Would AHC delete de-value (how much) my LX570? (1 Viewer)

[trudd]

“We'll see plenty of 200k mile LX570s on original suspension before long.“


But we don’t. Aside from maybe one or few here that claims such, most do not make it to 150k much less 200k without rusting, globes go bad, or just crappy ride.

And just to prove its complexity and high-risk maintenance aspect, a member here recently lamented that no Lexus nor Toyota dealer around him would even touch AHC for maintenance. Just wait till it fails and they will bill you $30k to replace the whole system.

At this point, I think we've established that globes are a suggested maintenance item somewhere in the 150-200k range. If you're lucky enough to avoid rust and only need to replace globes / swap fluid by the time you hit 200k+, I'd call that a win.

I was AHC-delete curious a few months ago due to some vibration issues I was having (turned out to be driveline related). So I snagged takeoff LC shocks and springs for $50 with less than 1k miles on them. Now that I have my shimmy issues resolved, I can see the AHC shine, especially when towing.

To the point of this thread - I do think we'll see more AHC deletes as time moves on, and there will be a growing market segment that tolerates (or even prefers) it. We're not there yet, but soon.

For me, I'll be putting the AHC delete off for as long as I can. If/when the time comes, I'll have some stock LC suspension I can audition before committing to ripping out all of the AHC components or investing in more robust conventional systems.

 

[NKP Garage]

Had a high milage 1998 LX470 w/ AHC. Upwards of 250k miles. All I did on it was flush the fluid twice and it was still on original globes as far as I could tell. Worked great. My last LX570 (2009) had around 190k miles on it when I sold it to another MUD member, I did new globes on it around 170k miles I think along with fresh fluid, all original shocks, lines, pump. Worked great. Current LX570 (2017) is under 60k miles still and working perfect, I'll flush the fluid when it gets to around 65k miles.

AHC was a must for me after experiencing it on my LX470. It is very capable, fairly trouble free with basic maintenance, and when it comes to the LX570 towing or adding weight with AHC versus without is night and day difference. Big benefits with AHC when loaded up with people, gear, or towing. I personally wouldn't buy another LC/LX without AHC.

 

[chriscosta416]

New globes on mine around 180k fresh fluid flush and everything works on mine and its great. I flush every 30-50k.

 

[krice118]

As a week old LX570 owner, I would not remove the AHC. I absolutley love it- easy access mode for wife and loading kids. High mode for offroad. Great for my appliaction of 99% pavement.

 

[Heckraiser]

I don't deny that the AHC is a great system and works well for most people. Mine is still working well, it just doesn't fit my personal driving style or preferences.

OFF ROAD:
Just as an example, I've gone on a couple tough trails since I first posted this thread and paid close attention to how I use the AHC system. I find that AHC when in "high" mode is noticeably stiffer in a way that I don't really like. When in "high," the comfort-sport adjustment doesn't seem to do much as compared to when in AHC "normal"--it just feels firmer regardless of comfort setting. For this reason, when I hit the trail, I put the truck into 4LO, which automatically puts the AHC in "high," I then manually switch it back to "normal" for the ride quality I prefer and start up the trail. Whenever I encounter an obstacle that my 35's wont get me over without scraping the bumpers or belly, I switch it into "high," clear the obstacle, then switch it back into "normal" and continue down the trail. On a tough trail, this results in switching back and fort a lot. The overall experience is finicky and annoying to me and I find myself trying to negotiate harder and harder obstacles in "AHC normal" resulting in more bumps and bruises on bumpers and undercarriage. As I mentioned, my truck is not pristine, so this part doesn't bother me too much. The novelty of flipping a switch and getting a lift has worn off and I would prefer to just live at an off-road oriented ride height (as I have with every 4x4 I've owned over the years) and never have to think about it.

ON ROAD:
AHC provides great ride quality and good handling--there is no denying that. But when I drive a Land Cruiser or any rig with conventional springs and shocks, I just feel like I can tell what's happening under the truck better. More connected to the road. Even if an AHC truck could beat a conventional lifted truck through the slalom, which I'm sure it could, I just personally prefer the feel of traditional springs and shocks.

Other Considerations:
I'm considering a body lift to eventually accomodate 37's. All sliders designed around the AHC system, including my current slees, will leave an ugly gap between the slider and the rocker. Whereas if I delete AHC, I can get LC sliders designed for a body lift. There is a good selection of factory and aftermarket swaybars for the 200, so I feel I could get the on-road handling to a place that works well for me and maybe disconnect or remove the front sway ahead of off-road use.

In the meantime, I'll probably continue to use my AHC as I described and live with it. The biggest hurdle to the AHC delete is the simple fact that it costs money, lol.

 

[Madtiger]

I don't deny that the AHC is a great system and works well for most people. Mine is still working well, it just doesn't fit my personal driving style or preferences.

OFF ROAD:
Just as an example, I've gone on a couple tough trails since I first posted this thread and paid close attention to how I use the AHC system. I find that AHC when in "high" mode is noticeably stiffer in a way that I don't really like. When in "high," the comfort-sport adjustment doesn't seem to do much as compared to when in AHC "normal"--it just feels firmer regardless of comfort setting. For this reason, when I hit the trail, I put the truck into 4LO, which automatically puts the AHC in "high," I then manually switch it back to "normal" for the ride quality I prefer and start up the trail. Whenever I encounter an obstacle that my 35's wont get me over without scraping the bumpers or belly, I switch it into "high," clear the obstacle, then switch it back into "normal" and continue down the trail. On a tough trail, this results in switching back and fort a lot. The overall experience is finicky and annoying to me and I find myself trying to negotiate harder and harder obstacles in "AHC normal" resulting in more bumps and bruises on bumpers and undercarriage. As I mentioned, my truck is not pristine, so this part doesn't bother me too much. The novelty of flipping a switch and getting a lift has worn off and I would prefer to just live at an off-road oriented ride height (as I have with every 4x4 I've owned over the years) and never have to think about it.

ON ROAD:
AHC provides great ride quality and good handling--there is no denying that. But when I drive a Land Cruiser or any rig with conventional springs and shocks, I just feel like I can tell what's happening under the truck better. More connected to the road. Even if an AHC truck could beat a conventional lifted truck through the slalom, which I'm sure it could, I just personally prefer the feel of traditional springs and shocks.

Other Considerations:
I'm considering a body lift to eventually accomodate 37's. All sliders designed around the AHC system, including my current slees, will leave an ugly gap between the slider and the rocker. Whereas if I delete AHC, I can get LC sliders designed for a body lift. There is a good selection of factory and aftermarket swaybars for the 200, so I feel I could get the on-road handling to a place that works well for me and maybe disconnect or remove the front sway ahead of off-road use.

In the meantime, I'll probably continue to use my AHC as I described and live with it. The biggest hurdle to the AHC delete is the simple fact that it costs money, lol.

That is because in HIGH mode, your articulation suffers...your LX is basically on high heels. So ride turns to crap.

On road, not sure about lifted kits, but a regular LC outhandles the LX (stock vs. stock).

 

[TeCKis300]

I don't deny that the AHC is a great system and works well for most people. Mine is still working well, it just doesn't fit my personal driving style or preferences.

OFF ROAD:
Just as an example, I've gone on a couple tough trails since I first posted this thread and paid close attention to how I use the AHC system. I find that AHC when in "high" mode is noticeably stiffer in a way that I don't really like. When in "high," the comfort-sport adjustment doesn't seem to do much as compared to when in AHC "normal"--it just feels firmer regardless of comfort setting. For this reason, when I hit the trail, I put the truck into 4LO, which automatically puts the AHC in "high," I then manually switch it back to "normal" for the ride quality I prefer and start up the trail. Whenever I encounter an obstacle that my 35's wont get me over without scraping the bumpers or belly, I switch it into "high," clear the obstacle, then switch it back into "normal" and continue down the trail. On a tough trail, this results in switching back and fort a lot. The overall experience is finicky and annoying to me and I find myself trying to negotiate harder and harder obstacles in "AHC normal" resulting in more bumps and bruises on bumpers and undercarriage. As I mentioned, my truck is not pristine, so this part doesn't bother me too much. The novelty of flipping a switch and getting a lift has worn off and I would prefer to just live at an off-road oriented ride height (as I have with every 4x4 I've owned over the years) and never have to think about it.

ON ROAD:
AHC provides great ride quality and good handling--there is no denying that. But when I drive a Land Cruiser or any rig with conventional springs and shocks, I just feel like I can tell what's happening under the truck better. More connected to the road. Even if an AHC truck could beat a conventional lifted truck through the slalom, which I'm sure it could, I just personally prefer the feel of traditional springs and shocks.

Other Considerations:
I'm considering a body lift to eventually accomodate 37's. All sliders designed around the AHC system, including my current slees, will leave an ugly gap between the slider and the rocker. Whereas if I delete AHC, I can get LC sliders designed for a body lift. There is a good selection of factory and aftermarket swaybars for the 200, so I feel I could get the on-road handling to a place that works well for me and maybe disconnect or remove the front sway ahead of off-road use.

In the meantime, I'll probably continue to use my AHC as I described and live with it. The biggest hurdle to the AHC delete is the simple fact that it costs money, lol.

Those are reasonable points and your use case has perhaps taken you beyond what can be expected of stock. To be fair, and to the mad people in the house that have never even used AHC, that happens much much earlier with the stock LC suspension.

For off-road, two factors that might help you weigh potential direction

1) AHC shouldn't get stiff in high, at least in terms of spring rate. A potential indication of globe wear is that with more hydraulic pressure in the system, either due to carrying more weight, AHC high, or both, is that it can cause a worn accumulator to bottom out and limit compliance. A worn accumulator has less charge pressure and volume behind the membrane which can create symptoms of stiffness or less compliance. The solutions would be to replace the globes.

2) AHC suspension travel in high - as would be expected, AHC high wants to bias for compression travel. For nominally 9" total travel, normal height splits that 3.5"/5.5" compression to droop respectively. High splits it 5.5"/3.5". Droop plays a big part in how slinky the suspension feels and with a biasing to ride height in high mode, may make that feel more constrained if that's what you mean by stiffness. If you're already sensor lifted, lack of droop can feel even worse. Solution maybe AHC Long Travel.

You may have already come across the AHC Long Travel thread. It think it might be worth a consideration unless you're already set to rip it out. It's a cheaper solution, and arguably a more broadly capable solution than any static suspension. Imagine all the slinkiness of AHC normal, but on steroids in AHC high. It also has the potential

Long Travel AHC

Probably no surprise, but I've been a big proponent oh AHC. Damping always dialed in regardless of load. Large fluid volumes and remote accumulator damper that stays cool with extended off-road travels. Actively pressurized for long term performance and durability. Combined with unique...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Heckraiser]

Yes, I've read the AHC long travel thread and already have the E&E Offroad rear shock brackets (not installed yet). Haven't done anything with the front yet as I'm not looking forward to cracking the system open to install spacers.

If I were super satisfied with AHC, I would also consider replacing globes at this point. I think my AHC works fine, but it's of an age (160k) where globes may not be performing to their potential. Main thing holding me back is spending money and time servicing a system that I'm not super keen on keeping to begin with.

 

[Killacaviar]

Yes, I've read the AHC long travel thread and already have the E&E Offroad rear shock brackets (not installed yet). Haven't done anything with the front yet as I'm not looking forward to cracking the system open to install spacers.

If I were super satisfied with AHC, I would also consider replacing globes at this point. I think my AHC works fine, but it's of an age (160k) where globes may not be performing to their potential. Main thing holding me back is spending money and time servicing a system that I'm not super keen on keeping to begin with.

We should really meet up. I’m happy to take a moment and run elephant hill or spring creek with you to feel the difference a 25mm front spacer. Rear shock mount relocation and 40mm of rear coil spacing does to the truck when in H mode, pair that with 35in tire dampening at 12psi and it makes for a comfortable and capable ride.

I will admit I too swap between Hand N offroad. Mainly because of the speed and the chatter that high mode imparts over the Little Rocks at 20mph.

I’ll be replacing globes soon. I’m at 140k and also adding another 6-8mm of front spacing with a tundra swap and 1.75in body lift.

I’m confident I can modify the Slee sliders to close the body lift gap.

I will move on from AHC at some point, just because I always want more. But it’s a great ride on the rocks, can’t argue that.

 

[Heckraiser]

Thank you, yes definitely I would love to check out your truck and take it for a test-jostle. We're doing wheeler lake on Thursday if you can swing it

 

[trudd]

That is because in HIGH mode, your articulation suffers...your LX is basically on high heels. So ride turns to crap.

On road, not sure about lifted kits, but a regular LC outhandles the LX (stock vs. stock).

Maybe it’s the margs talking, but I find it a bit distracting that this keeps backsliding into an LC vs LX ride quality thread.

An LX with conventional suspension won't ride like an LC, due to lack of KDSS, right? It’s apples to oranges to bananas at this point, right?

I mean this in the most earnest way possible - can this stop becoming a boring LC vs. LX convo, and graduate to LX AHC vs. LX Conventional analysis?

If there’s value in bringing the LC into this - great. Keep it up. I’d personally like to learn more about the experience/value props of LX-specific options, though.

 

[Killacaviar]

Thank you, yes definitely I would love to check out your truck and take it for a test-jostle. We're doing wheeler lake on Thursday if you can swing it

Ooof. Wish I could, that’s a top 5 CO trail for sure. Fun obstacles broken up by easy/incredibly scenic climbing/driving.

Let me know next time, I can usually swing anything with a week or two notice.

 

[ikoinu]

Heckraiser, I know exactly what you are talking about.

Personally, I have always enjoyed rough driving vehicles that leave you with no doubt about what's happening underneath. Owning long travel Jeeps, Defenders, my daily driver was a military Hmmwv for years (and will be again when I escape from LA), you grow accustomed to these vehicles feedback.

The AHC LX is definitely not like any of these. As capable in its own right, but not the same cup of tea. So I understand how you feel. The thing that prevents me from wanting to do any modifications to this suspension (besides AHC lift, which has not been really noticeable after doing it) is that it does everything so well, is highly adaptable, and damn if it isn't comfortable. In my mind it would be a shame to disable such a useful system.

In summary, I know exactly how you feel.
Just wanted to give my 2-Sats.