I have more skin in this than a lot of you guys and wouldn't hesitate to do business with Dave at DVS, regardless of what he and Joey "may" have agreed on.
Joey turned into a piece of crap, but I'm not denying Dave any business.
Wits End Order Issues / Joey Romero
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Joey turned into a piece of crap, but I'm not denying Dave any business.
Francis K
SILVER Star
Honestly I don't like the idea of Joey having made money off of this which I'm sure is the case, especially considering all the guys here he owes money to. There is A LOT not to like about that.
But at the same time this is what should have happened in the first place, Joey had a great business he was just a horrendous and shady businessman so he should have sold it off to a company or person better suited to handle it, or collaborated with someone who could handle the business end while he did what he did. It should have been done a long time ago before he screwed everyone over and while the business still had massive value but the guy is an idiot so it is what it is.
I'll say it again, if even a quarter of his claims about his orders were true his business was worth millions even at a conservative estimate, I cannot overstate how dumb he is to have let it come to this....
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@TRAIL TAILOR has a run in work. Shoot him a pm.
Maybe I’m just different but I’m not spending any of my hard earned money with a business that you know is tied to a thief and scumbag. Francis K is spot on with his post.
I’m sure that loser cashed out sending his stuff to Delta or maybe is even getting paid per run. Seeing him end up homeless on the streets of Portland should be the outcome of all of this.
How much of YOUR hard earned dollars did he make off with?
If he owes people money, an arrangement on record that provides him funds would likely be to the benefit of the claimants. that said, I myself have ZERO knowledge with regard to ANY of the entities referenced, but am speaking broadly and hypothetically. at the end of the day, its all business anyhow. its not like anyone is going to go living a life of luxury off of a handful of unique products for a niche market. if that were the case, he wouldnt have had to go under for being unable to fulfill a few handful of 6k orders and possibly not paying other A/P. its been interesting to follow this and I wish all the best. Ive seen many similar situations end with no repercussions at all.
Francis K
SILVER Star
You have no idea what you're saying and any dollar he makes from Delta is going in his pocket, it's not going to anyone here and your evaluation of the situation is so off it's comical.
I do ecommerce for a living I have multiple ecommerce businesses. If a fraction of his claims about how many orders he had were true his business would have been valuated in the millions EASY. Trust me I'm in the process of selling one of my ecommerce businesses, the valuations on ecommerce businesses are ridiculous right now ESPECIALLY for niche markets. On top of that he was taking pre-orders, taking orders for things he didn't have and wasn't even selling on third party venues....think if the guy was actually smart enough of a businessman to buy some UPC's, register his brand and sell them on Amazon or hell actually just answer customer inquiries! Trust me when I tell you the business was worth HUGE money, he's just an incredible idiot. If I could take orders for things I didn't have and my customers were actually okay with it and then ship them their orders months later, if at all, whenever I found them cheap or enough was purchased to do a run.....good god I would have retired to a desert island a long long time ago. That's not even to mention the rest of it, that alone is enough.
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Francis K
SILVER Star
Does it matter? This attitude that vendors are somehow doing us a favor by making money off of us needs to stop, we don't hold anyone accountable for anything until it's too late to do anything about it and a hundred more guys get scammed along the way. This isn't the first time it has happened and it's going to keep happening with this attitude, hell it's happening right now as we speak with ToyotaMatt.
Francis K
SILVER Star
100%, anything that was worth a dime he already sold off for cash and pocketed it. What he was going to let bankruptcy court have it? Or what he was going to ship it off to his customers? Yea because he's such a stand up guy I'm sure he cares so much about doing the right thing....
I have been on the unfortunate end of a scenario just like this multiple times both in business and pleasure, with greater dollars at stake. I do believe you misinterpreted my message as some form of giving the guy a pass. I am a realist. Yes, if he has income you may be able to collect. If he has proven ability to generate revenue he may restructure in some form or fashion. As I explicitly stated, I have no knowledge of any party. That doesnt mean it will
happen, but im curious how else you imagine people to recoup their funds. My concern is the people who lost out good money, not a pissing match with some deadbeat wannabe con man selling car parts, whom Ive never met.
And no, his business isnt worth your magical valuation. There are no sizeable assets, and no products that cant be produced by anyone else. He was retailing parts from others as well as sold his own unique parts that many shops are capable to reproduce. Its an efficient market, they can have at it if his TRUE margins are out of this world. His customer base is owners of a vehicle that is no longer in production. There is a limit to demand. Try taking your valuation to private banking and seeing if theyll write you an 80%loan against your "equity". I generally wouldnt reply to messages like this but your response was rather abrasive considering i had nothing directed toward you.
Francis K
SILVER Star
You're right his business is worthless now, the value in his business was in the revenue and projections which is all gone. There is no way for anyone to recoup their losses, that is the point. I'm sorry but you don't know anything about e-commerce businesses and how they are valued, barrier to entry means nothing when you have revenue and the guy claimed to have fulfilled tens of thousands of orders in a short time with little to no overhead. Bank loans and equity have no bearing on what I was speaking in regards to it doesn't work that way in exommerce. While I don't believe his claims 100% as he's obviously a notorious liar it did not even have to be a third true for the business to be incredibly valuable, especially considering how terrible it was run....it had massive potential. Furthermore if anything his customers base was getting larger, it's not as if he only sold parts for 80's.
I meant no disrespect in my words, I have a unique perspective on the situation and I'm tired of vendors here being given a free pass to screw over the community. It has happened too many times, my apologies if it came off too direct towards your comments.
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Agreed. A thief is a thief regardless if it’s $1 or $50k. Not surprised with that other scumbag Matt. I’ve seen him post backing up Wits s***ting on customers that have complained in the past. Cut from the same cloth.
Same regurgitated story...just give him some time blah blah Matt always comes through. When are you guys going to learn???
Matt who?
I'm out of the loop and have been removed from the other 80 communities besides this one for my refusal to quit crapping on His Joeyness and calling him out.
I'm just curious who you mean.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
I'd assume he's referring to Toyota Matt, another frequent flyer in this part of the forum.
USOffRoad
Supporting Vendor
It's a sad deal to see so many off road shops/businesses go under....for whatever reason. Hate it when folks get ripped get ripped off. It's hard over the last few years once the covid money ran out and inflation set in. Luckily we have kept our overhead very low, kept producing in bulk to keep costs down and stopped any expansion plans about a year and a half ago knowing this would be a time of survival for so many. This isn't my first economic roller coaster.
I've had many conversations with friendly competitors over the last 6 months, seen a few close up shop.
The vendor forum list here keeps getting shorter...
I've had many conversations with friendly competitors over the last 6 months, seen a few close up shop.
The vendor forum list here keeps getting shorter...
I understand and appreciate the comments, as well as your perspective in a similarly structured business. I will stand by, as unpopular as it may be, that having record of income source(as well as possibly as a result knowing where and how to serve an individual), could be useful for those who were scammed, should they be driven by principle hard enough to inflict pain on the guy. There is a distinction between unpaid debts and fraud, and bankruptcy may not free him of all liability as he wishes. There are people who he personally engaged with and misrepresented fact, used his personal life as justification, etc. I had posted a lengthy 2 cents suggestion for retrieving funds in the original wits end tech thread, lightly referencing piercing the viel, before bankruptcy talk appeared. I have spent ten times what was owed to me to make people pay for their attempts at burning me, with success, in the past. I am far from green in business and far from offering sympathy to this scammer. I just peek at this thread so often when i get little alerts. I hope he ultimately pays the price for all he has done, but regardless I will say there has been more justice in this scenario than I have seen in many. Am i saying that is sufficient for his transgressions? Absolutely no, but from my perspective I wanted to offer a bit of positive encouragement to those who got burned that he already has paid more than most do, no matter how unfortunate that reality may be. I do wish all the best.
Francis K
SILVER Star
There was an update a couple pages back where the seized assets consisted of a small truck load. I'll be honest I'm not too familiar with bankruptcy proceedings other than the basics but form my understanding the only recoverable funds would be from the liquidating of assets in which there was very little.
I also do recall reading that he didn't actually have an llc, while being the most incredibly stupid thing I can imagine (can't put that past him) it would help people recover losses as they could go after his personal. But that wouldn't make sense that a bankruptcy was performed, unless it was personal assets? I don't know, again bankruptcy isn't my forte beyond the basics.
Either way I would very much like to see the guys here get their money back before any big business creditors but I fear that may not be the case...
I'm sure there is more than one person here lurking who has consulted an attorney and they have told them if it's even worth their time or not. I know I have been screaming for months for guys to hurry up and take it to small claims before it's too late, looks like that time has passed. Kinda surprised nobody had done that...
Given the record of behavior I do not believe it would have been a difficult sell to get a judge to toss the layer of protection any LLC would have provided anyway, but that is remarkably foolish of him to go without one, regardless lol. For things to get to this point I would guess he has much more cash owed to other businesses than any amount of product value owed to consumers. I imagine (with zero knowledge) that is why you may see "arrangements" made with other shops, as whoever was originally providing him the materials probably still wants paid and may even now let materials and/or tooling go at a loss to someone willing to take over. If I were one of the comsumers burned and things got to this current point, I would wait for the smoke to clear and then hope I could find him. I would be sourcing and sorting every record I could and working to build a case from whatever angle that would ultimately lead to some form of court ordered structured payments. I will stop rambling and muddying up this thread, but will continue to poke in, in the hopes of seeing some future results for all these guys.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
There was an LLC at some point but I have no clue in what way it was tied to the business besides the fact the credit charges came from it: Clandestine Lab Partners, LLC
Francis K
SILVER Star
It's second hand knowledge, someone had mentioned it way back in the thread.