Winch Size

[80t0ylc]

FYI, I've been running a WARN 9.5 for over 5 years on my 80. My Badlands never failed, but it kept getting noisier as time went on. WARN and ComeUp are what I rely on for my rigs. I do a LOT of recoveries (10+ on Friday alone) and needed to be sure of my equipment.

Thanks for your reply, Woody. I'm more enlightened now on what you're relying on, on your 80. It seemed before that in your testing of the Badlands 12K, you were relying on it. But, it's been 11 yrs and time flies and to be honest, I haven't been following your winch adventures except in your posts on old Harbor Freight threads. It seems your Badlands has seen a lot more use than mine...lol. But, that works out for my benefit and others that run with a HF 12K. I really didn't mean to drag you into this rabbit trail off the OP's thread. But, to get back on track since you're here, can you comment on your opinion of winch size on an 80 series? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[80t0ylc]

Had not seen that video. I'm impressed with the power of the Badlands winch's motor. But, to tweak the housing like that shows a serious mismatch in housing to motor strength and concerns me if previous generations of HF's winches are prone to this. If that's a 6 HP like on my 11 yr old 12K, I'd like to see it on a matched housing. I need to watch mine if it starts to bog down on the 1st wrap. I'd also be interested in Harbor Freight's response to this video.

 

[Broski]

Had not seen that video. I'm impressed with the power of the Badlands winch's motor. But, to tweak the housing like that shows a serious mismatch in housing to motor strength and concerns me if previous generations of HF's winches are prone to this. If that's a 6 HP like on my 11 yr old 12K, I'd like to see it on a matched housing. I need to watch mine if it starts to bog down on the 1st wrap. I'd also be interested in Harbor Freight's response to this video.

To be clear I did not mean to offend you

To me a winch is a piece of safety equipment, with the kind of wheeling that I do I need to have the best safety equipment/winch

 

[kjkruer]

Had not seen that video. I'm impressed with the power of the Badlands winch's motor. But, to tweak the housing like that shows a serious mismatch in housing to motor strength and concerns me if previous generations of HF's winches are prone to this. If that's a 6 HP like on my 11 yr old 12K, I'd like to see it on a matched housing. I need to watch mine if it starts to bog down on the 1st wrap. I'd also be interested in Harbor Freight's response to this video.

I saw that video the other day. I noticed in the comments there was a lot of people that said he failed to mention that his Warn winch failed first…. Then he tried to do the same thing with the HF winch and it also failed…. But he never mentioned the Warn failing. Either way….. who knows how much force he was putting on that winch trying to pull that tree stump out. I get the point and I’m no expert, but I don’t know if that was a fair test…

 

[LINUS]

Well, and a tangent support of @Broski - what’s your reliability between a Badlands or a Warn?

Also, does Badlands do rebuild kits or do you pitch the whole thing when it pukes?

Gotta think of some places to reduce a carbon footprint, or even give China more $$ than needed.

I’m happy staying all Warn from quads to rigs to -yes, I’m winching my boat with a Warn units.

——————

Down the road, if you go to sell - what’s a Badland winch going to ‘check the box’ vs just saying it wears a Warn spooler.

Smart money is Warn IMO, all day long.
YMMV.

 

[Broski]

The winch should shut down before it destroys itself.

I saw that video the other day. I noticed in the comments there was a lot of people that said he failed to mention that his Warn winch failed first…. Then he tried to do the same thing with the HF winch and it also failed…. But he never mentioned the Warn failing. Either way….. who knows how much force he was putting on that winch trying to pull that tree stump out. I get the point and I’m no expert, but I don’t know if that was a fair test…

 

[80t0ylc]

I saw that video the other day. I noticed in the comments there was a lot of people that said he failed to mention that his Warn winch failed first…. Then he tried to do the same thing with the HF winch and it also failed…. But he never mentioned the Warn failing. Either way….. who knows how much force he was putting on that winch trying to pull that tree stump out. I get the point and I’m no expert, but I don’t know if that was a fair test…

Excellent point to mention! However, in the video he claims winch failure, but never showed the results of the failure (broken parts). What he did show was the broken plastic parts from the tweaked housing and focused on the burning smell, which turned out to be a plastic part that touched the hot contact. I just watched this video (below) of the same winch that had a similar "failure". It turned out to be the winch plate that it was mounted on bent from the stress and allowed the housing to tweak. I'm wondering now if it was similar on this 1st video which caused both winches to fail and the HF winch housing just needed to be squared up to continue working.

 

[80t0ylc]

The winch should shut down before it destroys itself.

The which should shut itself off before it destroys itself.

How's the winch going to know if the mount is the problem? When you mount a winch hidden or in a spot that you can't keep an eye on it or touch it to feel the heat generated, IMHO you're asking for trouble! We never saw a clear view of the truck's mount in that video.

 

[LINUS]

So bottom line -

If you need to get dragged kicking & screaming to a Warn then you are a Badlands guy. Cool.

I chose to go Warn since they were on everything I grew up seeing & used from vehicle fixes to dragging logs off roads, so I was bound & determined to go Warn, 100%.

That was my early years - I’m Warn winches & Wooldridge boats, I won’t sink a dime in anything but those 2.

You do you.


waste of words to say more

 

[Broski]

How's the winch going to know if the mount is the problem? When you mount a winch hidden or in a spot that you can't keep an eye on it or touch it to feel the heat generated, IMHO you're asking for trouble! We never saw a clear view of the truck's mount in that video.

Like I said I’m glad it’s good enough for you!!

 

[80t0ylc]

The winch should shut down before it destroys itself.

Not sure how you'd design that in other than the thermal shutdown for over stressing the winch. It wasn't that kind of failure. The housing shifted and that could have been the way it was mounted to the bumper or frame. I have to give the winch credit that it kept trying to pull, despite the failure. That's a never say die attitude in my book. I understand people's loyalty to a proven product like Warn. What I don't understand is the dishonesty of someone posting a negative video and NOT mentioning that they tried the same test prior to that video with a Warn winch and the Warn failed, too. And all through the video praising how reliable Warn is and how inferior the Badlands to the point of it being unreliable. Just seems like propaganda to me.

 

[ChaseTruck]

...
Also, does Badlands do rebuild kits or do you pitch the whole thing when it pukes?
...

Yes. That was always in the back of my mind for the HF12k (the first-gen, not the newer Apex) on the '93.

You see, originally, we weren't really going to use the truck for 'wheeling. The HF12k was an excuse-me winch. Of course, now that truck has moved across the country, is used for trail riding (not for rock crawling), and the HF12k is still on there... It has worked when asked, but I only have one hard pull on it in all those years. Been eyeing a ComeUp, lately.

 

[John McVicker]

But, to get back on track since you're here, can you comment on your opinion of winch size on an 80 series? Inquiring minds want to know...



Not at all trying to speak for Woody, but my thinking is he answered this question by stating what winch he is now running on his 80… a Warn 9.5. I think it’s safe to say he could have the ‘pick of the liter’…& that is what he chose.

 

[LINUS]

But, to get back on track since you're here, can you comment on your opinion of winch size on an 80 series? Inquiring minds want to know...



Not at all trying to speak for Woody, but my thinking is he answered this question by stating what winch he is now running on his 80… a Warn 9.5. I think it’s safe to say he could have the ‘pick of the liter’…& that is what he chose.

Me? - not sure who that was meant for.

I get Woody going 9.5 if he has the $$ now to just go do dry Moab when he wants.

I live in wet,sticky mud WA & used to go when I could locally.

The Tundra has a Zeon 10K - M12K on the LC80.

And I never have done single line pull in ~15yrs, a pulley & 2 clevis or soft shackle, I’m able to take down a house. But I was also SAR / 1st response EMT in the refinery where we learned all rope rescue skill since you technically weren’t supposed to use a crane to pull a victim out to safety/transport to ER/hospital.

I view my 80 / all my rigs as a exclusive party.
I only want who I want & can depend on and will help even when chips fall wrong.

I’m not joking - I have a older M1500 on a ‘06 YFZ450 2WD quad, a Venture 2500 on my ‘17 Yamaha Kodiak & I’m bulding a crazy stout bulkhead for my 22’ Wooldridge boat to case a 4500 series w/ synth so I can drag it over downed logs in river / clip an anchor for electric ease in salt.

The only single line pull I did in last 15yrs is with the Kodiak / pulling dead project cars around to lifts / storage, etc. Dry, level ground stuff.

I hope that explains my mentality on winching.

Cliff Note:
Size - I’d only consider < a M12K if 100% of the living / wheeling was bone dry - if you live anywhere wet or cross any water, I’m M12K all day / twice on Sun.

The 10K Zeon in the Tundra was a fluke b/c the new demo unit was <$500 on my doorstep ~5yrs ago. Again I’m a strong believer in a single compound pull from the get-go.

But I live where I’ve buried 80 axles in mud to the drivetrain pans & had to get out w/o a bigger rig / no greater force than my M12K & a compound pull.
My old LX450 was pounded hard / proved my love of 12K winch w/ a single battery & hand throttle.

 

[mudgudgeon]

triple lockers are a must before THE Winch

And get stuck when triple locked at least you know you REALLY need that winch now.

Lockers can put you deeper in the shìt to the point where you're beyond a safe solo recovery

 

[ChaseTruck]

But, to get back on track since you're here, can you comment on your opinion of winch size on an 80 series? Inquiring minds want to know...



Not at all trying to speak for Woody, but my thinking is he answered this question by stating what winch he is now running on his 80… a Warn 9.5. I think it’s safe to say he could have the ‘pick of the liter’…& that is what he chose.

If that refers to my post, those inquiring minds "could" read the entire thread... 12k on one of them, 8k on the other.
If I were to buy new today, I'd go with a 12k that fits the Slee shortbus bumper. By the same token, I'm not worried about the 8k, either. It's a Warn, after all...

 

[canman]

There’s no right or wrong. Get what makes you comfortable with what you envision doing with your rig. Watched too many 24/7 vids the last couple of months. The Aussies are by far IMHO, the most extreme off-roaders I’ve seen thus far. Seen them snap a many syn winch cables, seen them double up with snatch blocks/rings, seen them having to use multiple winches to free stuck vehicles that were pulling trailers. Then I watch Matt’s Off-Road Recovery, and was stunned to see he hates using a winch and very rarely uses one. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Broski]

Thanks for your reply, Woody. I'm more enlightened now on what you're relying on, on your 80. It seemed before that in your testing of the Badlands 12K, you were relying on it. But, it's been 11 yrs and time flies and to be honest, I haven't been following your winch adventures except in your posts on old Harbor Freight threads. It seems your Badlands has seen a lot more use than mine...lol. But, that works out for my benefit and others that run with a HF 12K. I really didn't mean to drag you into this rabbit trail off the OP's thread. But, to get back on track since you're here, can you comment on your opinion of winch size on an 80 series? Inquiring minds want to know...

It was @80t0ylc post

And I had the same thought as John McVicker.

 

[80t0ylc]

I get Woody going 9.5 if he has the $$ now to just go do dry Moab when he wants.

I live in wet,sticky mud WA & used to go when I could locally.

But I live where I’ve buried 80 axles in mud to the drivetrain pans & had to get out w/o a bigger rig / no greater force than my M12K & a compound pull.
My old LX450 was pounded hard / proved my love of 12K winch w/ a single battery & hand throttle.

Parts of OR can get as "wet,sticky mud" at times. It pays to have the extra "oomph" that the 12K provides when wheeling in PNW. Not to mention steep downhill extractions when the extracted rig encounters obstacles.

 

[woody]

But, to get back on track since you're here, can you comment on your opinion of winch size on an 80 series? Inquiring minds want to know...

The obvious answer is, winches are sized relative to your vehicle weight....7000# rig should have a 10,500# or greater winch (1.5x vehicle weight) Being smart about the use of a snatch block, ensuring you are on the smallest drum wrap for max winching power, using the correct hook points and recovery gear all play a major role in a successful/safe recovery. I know may people with undersized winches who have never had issues because they know WHEN to use the snatch block or when multiple winch lines are needed.

That varies with your terrain however. Mire factory in mud (ew) is high, so VERY buried rigs (we had a few dozen on the sand/mud/beach this weekend) where you are to the frame throws that out the window. One rig was slowly extracted with 4 vehicles daisy chained for a steady pull. The REALLY buried ones required a tracked vehicle or the 6WD military truck from Casey's Off Road Recovery to ease them out. Huge kinetic ropes are often used to "pop" a rig free, but you also often need to lift the axles up during that process, so a large inflated tire with the line rolling over the top is used to create that lift. Another recovery out here required a skyhook lift....winches on either side of the canyon, snatch block in the middle, and raising the buggy vertically out of position (should be a killer video from Rory at Moab Motorsports)

I run a WARN 9.5 on the FZJ80. I have a 10k ComeUp 24v on the BJ74. I have a WARN 9.0RC on the buggy (2x+ it's weight). At the level my group plays/wheels, I need to have the most reliable equipment I can. We play hard. And I'm frequently "the guy" who gets the call from friends who can't get themselves out.

I used my 9.0RC to do an endo-flip of an upside down buggy at Trail Breaker on Friday (plus 5-6 other recoveries)

We used two winches for this recovery on Thursday....this is pretty typical stuff for me

In this pic, I'm using a Raptor Sling from JM Rigging to roll this tire out from the wedge....busted u-joint. Randy actually wheels his new show car