once year...
me, as you can tell, am a die hard 8274 boy. most of the hydralic winches i have seen have been on trucks that only see the bush once year...
crushers
post ho
a PTO mounted low and an 8274 mounted above would probably be the best in all circumstances...
geesh, I forgot to answer some of your basic questions on the PTO. I shift my auto into neutral, t-case into nuetral, engage the PTO. I then select a gear (or reverse) to operate the winch. I have no forward or reverse on the PTO lever. You can also engage your t-case to get the tires to "help out" the winch. But you have to get used to this as it is difficult (or can be) as engine speed and winch/tire speed are all conected.
I replaced my shear pin with a 1/4" roll pin. It took about 2 mininutes with a punch and a drill. I then went and buggered something up in the actual PTO, not the winch itself.
I replaced my shear pin with a 1/4" roll pin. It took about 2 mininutes with a punch and a drill. I then went and buggered something up in the actual PTO, not the winch itself.
Hey
I’ve been running a Milemarker hydraulic winch for a few years now; and, it beats an electric winch hands-down. In my experience, the hydraulic winch has been completely maintenance-free, its water proof, and it will pull hard all day. I am actually considering swapping the PTO for a hydraulic winch on my new rig.
Mike
I’ve been running a Milemarker hydraulic winch for a few years now; and, it beats an electric winch hands-down. In my experience, the hydraulic winch has been completely maintenance-free, its water proof, and it will pull hard all day. I am actually considering swapping the PTO for a hydraulic winch on my new rig.
Mike
- Thread starter
- #26
This thread is great -- just what I wanted to know.
In regards to the 're-wound' electric motors, I think any good alternator/starter motor rebuild shop can handle this. The two best things about running a 24V winch on a 24V system is HALF the amperage draw for any given load (this equates to less heat generated), and higher line speed (loaded or unloaded). Has anyone been able to buy 24V Warn motors lately? Price in BC? My cousin Rob indicated that the 24V motors were few and far between, and would cost more than a rewound/rebuilt 12V motor. I'm willing to hear otherwise if things have changed. As for the soloniods, I forget if you re-arrange the 12V ones (ie. series to parallel or vice-versa), or if you have to replace them with 24V versions?
In regards to the shear pin in the PTO: when swapping a higher shear rated pin, at what point does another part of the winch become the "weak point". Do you think you could get the PTO to the 10,000 or 15,000 lb rating (ie. significantly more than the 8274)?
If I were to install either the PTO or 8274 into my BJ-42, the winch wouldn't stick out further than the frame like the 'porch-style' bumpers because I'm going to build a bumper from scratch. It may require shortening the PTO drive-shaft, but that's easy enough.
Cheers,
Steve
In regards to the 're-wound' electric motors, I think any good alternator/starter motor rebuild shop can handle this. The two best things about running a 24V winch on a 24V system is HALF the amperage draw for any given load (this equates to less heat generated), and higher line speed (loaded or unloaded). Has anyone been able to buy 24V Warn motors lately? Price in BC? My cousin Rob indicated that the 24V motors were few and far between, and would cost more than a rewound/rebuilt 12V motor. I'm willing to hear otherwise if things have changed. As for the soloniods, I forget if you re-arrange the 12V ones (ie. series to parallel or vice-versa), or if you have to replace them with 24V versions?
In regards to the shear pin in the PTO: when swapping a higher shear rated pin, at what point does another part of the winch become the "weak point". Do you think you could get the PTO to the 10,000 or 15,000 lb rating (ie. significantly more than the 8274)?
If I were to install either the PTO or 8274 into my BJ-42, the winch wouldn't stick out further than the frame like the 'porch-style' bumpers because I'm going to build a bumper from scratch. It may require shortening the PTO drive-shaft, but that's easy enough.
Cheers,
Steve
crushers
post ho
actually the 24V motor is considerabley slower than a 12V on 24...
- Thread starter
- #28
forgot to ask:
how do you find powering out with a PTO vs. electric, and how easy/stiff is the PTO vs. electric in terms of 'free-wheeling' out cable.
Also, what two components does the shear pin connect? Wayne, what do you mean by no overload warning with the PTO -- does it go, "pull, pull, pull, BANG!" rather than slowing and groaning like the electric? Could the shear pin damage some other components when it lets go, or do you just fish out the failed stubs, and pop in a new pin (ie. how involved to replace a pin in the field).
Keep this stuff coming!
how do you find powering out with a PTO vs. electric, and how easy/stiff is the PTO vs. electric in terms of 'free-wheeling' out cable.
Also, what two components does the shear pin connect? Wayne, what do you mean by no overload warning with the PTO -- does it go, "pull, pull, pull, BANG!" rather than slowing and groaning like the electric? Could the shear pin damage some other components when it lets go, or do you just fish out the failed stubs, and pop in a new pin (ie. how involved to replace a pin in the field).
Keep this stuff coming!
lowenbrau
SILVER Star
I was going to stay out of this untill somebody mentioned hydraulic which I will get to in a minute.
The jury is out on 8274 vs PTO. I like both. 8274 is much easier to use by yourself. PTO is better with a swamper. As far as using a PTO with a dead truck, I'll bet you can pull a truck nearly as far with the sparkplugs pulled and the starter turning the PTO as you can with an 8274. Not ideal but a dead engine isn't a show stopper.
As far as a 12v 8274 on 24V it will actually be the speed that kills it. At full load the line drop on the #4 cable that feeds it will be sufficient to get the volts down to a managable level at the winch motor. Time has proven this combo to work but be carefull when respooling. Make sure you drag a rock or a log or something to keep the no load speed down or the commutator will fly apart. (This from the motor builder that rewound my 12V xd9000 to 24V)
Finally Hydraulics. There are two classes of hydraulic winches. The ones that have electric solinoids and use your ps pump are very slow and not practical for most people. The pumps make about 3 gal/min and 1500 PSI max. Commercial PTO winches require more like 10gal/min at 2500PSI. I have this type on my BJ70 and the pump runs off the PTO. It pulls faster than most electrics and the speed changes little with load. You can use a pressure guage to deturmine load which would be a good tool. Not cheap though, my setup blew the $4000 budget
HTH
The jury is out on 8274 vs PTO. I like both. 8274 is much easier to use by yourself. PTO is better with a swamper. As far as using a PTO with a dead truck, I'll bet you can pull a truck nearly as far with the sparkplugs pulled and the starter turning the PTO as you can with an 8274. Not ideal but a dead engine isn't a show stopper.
As far as a 12v 8274 on 24V it will actually be the speed that kills it. At full load the line drop on the #4 cable that feeds it will be sufficient to get the volts down to a managable level at the winch motor. Time has proven this combo to work but be carefull when respooling. Make sure you drag a rock or a log or something to keep the no load speed down or the commutator will fly apart. (This from the motor builder that rewound my 12V xd9000 to 24V)
Finally Hydraulics. There are two classes of hydraulic winches. The ones that have electric solinoids and use your ps pump are very slow and not practical for most people. The pumps make about 3 gal/min and 1500 PSI max. Commercial PTO winches require more like 10gal/min at 2500PSI. I have this type on my BJ70 and the pump runs off the PTO. It pulls faster than most electrics and the speed changes little with load. You can use a pressure guage to deturmine load which would be a good tool. Not cheap though, my setup blew the $4000 budget
HTH
- Thread starter
- #30
Wayne, I havn't ever seen a 12V motor running on 24V -- I'm sure it's fast, but I'd like my winch to last for a while.
I was comparing a 24V motor running on 24V to a 12V motor running on 12V (sorry for any confusion)
I was comparing a 24V motor running on 24V to a 12V motor running on 12V (sorry for any confusion)
cruiser_guy
Out of Africa / North Africa
smcruisin said:
The PTO powers out if the truck is in reverse. Normally you would simply disengage the clutch at the winch head and pull out the cable. You've got to be careful that the drum doesn't keep spinning when you get out the required length of cable! A swamper working the clutch/"brake" would be a help.
smcruisin said:
There would be NO warning (like loading the engine) that the shear pin is about to go. Pull, pull, pull, bang would probably describe it well, although I would think that you would know that it is a tough pull by the way things are going as well. I could let my truck idle and the winch would pull, albeit slowly. Remember that the PTO winch is powered by the engine on the truck, considerably more hp than ANY Warn winch out there.
The shear pin is at the winch head where the drive shaft connects.
As for the PTO winch not sticking out like on a porch bumper, remember that the PTO is powered by a driveshaft exiting the frame at the hole in the frame crossmember under the rad. The PTO MUST be in front of that crossmember and at the correct height to meet the driveshaft. It doesn't give you a lot of room to play with. You MIGHT be able to knock a couple of inches off in front of the winch with a creative fairlead.
lowenbrau
SILVER Star
The shear pin is a real pain to get out. I've been casually looking for a PTO torque limiter for Toyotas but haven't found exactly what we need yet. There is a company in Poland that seems to have one in the right torque range with the right spline count but their site (can't find it right now) is in Polski and Bablefish doesn't do Polish so I'm guessing and I'd rather not order a part from halfway around the world till I had an idea it was the right thing.
I can just see the UPS man showing up with a part for a perogy maker or something.
I can just see the UPS man showing up with a part for a perogy maker or something.
crushers
post ho
no overload warning, no bang, no groan.. kind like that old saying "the earth will not go out with a bang but with a wimper" same as a PTO winch, one minute you are winching the next all is quiet and you are not going anywhere. AND if you are in 4 inches of ice you are going to get VERY cold changing out the shear pin... if you can get at it...smcruisin said:
crushers
post ho
yes the 24V is faster than the 12V and the 12V on 24 is really fast...
i hope i never prove Bruce's theory right...
cheers
i hope i never prove Bruce's theory right...
cheers
lowenbrau
SILVER Star
Oh that is sooooo right.
Why didn't I think of that? That's it, I'm building one ,who do I harass about all the details?
Why didn't I think of that? That's it, I'm building one ,who do I harass about all the details?
crushers
post ho
what the?!?! okay, what is up with that setup...pocholin said:
that is cool for on a 40 series, would suck on a 70 or a 60...
crushers
post ho
what the?!?! okay, what is up with that setup...pocholin said:
that is cool for on a 40 series, would suck on a 70 or a 60... the approcah angle would still be comprimised too much but i LOVE the idea...
darkman said:
Just a little info
http://www.milemarker.com/winch-12.html
http://4x4review.com/products/accessories/mmwinch.asp
