Just for clarity, Dave Schenker (in the FB post above) is one of the owners of DeltaVS? I’m not involved with the 80 world outside of popping in here or there.
Wits End Order Issues / Joey Romero (12 Viewers)
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Just for clarity, Dave Schenker (in the FB post above) is one of the owners of DeltaVS? I’m not involved with the 80 world outside of popping in here or there.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
That's what I've gathered from their website. They still have Wits' End featured on their site as a partner.
Well that’s disappointing to hear. I appreciate what Joey tried to offer to the 80 series community and loved reading the first turbo thread with all the designing that went into it, but still supporting him after he’s been proven for years now to not be honest and has stolen thousands of dollars is a shame.
Nice, I’ll be on the lookout for the switch pros ashtray mount as well. Need both to go with the proharness setup you sell.
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I don't know the DVS people but earlier in this thread people were wanting other companies to pick up the slack and produce some of these products and now someone is and that's an issue. I don't know that former close associates are required to issue a statement regarding their previous friendships and business arrangements, or present ones, but DVS isn't the only company that had ties and hasn't publicly discussed the fraudulent actions of WE.
I have a 1997 CE 80 that I flew across the country to buy, and it isn't anything special but was one of the few gray interiors I have come across, but my plans were to someday to use DVS products when I begin working on it. I guess I see the point though that they shouldn't have had that friendly arrangement as a business when this forum is filled with negative WE threads. Maybe someday it will be addressed. It would probably be a smart business decision to remove the WE partner link from the website, I can see why someone burned wouldn't want to spend money there.
I have a 1997 CE 80 that I flew across the country to buy, and it isn't anything special but was one of the few gray interiors I have come across, but my plans were to someday to use DVS products when I begin working on it. I guess I see the point though that they shouldn't have had that friendly arrangement as a business when this forum is filled with negative WE threads. Maybe someday it will be addressed. It would probably be a smart business decision to remove the WE partner link from the website, I can see why someone burned wouldn't want to spend money there.
Francis K
SILVER Star
I think the issue is that guys aren't stupid, they realize Joey is now just going to be selling his products under Delta....making money off the same products that should have been shipped to them but never were.
Really garbage situation
I'm not sure how it's going to be "his products" as WE is effectively dead, with no manufacturing capability remaining at all.
He would have to somehow be making money off of a product that someone else is making, marketing and shipping, with his only involvement being the original design.
I think the implication (whether it’s correct or not) is that he is using them as a storefront for his products, like a shell, which would be fraud if he’s in bankruptcy and not reporting it.
Detla VS posts start here (#846):
Wits End Order Issues / Joey Romero
Dang, I wish the website was still up just so I could grab some part numbers. Even though nothing was typically in stock or it was overpriced, it was an easy way to figure out part numbers without sleuthing too much. Yeah I did this all the time. Could find some good info and related PNs before...
forum.ih8mud.com
It seems like a good time to review what Delta has actually said. It certainly seems like many here have made the assumption that Joey is somehow making money off this arrangement, although nothing has been said definitively one way or the other.
Personally, I interpreted these posts as Delta coming to an agreement with the machine shop Joey used (hopefully to make them whole), before bringing the product manufacturing in-house. And maybe Joey had some input in the form of tips on the products or manufacturing.
I've always assumed there was an unspoken rule in the community to not pilfer another company's products, but now that Wit's End is defunct, the products are free game for anyone else to recreate.
Delta VS
Supporting Vendor
WOW.
y'all need jesus. or something.
Wits end is dead
Wits end is gone
Wits end never actually made anything
Turns out, Wits end never really designed anything. If Wits end designed anything, I'm pretty sure it would've been locked up in the court case and now owned by whoever prevailed.
I reached out to Joey months ago when I found out he was being sued (you know, innocent until proven guilty, US Constitution type thing), asking if it would be ok if Delta started making his stuff and selling it so that the market didn't get filled by others while he's getting his situation sorted, he said no. I said ok and left it at that. The Land Cruiser community is small and I have no intention to elbow my way into/onto/through/over anything or anybody else in this space. There are already plenty of garage businesses out there straight ripping off the ideas larger companies have a lot of design time invested in and selling them cheaper due to zero overhead. Delta doesn't need to have its name associated with that kind of behavior.
Fast forward to lawsuit getting wrapped up (to my understanding but I have no insider details) and he reached out to say have it.
I went and met with the machine shop that designed, prototyped, and machined all of the parts Wits end sold and struck a deal with him (the machine shop) to continue offering his products, formerly available through Wits end, since they are good designs and obviously people want them. The machine shop is owned by a really nice, down to earth, humble guy who designs and makes cool stuff. All he wants to do is make parts. Yes, he had some inventory that Wits end didn't pay for or take delivery of, most of which was unfinished. That inventory now has our name on it and is getting finished. Maybe someday we will bring the manufacturing of the CNC machined parts in house, but we are happy to work with this machine shop for the foreseeable future. He has plenty of capacity and as long as we pay him, he will provide us with parts in a timely fashion. These parts will be in stock on our shelves soon and remain that way, no more waiting for these parts for a run to be finished.
We are currently working on the sheetmetal parts in house, for manufacturing and stocking by us. No more waiting months for a batch of this or that to be made/delivered/whatever.
Many thanks to those who pointed out our website needed updating, it has been done. A lot going on the last few months, easy to overlook minuscule things like that.
Bottom line is we just want to see these products available to the community on the regular.
y'all need jesus. or something.
Wits end is dead
Wits end is gone
Wits end never actually made anything
Turns out, Wits end never really designed anything. If Wits end designed anything, I'm pretty sure it would've been locked up in the court case and now owned by whoever prevailed.
I reached out to Joey months ago when I found out he was being sued (you know, innocent until proven guilty, US Constitution type thing), asking if it would be ok if Delta started making his stuff and selling it so that the market didn't get filled by others while he's getting his situation sorted, he said no. I said ok and left it at that. The Land Cruiser community is small and I have no intention to elbow my way into/onto/through/over anything or anybody else in this space. There are already plenty of garage businesses out there straight ripping off the ideas larger companies have a lot of design time invested in and selling them cheaper due to zero overhead. Delta doesn't need to have its name associated with that kind of behavior.
Fast forward to lawsuit getting wrapped up (to my understanding but I have no insider details) and he reached out to say have it.
I went and met with the machine shop that designed, prototyped, and machined all of the parts Wits end sold and struck a deal with him (the machine shop) to continue offering his products, formerly available through Wits end, since they are good designs and obviously people want them. The machine shop is owned by a really nice, down to earth, humble guy who designs and makes cool stuff. All he wants to do is make parts. Yes, he had some inventory that Wits end didn't pay for or take delivery of, most of which was unfinished. That inventory now has our name on it and is getting finished. Maybe someday we will bring the manufacturing of the CNC machined parts in house, but we are happy to work with this machine shop for the foreseeable future. He has plenty of capacity and as long as we pay him, he will provide us with parts in a timely fashion. These parts will be in stock on our shelves soon and remain that way, no more waiting for these parts for a run to be finished.
We are currently working on the sheetmetal parts in house, for manufacturing and stocking by us. No more waiting months for a batch of this or that to be made/delivered/whatever.
Many thanks to those who pointed out our website needed updating, it has been done. A lot going on the last few months, easy to overlook minuscule things like that.
Bottom line is we just want to see these products available to the community on the regular.
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I have followed this saga for a while, both as a former customer of Wits End and as a "secured creditor" in Joey's bankruptcy proceeding and have participated in the legal process since learning of the Chapter 7 action last year, which led to the Joey liquidation, ending the business.
As someone who has done business with both Wits End/Joey and DVS/Dave I don't have a dog in this or any fight.
I know and trust Dave and his partner and believe him when he says what he says. He delivers and if you don't - your loss.
As someone who has done business with both Wits End/Joey and DVS/Dave I don't have a dog in this or any fight.
I know and trust Dave and his partner and believe him when he says what he says. He delivers and if you don't - your loss.
Delta VS
Supporting Vendor
Thank you Ward
Good to hear from the source. Now, can you hurry up and put those fancy new rear lower control arms on your site so I can get a set? My bushings are SHOT and I want the best.
Delta VS
Supporting Vendor
Thanks.
Now that the weather is warm it's high on the list. Shop was too cold for thicc 4130 welding without lots of extra garbage.
Thanks for the update and I'll look forward to supporting your wishes to providing these products to us again.
Francis K
SILVER Star
Your own words:
"Joey has had input but more of an agreement with the machine shop he used."
Also "innocent until proven guilty" has nothing to do with a civil suit.
I get it business is business but I'm sure even you'll admit that it's a bit of a sticky situation to be selling these products again to guys who have already paid for them and never received them. If you want to do some good instead of just looking like someone swooping in to take advantage of the situation I would suggest offering anyone who had an unfulfilled order placed the same item at cost price. Not my place to tell you what to do or how to run your business but if you're trying to claim the bottom line is something for the "community"........just saying, good luck either way.
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1MOA
SILVER Star
The nerd rage of this thread is epic.
Lol
DVS have been a phenomenal group to work with. They have been responsive, shipped promptly, offered sound advice and helped me though some ordering kerfuffles. I have their parts on both of my trucks and don't hesitate to share my experiences with others.
The conspiracy posts about posting who had been a good vendor - that all changes with time. I've personally never been burned by WE, and until this thread i had no idea all of this was going on. The post is from 6 months ago ... And if you scroll through you'll see me saying High Angle Driveline is great, that's before i paid for a custom shaft 6 months ago that i haven't received. I obviously wouldn't post the same review today. Our perceptions of our retail experiences changes with time and DVS has the same right to evolve their opinion as the rest of us.
@Delta VS thank you for stepping in and filling the void. I look forward to buying things from you that I'd wanted from WE for over a year that were never in stock.
Lol... So picking up these products and keeping them on the market isn't enough? DVS should sacrifice their profitability to support a situation that has nothing to do with them? You sound like the federal government.
DVS have been a phenomenal group to work with. They have been responsive, shipped promptly, offered sound advice and helped me though some ordering kerfuffles. I have their parts on both of my trucks and don't hesitate to share my experiences with others.
The conspiracy posts about posting who had been a good vendor - that all changes with time. I've personally never been burned by WE, and until this thread i had no idea all of this was going on. The post is from 6 months ago ... And if you scroll through you'll see me saying High Angle Driveline is great, that's before i paid for a custom shaft 6 months ago that i haven't received. I obviously wouldn't post the same review today. Our perceptions of our retail experiences changes with time and DVS has the same right to evolve their opinion as the rest of us.
@Delta VS thank you for stepping in and filling the void. I look forward to buying things from you that I'd wanted from WE for over a year that were never in stock.
That's a bummer to hear High Angle Driveline is not winning it these days. Before his shop burned down Jesse bought a Mazak he didn't know how to run. He found I had the same machine and i spent a lot of time on the phone getting him up and running parts on it. He seemed like a real good guy, but havent talked to him since he got the new shop finished. Hopefully he straightens his sh1t out. I might have his cell # still if you need it.
