Why have an inner seal on FF?

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they nailed it alright ...
the vent allows water in as the axle internals cool.
them Brits should not be designing anything.
Further, if a hub is oil-filled from the axle housing it benefits from the axle housings breather. When it cools and the air inside contracts, it pulls air through the breather instead of pulling a vacuum.

See landrover had this stuff down over 50 years ago. It's one of the things they really nailed.
 
they nailed it alright ...
the vent allows water in as the axle internals cool.
them Brits should not be designing anything.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you work as a mechanic?

You know about a thing called a breather hose? It's attached to the vent on the axle casing and extends up to a location that is clean and dry enough to not cause problems.

Axle breathers are not a landrover specific item. Landcruisers, jeeps, Isuzus, Mitsubishis, trucks, cars with beam axles. They all have them.

Here is a nice little article on improving the breathers on a toyota:
ToyotaOffRoad.com - Installing Differential Breathers
 
I don't know if the hub seal on the back would keep the oil from coming out - I suspect not.

You suspect correctly :D

I had an axle seal fail, and let it go for a few weeks before fixing it, I had oil all over the hub, brake rotor, pads etc

The seal in the back of the hub is a dust seal, definitely not oil tight.
 
depending on the vehicle, some have hoses with the vent cap on the end, some have them on the diff ...
your an engineer,
why is it when you run the diff breather line up to the firewall you still get water contamination in the diff?
why is it when the axle seal leaks on the front diff tube end of a cruiser and gear oil mixes with the grease the bearings fail in very short order?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you work as a mechanic?

You know about a thing called a breather hose? It's attached to the vent on the axle casing and extends up to a location that is clean and dry enough to not cause problems.

Axle breathers are not a landrover specific item. Landcruisers, jeeps, Isuzus, Mitsubishis, trucks, cars with beam axles. They all have them.

Here is a nice little article on improving the breathers on a toyota:
ToyotaOffRoad.com - Installing Differential Breathers
 
You suspect correctly :D

I had an axle seal fail, and let it go for a few weeks before fixing it, I had oil all over the hub, brake rotor, pads etc

The seal in the back of the hub is a dust seal, definitely not oil tight.

x2 ,my experience also
 
x2 ,my experience also

x 3

And BTW - All my hub seals are double-lipped (as they were ex-factory) despite the fact that my hubs are designed to contain only grease.

And my experience of oil lubricated wheel bearings on my 1965 series 2A landrover was extremely negative. (Oil getting onto my brake linings was a regular problem and trying to get back to "zero left or right brake-pull" after a river crossing took kilometres of driving with foot-on-the-brake due to the water carrying oil residue from the seal-lip-area onto the linings.
:beer:

PS. Here's the old girl ..... (My first diesel 4x4)

1985Landrover.jpg

(Hey ... looks like I mislabelled the photo as 1985 instead of 1965 but it's just that I took the photo in 1985. LOL)
1985Landrover.jpg
 
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WOW! Looks like I stirred up a hornet's nest. I'd better wait a day or two before responding!
 
went back and edited my posts ...
Astr, my bad. i don't agree with the idea but personal jabs are unwarranted.
please accept my apology.
 
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How 'bout this as a reason to keep the diff lube and the wheel lube seperate.

Redundancy.

You can blow a hole in the side of your diff and still drive 1000 miles in front wheel drive.
 
depending on the vehicle, some have hoses with the vent cap on the end, some have them on the diff ...
My rover has hoses from the factory that run to about 700mm above ground level.

your an engineer,
why is it when you run the diff breather line up to the firewall you still get water contamination in the diff?

They don't, unless you get water over the top of the breather hose or you have a leak in an axle seal or the breather system.

why is it when the axle seal leaks on the front diff tube end of a cruiser and gear oil mixes with the grease the bearings fail in very short order?

The oil washes out the grease and then leaks out itself.

I'm honestly surprised you are having soo much difficulty accepting oil as a bearing lube. Think about your gearbox, transferbox and diff bearings.

45kevin said:
How 'bout this as a reason to keep the diff lube and the wheel lube seperate.

Redundancy.

You can blow a hole in the side of your diff and still drive 1000 miles in front wheel drive.

You can do that with oil bathed hubs too. A hole in the side of the diff can't drain a hub of oil.
 
:lol:
for an engineer you sure are ignorant of how a FF works on a cruiser when the rear axle is removed.

as for getting water into an axle that isn't over the breather, many cruiser owners have experienced it.
maybe that is why Toyota recommends packing the hubs and changing the gear lube after water exposure ...
 
I sorta suspected that the majority of responses that I would get would tell me why it wouldn't work, all from people who hadn't tried it. Well, Mr. Toyota never put a Chevy V8 or an Isuzu diesel in the Land Cruiser, yet many have and are happy with the results. You have to think a little outside the box to make forward progress.

I do thank everyone for their responses even if they were just an opinion. I just picked up a beater FZJ80 with a FF so I may just go ahead and try it. I'll report back the results. So if you see a green FZJ80 by the side of the road with smoke comming from the rear end, wave as you go by and yell out "I told you so" ;););)

WOW! Looks like I stirred up a hornet's nest. I'd better wait a day or two before responding!

Just sit back Astr. You're committed to dismissing all our posts because we're all disqualified in your eyes. So your next step can only be to tear out your axle seals and post up your experiences of running gooey wheelbearings over the coming years.

And this thread's skipping along quite nicely without you even if you are the OP.:D

went back and edited my posts ...
Astr, my bad. i don't agree with the idea but personal jabs are unwarranted.
please accept my apology.

My God!!!! :eek:

Have you been "born again" or what Crushers?

I'm now worried about your personal wellbeing.

Do you have ready access to counselling over there or are you snowed-in and alone?

I've learnt a lot about your country by watching ICE ROAD TRUCKERS. And because of that fine program, I've seen first-hand how living in such inhosptable terrain can easily send you over the edge ... both mentally and physically. Take care :D


My rover has hoses from the factory that run to about 700mm above ground level.
They don't, unless you get water over the top of the breather hose or you have a leak in an axle seal or the breather system.
The oil washes out the grease and then leaks out itself.
I'm honestly surprised you are having soo much difficulty accepting oil as a bearing lube. Think about your gearbox, transferbox and diff bearings.
You can do that with oil bathed hubs too. A hole in the side of the diff can't drain a hub of oil.

I can't recall anyone here suggesting grease (oil + soap) is in any way a better lubricant than oil alone Dougal.

So I'm afraid, much as I'd like to support a fellow kiwi in an argument, your posts here suggest to me that you're just up to your old tricks of baiting Wayne.

Be warned! He's obviously already weakened and continuing in this vein may leave him permanently scarred ... or even worse!

He's obviously undergone some inexplicable life-changing experience that's changed his personality from the loud cantankerous persona we've grown to love so much.

Sigh! .... Bring back the old wayne

EDIT. Perhaps I should delete this post? I'm not at all serious in the s***e I've witten here! It's just the "sarcastic me" writing as I sometimes like to talk (to provoke reaction I guess)... I realise it's pretty easy for people to mistakenly take serious offense.... S-o-r-r-y. (Oops. Now perhaps I'm having my own lifechanging experience. I did get on the piss last night if that's an acceptable excuse?)
 
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How 'bout this as a reason to keep the diff lube and the wheel lube seperate.

Redundancy.

You can blow a hole in the side of your diff and still drive 1000 miles in front wheel drive.

That is a very good point :hhmm:
 
My rover has hoses from the factory that run to about 700mm above ground level.




I'm honestly surprised you are having soo much difficulty accepting oil as a bearing lube. Think about your gearbox, transferbox and diff bearings.

Im honestly surprised you are on a landcruiser forum trying to tell us how good Landrovers are LOL



You can do that with oil bathed hubs too. A hole in the side of the diff can't drain a hub of oil.

Of course the oil will stay in the hub on a flat road,but how often do you blow a hole in the diff on a flat road??
 
Based on my experience with FF wheel bearing maintenance, I doubt they would ever lock up and cause the wheel to stop spinning. I think they're more likely to simply spin on the spindle.
And if that goes on too long, the spindle will wear and make it even less likely to lock up, and the race and spindle will continue wear each other out, and then maybe one day, the spindle will break. Now that could cause a lock up, I'm guessing.

Anyway, back on topic. I had a bad axle seal once on a FF. The hub seals did not hold the oil in. But maybe the hub seals were worn too. In any case, I wouldn't risk it. FF axle housings for old landcruisers aren't made anymore, treat them carefully.
 
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The perfect response :clap:

Perfect.jpg

:lol:
Perfect.jpg
 
Wow I thought my bookmark in my browser got changed to Pirate4x4.com

Then again it is just Crushers and Dougal, both very annoying sometimes but also very smart and in a odd way very respectable dudes. And this isn't there first rodeo together ASTR, I don't think they would ever admit it but they have a secrete bro-mance going on. It turns them on to out flex each other.

With these two, ah whatever.



SSOOOO... you going to try it? hahaha

Edit: btw this is about the time they both just stop even clicking on the thread to avoid further boiling over lol
 
:lol:
for an engineer you sure are ignorant of how a FF works on a cruiser when the rear axle is removed.

There are no end of ways to get home with a broken or removed half shaft. If you don't know them, it's not my fault.
None of these methods are any different between greased or oiled hub bearings.

as for getting water into an axle that isn't over the breather, many cruiser owners have experienced it.
maybe that is why Toyota recommends packing the hubs and changing the gear lube after water exposure ...

Cruiser owners who have a leak which is letting water in. Not sure what your point is here.
Of course Toyota tell you to check/change fluids after driving in deep water. All machinery operating in wet conditions gets that recommendation.
And if you find water in your oil, then it pays to find the entry point.
 

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