Would you prefer a PHEV? (1 Viewer)

[kalieaire]

Additionally, check out this configuration.



The Hummer EV weighs close to 10k optioned out and with passengers. Using about 636watts per mile. If you're traveling at 85mph in Utah, you're burning 54kw per hour out of your 216kw battery.

Full expedition weight of a 200-series is only ~7,500 - 8,000 lbs. I'd assume if the LC250 were built as a traditional EV, it'd be something like 400-450 watts per mile (maybe less), consuming 34KW per hour under the same conditions in Utah.

(For comparison's sake, the Tesla Model X is in the ballpark of 310-320 watts per mile)

A two-cylinder turbocharged generator could offer 85KWs of constant output and be completely immune to the effects of high altitude on gas engines.

If we're going to compare powerplants, today's turbocharged options, while highly integrated (thus difficult to repair), would actually be more suitable at high elevation esp on trails in South America.

 

[mkennedy009]

The Obrist would be a good option if the UN and US were not forcing the use of battery and demonizing petrol for profit to companies that own the dirt where lithium is mined.

 

[Jetboy]

The series hybrid has never shown very good fuel efficiency. There's a lot of reasons, but the basic issue is that it has a lot more system losses than direct drive at steady state highway cruising. The Toyota hybrid transmission in most of its transverse hybrids is a parallel-series hybrid. It can do either one. And it does both at different times. But it could absolutely be programmed to run purely as a generator and electric drive. It just doesn't because it's not the most efficient option. The series only design only really works in a PHEV for a range extender where the packaging favors the series and it's only used for a relatively small percentage of the vehicle's miles.

I'm indifferent to how it works as long as it works well. I think the current design is fine for this type of vehicle. My only hangup is battery size not being enough to take the most advantage of the design. A bigger battery up to about 10kwh would greatly improve the overall package. And I'd happily pay the extra $1k or so for the battery capacity. I suspect Toyota simply can't source enough batteries right now to do it. I'd bet that's also why they are using nimh. It's what they have access to right now.

 

[kalieaire]

I suspect Toyota simply can't source enough batteries right now to do it. I'd bet that's also why they are using nimh. It's what they have access to right now.

This was my original assumption, however, the Toyota Camry Hybrid, Harrier/Venza Hybrid, Corolla Hybrid, Corolla Cross Hybrid, RAV4 Hybrid, Prius Hybrid, they're all using Li-ion now and have transitioned away from Nickel Metal Hydride. Even Lexus models have made the jump to Li-ion.

Those comprise the bulk of Toyota's volume sellers and cars that have the lowest margin. I think we're at parity if they cannibalized 5-6 hybrids for 1 hybrid LC250 with 10kw of battery. With that said, Li-Ion is not the battery chemistry to go with. LiFePO4 or similar chemistry that can handle more than 3000 cycles would be ideal.

 

[tacoshawn]

Toyota’s electrification approach is nicely summarized as 1 BEV takes as much critical minerals as 6 PHEVs and 90 hybrids. They further assert the carbon reduction of 90 hybrids is 37 times greater than 1 BEV. It is reported as the Toyota 1:6:90 rule.

In the near term I think that means we can expect Toyota to continue to emphasize applications that use ~2KWh battery packs, like the RX350h (parallel efficiency hybrid) that we have and are coming with the 250 series performance oriented series hybrid.

Our RX is fantastic btw, it would be more fantastic with a bigger battery and even more utilization of the electric drive system. After reading the 1:6:90 I get why they have made the product design and mix of BEV/PHEV/hybrid choices for today.

We had reservations for both the 2023 R4P and the 2023 RX. The RX arrived in first so we bought it and cancelled the R4P. Unfortunately that RX was a very early RX500h VIN and went back to Lexus under lemon law. We then picked up the RX 350h and it has been a fantastic vehicle.

I really liked the extra zoom of the 500h Direct 4 system over the 350h. While the LC250 2.4 Turbo + hybrid is not the Direct 4 architecture it is a performance hybrid and should be a fantastic drive.

I have a deposit in on both LC and GX550 so am covered for either TT V6 or 2.4T/Hybrid.

 

[NearJetties]

Toyota’s electrification approach is nicely summarized as 1 BEV takes as much critical minerals as 6 PHEVs and 90 hybrids. They further assert the carbon reduction of 90 hybrids is 37 times greater than 1 BEV. It is reported as the Toyota 1:6:90 rule.

In the near term I think that means we can expect Toyota to continue to emphasize applications that use ~2KWh battery packs, like the RX350h (parallel efficiency hybrid) that we have and are coming with the 250 series performance oriented series hybrid.

Our RX is fantastic btw, it would be more fantastic with a bigger battery and even more utilization of the electric drive system. After reading the 1:6:90 I get why they have made the product design and mix of BEV/PHEV/hybrid choices for today.

We had reservations for both the 2023 R4P and the 2023 RX. The RX arrived in first so we bought it and cancelled the R4P. Unfortunately that RX was a very early RX500h VIN and went back to Lexus under lemon law. We then picked up the RX 350h and it has been a fantastic vehicle.

I really liked the extra zoom of the 500h Direct 4 system over the 350h. While the LC250 2.4 Turbo + hybrid is not the Direct 4 architecture it is a performance hybrid and should be a fantastic drive.

I have a deposit in on both LC and GX550 so am covered for either TT V6 or 2.4T/Hybrid.

Do you have a good article link that covers these stats? I’d love to show my wife lol

 

[APIOQM]

Toyota’s electrification approach is nicely summarized as 1 BEV takes as much critical minerals as 6 PHEVs and 90 hybrids. They further assert the carbon reduction of 90 hybrids is 37 times greater than 1 BEV. It is reported as the Toyota 1:6:90 rule.

I’d like to know how they came up with their carbon reduction figure. It’s a lot more efficient to charge off the grid than an onboard ICE.

 

[tacoshawn]

This Is Why Toyota Isn't Rushing To Sell You An Electric Vehicle - Jalopnik

Toyota’s hybrid models have been extremely successful, so you would think the automaker would be quick to embrace full electrification like some of its competitors. However, the automaker seems to be taking a somewhat controversial approach to EVs, and a leaked dealer document about the brand’s...

jalopnik.com

I’m pretty new to this site so if posting the link is verboten, please remove!

I won’t attempt to substantiate Toyota’s assessment one way or the other, they get to make their own analysis.

I will say our RX350h consistently gets 36mpg (seriously, everywhere and all the time) in real world use as our primary vehicle. Our 2015 Honda Odyssey that it replaced got a consistent 17mpg in the exact same use and role. So given we run 18,000 miles annually on our primary vehicle our savings is >500 gallons annual.

 

[NearJetties]

I’d like to know how they came up with their carbon reduction figure. It’s a lot more efficient to charge off the grid than an onboard ICE.

Pretty sure they factor in the mining/supply chain of lithium and other rare earth metals into thay

 

[APIOQM]

Pretty sure they factor in the mining/supply chain of lithium and other rare earth metals into thay

But their 1:6:90 rule assumes the same amount of lithium, etc., is mined in each scenario.

 

[tacoshawn]

But their 1:6:90 rule assumes the same amount of lithium, etc., is mined in each scenario.

I believe they are not measuring BEV vs PHEV vs Hybrid. I believe they are saying each of those versus a gasoline car.

Assume they build 1 BEV or 6 PHEV or 90 hybrids. 1 BEV replaces 1 gas car. 90 hybrids replacing 90 gas cars is a much more significant affect.

In my households real world example, 1 hybrid reduced our household gasoline use by 500+ gallons. @ 1 gallon of gas = 20lb of CO2 = 10,000lb CO2 reduction versus the same 18,000 miles on the Honda. Now do the same 89 more times with the amount of material that would be required for 1BEV.

 

[tacoshawn]

As data point on performance hybrids (like the LC, Tundra, Sequoia, Crown, RX500h and Grand Highlander). Our RX500h was 366hp and 400 ftlb. It was a really nice performer with really fantastic drivability. It was not brutally fast like my brothers CTS-V. It was nice fast like my Jaguar XF with the 5L V8. So a very real performer in real world use.

And, the RX500h got 26-28 miles per gallon in the same use as the Honda/RX350h. Savings of almost 400 gallons per year.

I think these performance hybrids will really be nice to drive. The 465lbft of torque beats the torque from my custom 91 Octane tuned 8.1L in my K2500 Suburban.

Not that anyone is buying these to save the earth, drive what you have that was already built or better yet, take the bus for that. I’m sharing that the performance benefit is real, operating costs are lower, range is higher and I’ll take it.

+1 comment. For the record I would prefer a PHEV 250 series. This is because in Toyota land PHEVs are performance hybrids and have the benefit of competing one energy monopoly (oil) against a different energy monopoly (electric). And, I have solar so less money to both monopolies from me is a double winner. But, that is not what is becoming available soon.

My active trade is what can I get first (I’m driving the Honda Odyssey for now) and do I want the Hybrid more than I want the additional towing capacity of the 3.4LTT. While I no longer own a travel trailer the plan is to get another one in the semi-near future and the V6 has appeal for a wider range of ~21 foot to ~23 foot travel trailer choices.

First world problems.

 

[MotoDave]

Found an interesting sentence in this article on Jalopnik, the first I'd seen that there would be a hybrid version of the GX550

We're Driving The 2024 Lexus GX Both On And Off-Road, What Do You Want To Know? - Jalopnik

Now that we’re a few weeks into the new year and people have returned and recovered from their vacations, automakers are starting their onslaught of events and trips for new product reveals and drives. I’m headed off on my first trip of the year today, and it’s for one of 2024's most anticipated...

jalopnik.com

While the U.S.-spec Land Cruiser is a hybrid with a turbocharged four-cylinder engine, the Lexus GX gets a twin-turbo V6 making 349 horsepower without any electric assistance. (A hybrid GX will come down the line.)

 

[M1911]

Found an interesting sentence in this article on Jalopnik, the first I'd seen that there would be a hybrid version of the GX550

We're Driving The 2024 Lexus GX Both On And Off-Road, What Do You Want To Know? - Jalopnik

Now that we’re a few weeks into the new year and people have returned and recovered from their vacations, automakers are starting their onslaught of events and trips for new product reveals and drives. I’m headed off on my first trip of the year today, and it’s for one of 2024's most anticipated...

jalopnik.com

That’s not news. It is going to be the same 4-cylinder hybrid that is in the Land Cruiser 250. It appears that the twin-turbo V6 hybrid will be limited to the Tundra and LX 600.

 

[NearJetties]

Found an interesting sentence in this article on Jalopnik, the first I'd seen that there would be a hybrid version of the GX550

We're Driving The 2024 Lexus GX Both On And Off-Road, What Do You Want To Know? - Jalopnik

Now that we’re a few weeks into the new year and people have returned and recovered from their vacations, automakers are starting their onslaught of events and trips for new product reveals and drives. I’m headed off on my first trip of the year today, and it’s for one of 2024's most anticipated...

jalopnik.com

They’ve been saying that about the GX for a while. No one seems to know if it will be the 4 cyl turbo hybrid from the LC or the 6 cyl turbo hybrid from the Sequoia/Tundra. I’m hoping it’s the later.

 

[carboncycles]

If the 550 gets the same hybrid setup from the 600/TRD PRO, that is going to be seriously stout. I'd almost argue the frame and lots of the underbody would have to be reworked to handle that much torque/stress...would be easier and cheaper throw in the 250 hybrid setup.

 

[Jeremy556]

The GX is not going to get the 6cyl hybrid, it's getting the 4cyl hybrid. There have already been published specs and details in numerous threads here.

 

[Phillyd2]

The GX is not going to get the 6cyl hybrid, it's getting the 4cyl hybrid. There have already been published specs and details in numerous threads here.

Instead of the current TT6 or in addition to as an option?

 

[Jeremy556]

Instead of the current TT6 or in addition to as an option?

Option - either the 3.4 ttv6, or the 2.4t i4 hybrid

 

[APIOQM]

The V6 PHEV system in the Lexus TX 550h+ appears to be superior on paper. It touts 404 HP, 29 MPG combined, and an electric range of 33 mi (76 MPGe). I’m guessing the 18 kWh battery would simply not work with the LC250 & Tacoma, but it begs the question: Why didn’t they use the 2.4T instead of the V6?