crushers
post ho
sounds like a good suggestion, will do.
Winter snorkel issue
- Thread starter Malahki
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crushers
post ho
email sent
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Yes good point -- the restrictions in the overall system will reduce the airflow between what the engine needs (calculated) and what it is getting to the intake - more boost should compensate. Some airflow is taken to spin the impeller.
Yes good point -- the restrictions in the overall system will reduce the airflow between what the engine needs (calculated) and what it is getting to the intake - more boost should compensate. Some airflow is taken to spin the impeller.
crushers
post ho
incorrect, the EXHAUST air flow spins the propeller not the intake air flow.
up till it is boosted the volumm has to be constant, any restriction and ... well ... it defeats the purpose.
in reality, unless you are hitting high RPM during shifts the volumm of air will not be the issue.
Toyota engineers, in all their wisdom, has a small intake tube to the airbox even for the turbo'd engines. they share the same air box, same air filter, same intake tube to the air box, same size tube from air box to turbo or intake tube cross over ... and none of them are 4".
so ... what do you think?
up till it is boosted the volumm has to be constant, any restriction and ... well ... it defeats the purpose.
in reality, unless you are hitting high RPM during shifts the volumm of air will not be the issue.
Toyota engineers, in all their wisdom, has a small intake tube to the airbox even for the turbo'd engines. they share the same air box, same air filter, same intake tube to the air box, same size tube from air box to turbo or intake tube cross over ... and none of them are 4".
so ... what do you think?
No idea, sometimes I think about things, sometimes I let others do the thinking, if ARB tells me the snorkel doesn't flow enough air at 15+ psi then I listen to them - why bother doing the calcs after that. Kinda like your "mapped" turbo - did you do any calculating after they told you which one to use?
Cheers.
Cheers.
ARB?...or Safari?
crushers
post ho
Louis,
i agree with what you are saying.
thing is, it isn't the snorkel that will be the problem. it is the volumm of air that can get through the turbo intake. you can have NO tube at the turbo and the restriction is still there.
so
in my mind, it makes no difference what snorkel you are using, what precleaner you pick as long as it is BIGGER than the turbo intake.
it really is that simple.
(similar idea, if a 2 1/2" exhaust moves all the exhaust residue with no restriction then what is the advantage of having 6" exhaust? as long as the exhaust is larger than the exhaust port at the turbo (which is the restriction point) then it is large enough.
BUT
most people think that bigger is better, and, if that makes your penis happy, then do what you feel is right)
in your case Louis, how often are you going to be using max airflow?
i agree with what you are saying.
thing is, it isn't the snorkel that will be the problem. it is the volumm of air that can get through the turbo intake. you can have NO tube at the turbo and the restriction is still there.
so
in my mind, it makes no difference what snorkel you are using, what precleaner you pick as long as it is BIGGER than the turbo intake.
it really is that simple.
(similar idea, if a 2 1/2" exhaust moves all the exhaust residue with no restriction then what is the advantage of having 6" exhaust? as long as the exhaust is larger than the exhaust port at the turbo (which is the restriction point) then it is large enough.
BUT
most people think that bigger is better, and, if that makes your penis happy, then do what you feel is right)
in your case Louis, how often are you going to be using max airflow?
I dont agree, yes the input side of the turbo is 2.5 inches or whatever but 8-10 feet of 2.5 inch pipe all bent up would be restrictive as well. Here is what ARB sent me:
"Hi Louis,
That explains it. The combination of the boost level you are running and the pre cleaner will be exceeding the design airflow of the snorkel assembly.
If you can source a Donaldson 12” pre cleaner, or resort to the Safari Air Ram, that will help. According to the Safari Boffins you are roughly double the boost that the snorkel is designed to cope with. If you continue to collapse the hose, then a locally sourced alternative with stiffer walls will be the only additional step, however the cross section of the snorkel body will then be the limiting factor.
Kind Regards"
I want to go with the 4 inch custom because of the collapsing rubber joiner hose, it collapses under full load - which I do quite often because I love it. Also, that hose from collapsing so often actually stayed partially compressed, I could hear the engine sucking hard under full load.
Anyway, it isn't about my penis, it is about what actually works, the safari snorkel on my truck didn't work, it actually failed and is backed up by what ARB wrote to me. You should try paying attention to your projects and customers trucks, if I were you I'd want to install and fab up the best of the best, so might be a good idea to do some home work on things like this.
And leave my penis out of it, you have some growing up to do.
Cheers.
"Hi Louis,
That explains it. The combination of the boost level you are running and the pre cleaner will be exceeding the design airflow of the snorkel assembly.
If you can source a Donaldson 12” pre cleaner, or resort to the Safari Air Ram, that will help. According to the Safari Boffins you are roughly double the boost that the snorkel is designed to cope with. If you continue to collapse the hose, then a locally sourced alternative with stiffer walls will be the only additional step, however the cross section of the snorkel body will then be the limiting factor.
Kind Regards"
I want to go with the 4 inch custom because of the collapsing rubber joiner hose, it collapses under full load - which I do quite often because I love it. Also, that hose from collapsing so often actually stayed partially compressed, I could hear the engine sucking hard under full load.
Anyway, it isn't about my penis, it is about what actually works, the safari snorkel on my truck didn't work, it actually failed and is backed up by what ARB wrote to me. You should try paying attention to your projects and customers trucks, if I were you I'd want to install and fab up the best of the best, so might be a good idea to do some home work on things like this.
And leave my penis out of it, you have some growing up to do.
Cheers.
A small rubber joiner hose failed, and they told you to find a stiffer one.
Doesn't sound like the whole snorkel failed.
Safari are making a larger snorkel now anyway, it seems the advice you were given relates to the older/smaller Safari snorkel.
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No it doesn, please read again, "however the cross section of the snorkel body will then be the limiting factor."
That was in reference to the larger snorkel body that I asked them about.
So....the problem isn't solved, for factory applications it will work on the 1HDT and 1HZT, but not over factory boost. The small snorkel body is not designed for a turbo - and is too restrictive, the larger body will be for the turbo applications but at factory settings, boost at 15psi and the body of the snorkel will be the limiting factory according to ARB (who got the info from safari).
Don't shoot the messenger
Just passing the info on.
That was in reference to the larger snorkel body that I asked them about.
So....the problem isn't solved, for factory applications it will work on the 1HDT and 1HZT, but not over factory boost. The small snorkel body is not designed for a turbo - and is too restrictive, the larger body will be for the turbo applications but at factory settings, boost at 15psi and the body of the snorkel will be the limiting factory according to ARB (who got the info from safari).
Don't shoot the messenger
Just passing the info on.
I have read it a number of times, and it seems to me at least, that their mention of the cross section of the snorkel is in relation to your existing snorkel after fitting a stiffer joiner tube to overcome that particular problem with your existing snorkel, not in relation to the newer/larger snorkel.
Their response mentions your problem with your existing snorkel, and that the level of boost explains the problems you are having with the collapsing joiner on your older smaller snorkel, it doesn't seem to mention the newer larger snorkel at all.
I think that you are just guessing that the new larger snorkel will be too restrictive, and maybe reading that into their response.
The new snorkel is designed with a 4" head, and the body is larger than that below the head. It needs the hole through the fender to be enlarged over the standard snorkel hole.
I can't see that the newer snorkel body will be any more restrictive than a custom 4" snorkel. Maybe where it joins the airbox, maybe not, I have yet to see the section inside the fender, but if it is restrictive in there then it could probably be modified to overcome it.
What is the factory boost on a 1HD-FTE anyway, which the newer larger Safari snorkel is designed for?
I have seen this mentioned on the 4WDAction forums...
So, if the factory 1HD-FTE is boosting up to 15psi, and the newer larger Safari snorkel is designed for that much boost, what is the problem with it?
I have seen this mentioned on the 4WDAction forums...
So, if the factory 1HD-FTE is boosting up to 15psi, and the newer larger Safari snorkel is designed for that much boost, what is the problem with it?
But the factory standard maximum boost of the 1HD-FTE, which the newer larger Safari snorkel is design for, seems to be somewhere around 13-15psi anyway.
crushers
post ho
reply i got back from Sy-Klone:
Although the vehicle's turbo and air box have <3" openings the addition of length, even at the same diameter, adds restriction. By using larger openings and smooth curves you can minimize the restriction added by the adaptation. There are several considerations when sizing a precleaner but the two most important are: What is my airflow? and What restriction is acceptable?
Precleaners have an optimal airflow range. While different size precleaners have different airflow ranges, these airflow ranges can overlap. Below this range and you may not achieve the particle separation that you're looking for. Above this range your particle separation efficiency my drop but also damage the precleaner. So the nominal and maximum airflow of your engine is used to narrow down your precleaner choices.
The precleaner and all of the adaptation (including the size, path, and shape of the adaptation) used to install it add restriction. This restriction affects the ability of the engine to breath. The engine can handle additional restriction but at some point the restriction can become too great for the engine to overcome causing power loss. The restriction of the precleaner for the given airflow range of your engine is then used to choose the correct size precleaner.
Sincerely,
John Bernard Jr.
interesting read. of course this has to deal with the precleaner and not the actual snorkel housing. 4" snorkel will be 33% bigger than the 3" so IF there was an issue that should solve it. also the 4" will be roughly 75% bigger than the inlet on the turbo ...
but
this still doesn't answer the question about the restriction at the TURBO INLET ... volume is volume and if restriction is the issue then this is where it will be.
so
if you do enlarge everything else, it won't be helping the concern.
Although the vehicle's turbo and air box have <3" openings the addition of length, even at the same diameter, adds restriction. By using larger openings and smooth curves you can minimize the restriction added by the adaptation. There are several considerations when sizing a precleaner but the two most important are: What is my airflow? and What restriction is acceptable?
Precleaners have an optimal airflow range. While different size precleaners have different airflow ranges, these airflow ranges can overlap. Below this range and you may not achieve the particle separation that you're looking for. Above this range your particle separation efficiency my drop but also damage the precleaner. So the nominal and maximum airflow of your engine is used to narrow down your precleaner choices.
The precleaner and all of the adaptation (including the size, path, and shape of the adaptation) used to install it add restriction. This restriction affects the ability of the engine to breath. The engine can handle additional restriction but at some point the restriction can become too great for the engine to overcome causing power loss. The restriction of the precleaner for the given airflow range of your engine is then used to choose the correct size precleaner.
Sincerely,
John Bernard Jr.
interesting read. of course this has to deal with the precleaner and not the actual snorkel housing. 4" snorkel will be 33% bigger than the 3" so IF there was an issue that should solve it. also the 4" will be roughly 75% bigger than the inlet on the turbo ...
but
this still doesn't answer the question about the restriction at the TURBO INLET ... volume is volume and if restriction is the issue then this is where it will be.
so
if you do enlarge everything else, it won't be helping the concern.
I was referring to the SY-KLONE impellor not the turbo.
I see that Donaldson offers a debris ejection air precleaner as well. These units like the SY-KLONE have relatively narrow airflow ranges (3.03" ID is 90-200 cfm, 3.07" ID is 200-450 cfm), where the 4" ID 9001 SY-KLONE is 100 to 275 cfm).
Maybe the higher end airflow range is less important, since I won't be pulling maximum boost in a sandstorm. Maybe just run the normal snorkle hood on the highway and use the air pre-cleaner on dusty off-roads, where its much less likely I will need maximum boost.
crushers
post ho
for the troopy build it was recommended to use the 9005 unit.
i am also going to check on the Donaldson units. we are looking at a full one off snorkel with precleaner and large external fender mount air box
i am also going to check on the Donaldson units. we are looking at a full one off snorkel with precleaner and large external fender mount air box
crushers
post ho
BTW, thanks for doing the leg work for a comparrision. it is appreciated.
- Thread starter
- #59
Ok, getting back to my original post I have some more thorough results to report. These pics are after a 50km drive last night in the most severe winter driving conditions. I am talking white out conditions with drifting snow and top speeds of 60km/h.
- Thread starter
- #60
more.....
