Winter is coming - block heater installation (1 Viewer)

[Jason Andrews]

The kirk, yea that what I was thinking of. I knew I had read that somewhere which backs up my real world experience too. Idleing= too much time running at below normal op. temp.

AJP I dont have a block heater I was just reiterating? the principle of how I thought it worked.

Does anyone know anything about the other type I am talking about?...A radiator heater from the drain plug. I cant remember where I read about them. Would a radiator replacement drain plug/heater do the same job? Would it need to circulate the antifreeze to be as efficient? Opinions please

Also, Do all these block heaters need external power sources like the ones ive seen? Meaning you have to run an extension cord to the truck.

 

[wussyPup]

don't count on the "freeze" plugs from letting go before (or after) the block cracks....the holes are there to get the sand out of the block after it has been cast...

I've seen pictures of a frozen block pushing the freeze plugs out - don't remember if it was a Toyota engine.

A down side of these heaters is that their seal can fail. This happened to my dealer installed (when new) block heater in my Toyota Supra; a sudden, total coolant loss is never a happy moment.

-Steve

 

[wussyPup]

I'm going to call up to Victoria, BC, and see if the dealer there will do a mail-order for me

LOL - I live near Victoria. When I want Cruiser parts, I call cruiserdan

But if you insist on paying more, and Metro Toyota Victoria won't mailorder, send me a PM or email and I'll help out.

-Steve

 

[MTJohn]

My block heater has been working great and the proximity to the exhaust has not been any problem. As to why I did it, it just seems to me that starting a vehicle with oil that is colder than 0 degrees just has be be harder on the engine that starting with warmer oil. I understand oil viscosity comes into play here, but it just seems at some point on the temperature spectrum that the oil must take longer to circulate and actually lubricate, I have no empirical evidence of this, but I just feel better plugging in when the temperature is below 0 and the engine does turn over faster.

I ordered my block heater from Lethrbridge Toyota. (403) 329-6888

I think this covers all the questions directed at me.

 

[MARLIN375]

All block, inline coolant heaters, battery heaters, oil pan and dip stick heaters require 115V AC current.

IMHO the best heater to install is an inline (lower rad hose) heater that has a thermostat, I had one in my FJ40 for years, it heats and circulates coolant through your entire system (even your rear heater when controls were left open..FJ40) it would even keep snow off your windshield when you left controls set to defrost...FJ40.

Looked at sourcing one for my 80 but they are about 6 inches long and I could not find a spot to install.

opted for the block heater ( I still have not installed it...maybe a good thing it is part No.C0140-00134-S2.....one digit different than MTjohn's but the heater has the same numbers on it LR20976......hmmmmm.
Anybody measured the hole Diam?

 

[AJP]

AJP, Are you saying the blocks could crack if you installed the block heater? Have you had experience with this? I am sure Toyota made that part, for that location.

not at all! - properly installed they should have NO negative effect on your block......I am saying that some folks believe that the "frost" plugs, (one of which is removed to install a "Block Heater" ) are a "fail safe" that is/are intended to let go before the block cracks if the coolant freezes.... they are really there to plug the holes left from removing the casting sand/material. If they prevent a cracked block that is just serendipity...but don't bet on it.

Yes ... they (again we are talking about "frost" plugs ... not the block heater element that replaces the "frost" plug) "may" let go (eg pop out) if you inadvertently get caught with insufficient antifreeze (or no antifreeze) in your coolant in subzero temperatures....but that is not what they are designed to do.

I have experienced a situation on a 400ci Ford block where 2 "frost" plugs popped out due to water only being in the coolant jackets during subzero temperatures...the plugs popped...but the block cracked anyway eg a crack was left on the exterior casting wall. Point is that frost plugs are not a failsafe to prevent your block from cracking and are not a replacement for adequate antifreeze.

I am not even sure I would trust a block heater to maintain sufficient warmth in all parts of the engine water jacket to preclude plain old tap water from freezing in some remote part of your block (ie not adjacent to the block heater) on a real cold night...

 

[Felt]

Thank MTJohn, This all makes sense, I swear this forum makes me more paranoid each day I'm going to order one too, Cheers Felt.

 

[Felt]

AJP, Thanks for clearing that up. I really am getting old
Cheers, Felt

 

[AJP]

All block, inline coolant heaters, battery heaters, oil pan and dip stick heaters require 115V AC current.

actually not all require 115VAC check into Webasto's "BlueHeat" products ... they use the onboard battery as an igniter and fuel to heat....nice setup... but a little pricey...

 

[MARLIN375]

actually not all require 115VAC check into Webasto's "BlueHeat" products ... they use the onboard battery as an igniter and fuel to heat....nice setup... but a little pricey...

A little pricey is an understatement......

M.S.R.P. for a Webasto BlueHeat vehicle heater, including installation and a remote, is $2,249

Pretty cool idea but top secret......I couln't find a picture.
I have visions of an old VW gasoline heater with your heater hoses running in/out.

 

[wussyPup]

A little pricey is an understatement......

M.S.R.P. for a Webasto BlueHeat vehicle heater, including installation and a remote, is $2,249

Pretty cool idea but top secret......I couln't find a picture.
I have visions of an old VW gasoline heater with your heater hoses running in/out.

Wayne posted up his install in an HDJ81 - https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?p=724054

 

[Miescha]

thekirk: I haven't read this type of information anywhere that I can recall - but I've been told the same stuff by many people that I know to be knowledgeable car people. I've also heard the "click and clack" brothers on national public radio's "car talk" program say similiar things.

I guess I fall in the idiot category for having the remote start on my cruiser AND the block heater. I typically use the remote start in the summer to cool down the vehicle (just leave the a/c on when I park). As I said before, I use the remote start in winter only when really cold and I'm not in a place with easy access to a receptacle.

However, I'm wondering now if I should use the block heater less given that a replacement may be hard to find if the element goes out.

Oh - and I absolutely never park on gravel except when I do.

 

[Miescha]

I live in cold country (Northern Michigan) and have never had a vehicle with a block heater. How is it powered. Does it operate off a switch? Excuse the newbishness, these are uncharted waters for me.

The block heater (pic above) has a power cord that attaches to it and is fished out the front of the grill. I have mine zip-tied to the ARB bumper so I don't lose it. It is a standard three prong (with ground) power cord - 110v for those of us in the states.

Plug it in to an outlet (via a power cord) and the element heats up. I don't know the exact temp the block reaches when the element is operating - maybe someone more knowledgeable could help out. I'd be curious to know what the engine temp is during normal operation and what the temp is when the block heater is running.

If you live look at the front of most any diesel truck, you'll see the male end of a power cord hanging out of the grill - its for the block heater. In my Yukon XL, it came from the dealer (don't know if it was factory or dealer installed - but I'm guessing dealer) with the power cord hanging out the front tow hook, and not very well attached. I used a couple of zip ties to secure it to the tow hook.

My biggest concern on all my vehicles has always been that I would forget to unplug it and drive off. I've always hoped that it would only damage the extension cord and not the block heater cord.

 

[Miescha]

Miescha....curious about which side of the block on your '96 the heater is installed..instructions for my 1997 LX call for it on the drivers side and not on the exhaust side ... maybe before concretejungle starts his install... it may be he is on the wrong side of the block..and needn't worry about heat from exhaust manifolds...

I'll go check and post back

ON EDIT: I traced the power cord from my grill. It is fished behind the grill, then up past the DS headlamp assembly and into the factory battery tray (but why?) then out just past the radiator, then zip tied to various hoses and mounts, then it goes down and toward the fire wall and disappears just above the starter and just before the firewall. My big head can't see any past that point.

I don't know how many freeze plugs there are or where they are, but it seems pretty certain mine is on the driver's side (US spec) and at the rear between the starter and firewall.

Hope this helps.

 

[Miescha]

Thank MTJohn, This all makes sense, I swear this forum makes me more paranoid each day I'm going to order one too, Cheers Felt.

Me too! I have a block heater and I'm so paranoid that I'm thinking about ordering another as a spare!

I should stop reading these forums and I would sleep better not knowing what I didn't know.

 

[Miescha]

A little pricey is an understatement......

M.S.R.P. for a Webasto BlueHeat vehicle heater, including installation and a remote, is $2,249

Pretty cool idea but top secret......I couln't find a picture.
I have visions of an old VW gasoline heater with your heater hoses running in/out.

Definately pricey - but WOW! I've never heard of a Webasto before reading the linked thread, but I'm ready to buy one. I just can't figure how it would work without killing the battery (batteries)? I'll keep looking.

 

[Miescha]

Here are pics of the block heater cord hanging out the front of my grill (I tuck it behind the ARB bar near the winch control plug when not in use to hide it). It has a plastic cap that covers the prongs of the cord to prevent corrosion and the like.

 

[AJP]

Thanks Miescha....that seems to "indicate" that it is installed on the driver side of the block... look down near the oil filter if you have a chance..if you see the flat (3 wire) electric cord plugged into the side of the block (on the block heater unit) adjacent the oil filter - that would confirm it.

That is certainly the recommended location for the heater in 1997 models fwiw ... and makes some sense as it avoids the hot exhaust manifolds

 

[BOZ]

I opted for an oil pan heater while I researched the block heater issue. a very easy install, just glue it to the bottom of the oil pan. I also bought an inline heater for the radiator. I have not installed this yet. You have to cut the metal heater pipe and I have not doen this yet.

When I plug in for cold days, at least the oil is not peanut butter when the lifters are screaming for oil.

The gas fired heater sounds pretty cool, would make a nice mod for the extreme days. Here in Valdez, it only gets in the teens for the most part, some days colder. Fairbanks is the cold spot at 50 below.

Boz

 

[firetruck41]

Miescha- if you are worried you will wear out the block heater, just order one, search the threads on block heaters and you will find several sources. Mine was $13 including shipping from Canada off of ebay.
I have not heard of a block heater failing. Though there are not many in use around here except in some diesel trucks, we use the at work for our ambulances, they are plugged in year round and I have never heard of one failing. Our oldest ambulance is 10 years old, that is 10 years of being plugged in 24/7/365 unless the rig is out running a call...