Which plugs should I be running - B, 2B, 3B, H and 2H diesels (11 Viewers)

[Dougal]

Why not install a block heater (and plug it in overnight) like those people in Canada do Dougal? That way you should get heat from your existing heater setup immediately in the morning. (And using mains-power in your garage instead of vehicle-battery-power has advantages in itself.)

I think immersing glow plug tips in coolant would vaporise the coolant nearby without actually transfering much heat to the coolant-flow (assuming that's what you intended to do). And I think the heat-transfer-surface-area of a glow plug tip is too small to rapidly heat coolant even if you could lower the tip temperature sufficiently to stop the "instant vaporisation problem".



PS. And manufacturers claim that getting oil on a glow plug tip can "blow holes in the tip" when they are next energised ... so I'd hate to think what immersing them in coolant would do! (I think the tip metal may be somewhat porous.)

PPS. You're "thinking outside the square" Dougal. And apparently that is taboo. Would you believe a prospective employer recently declined my job application after deciding in my interview that I was aflicted with this very same attribute/handicap? Apparently you must always do only what everyone else already does!

Just an update on my scheme. It turns out Ze Germans are way ahead of me. Check this picture out:

http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/vwparts4sale/the-15660/Coolant-Water-Hose-Flange/Detail

I also found a maybe suitable glowplug, Bosch GPT-221 (aka 250 202 073) which allegedly is form a 2-LT. It's a 6v plug so will either be a stellar performer on 12v or will give me the finger and emit a puff of smoke.

 

[peteinjp]

Thanks Pete.

Until constructing this thread, I didn't realise exactly how difficult it is now to "identify and obtain" suitable glow plugs for cruisers that use Glow Controller pre-heat.

When our cruisers were made, glow plug technology was pretty basic. But nowadays some of the new plugs apparently behave just like Super Glow plugs all on their own (without the need for the "timer", "current sensor" etc of old). So it looks like some manufacturers simply couldn't resist incorporating some of that new technology into the plugs they market for older pre-heat systems. And your new VSP PT-104 plugs are our "exhibit A" for the charge of "neglecting to foresee the harmful effect of reduced-current on the "visual-effect of glowing" performed by Glow Controllers".

This makes me wonder if the new plugs offered for Fixed Delay and Super Glow systems have any harmful side-effects too. (I don't think it is likely ... but you never know.)

BTW - Good luck with the NGK Y-178T plugs you bought.

Had to update this as it is clearly the be-all place to look for GP info on our Cruisers. I had not had time- or need- to try the NKG plugs until today. I noticed that the controller was glowing a little slower yesterday- and then not at all today. So I check for continuity and #4 (original plugs with approx 180,00km) was bad. Pulled the NGK Y-178T's off the shelf and popped them in today. Result: perfect. These plugs operate as they should with the controller glowing in the same amount of time as my stock units did.

Best!

Pete

 

[Gillinski]

Orange light mistery

Hi everybody,

I read a lot about the pre-heating systems, but i have to say that i understand nothing about it .

I have an aug/1983 BJ42 with the orange light near the headlight switch ( so i think it's the super-glow system?). With a warm engine, i wait until the orange light is estinguished and then i start the engine . But when the engine is cold, i have to wait until the relay on the radiator is clicking. This can be 25 -30 sec when it is cold outside. The the truck starts immediately and runs smooth after a few seconds, even at -10°C outside. No smoke, perfect!

For me everything is ok like this, except the useless orange preheat light. What is it for? Why does it extinguish after 4 secs and then i have to wait anyway for 20 more seconds to start? I tried to cold-start when the orange light extinguishes but i couldn't start it. ... or that orange light only useful for starting a warm engine?

Thanks for replies.
Gilles

 

[lostmarbles]

Hi everybody,

I read a lot about the pre-heating systems, but i have to say that i understand nothing about it .

I have an aug/1983 BJ42 with the orange light near the headlight switch ( so i think it's the super-glow system?). With a warm engine, i wait until the orange light is estinguished and then i start the engine . But when the engine is cold, i have to wait until the relay on the radiator is clicking. This can be 25 -30 sec when it is cold outside. The the truck starts immediately and runs smooth after a few seconds, even at -10°C outside. No smoke, perfect!

For me everything is ok like this, except the useless orange preheat light. What is it for? Why does it extinguish after 4 secs and then i have to wait anyway for 20 more seconds to start? I tried to cold-start when the orange light extinguishes but i couldn't start it. ... or that orange light only useful for starting a warm engine?

Thanks for replies.
Gilles

The orange light is probably good just for Australia.

(I'm serious.... I suspect Australia was the biggest market for BJ42 landcruisers compared to anywhere else in the world so their warm conditions may have dominated in the design.)

 

[Gillinski]

Ok, that's very probable. I think that the orange light is not connected to the glow system. It extinguishes after 4-5 seconds, no matter how cold it is.

I think that the most reliable dash indicator for the preheat system is the one with the glow wire in the dash.

Is there a way to replace my orange light by a more reliable glow indicator light?

 

[markthemenace]

Maintenance

Has anyone thought about maintenance of the glow plug? What's that you say? Well, it my old Merc, it was recommended (don't know who) that the plugs be taken out once in a while (yearly?) and cleaned of the carbon and gunk that would accumulate.

There was also a too called a Reamer, that is used to, well, REAM the hole and clean it of the hardening carbon. I have done this preventative maintenance on my Merc using a large drill bit, liberally coated with grease, and have seen quite an accumulation of carbon come out every time. The carbon, if left in place, WILL harden over time. And then, like my buddy recently found out when he tried to remove a dead plug on his new-to-him VW Golf, the bugger breaks when you try to remove it...bringing with it a whole world of hurt to the home mechanic.

Now admittedly, taking out the GPs in an old 617 is no fun at all, due to the injector lines and its many sharp parts being just above where your hands would be, but in the cruiser, it appears not too inaccessible.

So....how many have done it? I'll be first to say, I haven't ....yet.

 

[lostmarbles]

Has anyone thought about maintenance of the glow plug? What's that you say? Well, it my old Merc, it was recommended (don't know who) that the plugs be taken out once in a while (yearly?) and cleaned of the carbon and gunk that would accumulate.

There was also a too called a Reamer, that is used to, well, REAM the hole and clean it of the hardening carbon. I have done this preventative maintenance on my Merc using a large drill bit, liberally coated with grease, and have seen quite an accumulation of carbon come out every time. The carbon, if left in place, WILL harden over time. And then, like my buddy recently found out when he tried to remove a dead plug on his new-to-him VW Golf, the bugger breaks when you try to remove it...bringing with it a whole world of hurt to the home mechanic.

Now admittedly, taking out the GPs in an old 617 is no fun at all, due to the injector lines and its many sharp parts being just above where your hands would be, but in the cruiser, it appears not too inaccessible.

So....how many have done it? I'll be first to say, I haven't ....yet.

Hi Mark.

Yearly plug maintenance won't become part of my regular maintenance on my diesel Landcruiser just because some other manufacturer recommended it at some time.

I'm old enough to recall that it was regular practice to remove heads and "decoke" (as it was called) petrol engines at just 10,000 miles on the clock. (1950s & 60s cars.) I think this was mainly due to poor engine design.

"Relapping the valves" was always part of this 10,000 mile work too because of the poor metallurgy (mainly relating to the valve seat material) back in those days.

Great advances have occured since then so that today's engines can often last the lifetime of the car with just fluid and filter changes alone. Heck... even wheel bearings can last 200,000+kms and have no detectable play after 10+ years of service on modern cars.

So what I'm saying is that some "good advice" can become obsolete simply due to advances in technology that occur over time. But there other reasons too (besides "age of engine") why advice for one engine cannot be automatically applied to another.

I have a lot of respect for Mercedes technology (even though they appear to be losing their lead over other manufacturers just as other German brands are too .... Such are the vagaries of the cycles that affect one country's manufacturing superiority over others). But if they make their glowplugs so hard to access on an old 617 ... then that's certainly not representative of a "good design feature".

And I once watched a mate attempt to remove a spark plug from an engine after he told me that he'd managed to break every single one he'd removed thus far into his "engine revitalisation work". And sure enough, he broke that plug in half too during his demonstration to me. (I simply concluded that some people should never be allowed to own any tools because his technique of using a ratchet, socket and extension was sooooooo extremely clumsy.)

Just replacing glow plugs at regular intervals such as every decade, every 50,000kms, or whatever .. would be far better in my view and would still be going beyond what Toyota literature says because AFAIK they only advise replacement in the case of failure (when they advise replacing them all as a matched set).

Unless something's wrong with your Toyota engine or you're using odd fuel, I don't think regular decoking of any component should be necessary (despite the fact that I've heard people complain that carbon build-up can cause excessive compression figures on our engines).

Just my 2c.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

I watched this thread as it developed and knew I might need it eventually. Like yesterday. I did a glow cycle and started my 24 Volt 1981 BJ42 while showing a co-worker all the awesome-ness and then shut her down. Un-noticed by me, the glow relay stuck on and continued to warm the engine for about an hour and a half until I tried to go out for lunch. When I jumped into the rig there was a mild "hot" smell in the cab and I saw immediately the glow controller was lit. I realized that having been on for so long any damage was already done. My first thought was the dash switch so I yanked that out to no effect. Not knowing which relay was the glow circuit I just started unplugging everything, still with no results. The glow controller remained a brilliant incandecent orange. Quite pretty actually. I gave up and pulled the battery cable off before searching MUD to locate the relay. In my panic I had missed it behind the heater ductwork. I re-connected the battery and the glow circuit was still energized. I then whacked the relay with my flashlight and it finally de-energized the circuit.

I should have pulled the glow plugs out and inspected but instead started the engine with no noticeable ill effects. After work I tried a glow cycle and although it was slower (low battery?) it did glow. Later that evening, when leaving the pub, there was no go on the glow. Luckily it was a mild 0* C, it started and got me home where I promptly dis-connected the battery.

I just ordered the correct replacement plugs as per this thread and will attempt a refirb on the relay this weekend.

 

[lostmarbles]

I watched this thread as it developed and knew I might need it eventually. Like yesterday. I did a glow cycle and started my 24 Volt 1981 BJ42 while showing a co-worker all the awesome-ness and then shut her down. Un-noticed by me, the glow relay stuck on and continued to warm the engine for about an hour and a half until I tried to go out for lunch. When I jumped into the rig there was a mild "hot" smell in the cab and I saw immediately the glow controller was lit. I realized that having been on for so long any damage was already done. My first thought was the dash switch so I yanked that out to no effect. Not knowing which relay was the glow circuit I just started unplugging everything, still with no results. The glow controller remained a brilliant incandecent orange. Quite pretty actually. I gave up and pulled the battery cable off before searching MUD to locate the relay. In my panic I had missed it behind the heater ductwork. I re-connected the battery and the glow circuit was still energized. I then whacked the relay with my flashlight and it finally de-energized the circuit.

I should have pulled the glow plugs out and inspected but instead started the engine with no noticeable ill effects. After work I tried a glow cycle and although it was slower (low battery?) it did glow. Later that evening, when leaving the pub, there was no go on the glow. Luckily it was a mild 0* C, it started and got me home where I promptly dis-connected the battery.

I just ordered the correct replacement plugs as per this thread and will attempt a refirb on the relay this weekend.

Did it always take around 15-20 seconds to get your glow controller glowing (prior to this relay-sticking event)?

I'm thinking that if it were to have been significantly shorter than that ... someone could have mistakenly fitted lower voltage plugs (to cause excessive current draw that could perhaps have been responsible for welding the relay contacts together).

It might pay to check that the old plugs were the correct 20.5V spec anyway.

I hope the cause of your "no glow" isn't that your glow controller oil has disintergrated from its long period of glowing too.

Incidentally Toyota obviously expect damage could be caused from an excessive glow cycle because this is what they say in a 1981 USA-Canada owners manual:


I certainly hope it turns out to be an easy fix (like simply replacing the glow plugs and fixing/replacing the relay).

 

[Awl_TEQ]

The controller would lite up slowly over maybe ten to fifteen seconds before being "brite". It was slower with the old batteries and noticeable quicker when the new batteries were fitted.

I'm expecting a call any time that the plugs have arrived at the courier depot. Headed out to the garage now to disassemble.

 

[lostmarbles]

The controller would lite up slowly over maybe ten to fifteen seconds before being "brite". It was slower with the old batteries and noticeable quicker when the new batteries were fitted.

I'm expecting a call any time that the plugs have arrived at the courier depot. Headed out to the garage now to disassemble.

That sounds normal then (with your old plugs indeed likely to be of the correct spec).

So your relay has probably just been jealously watching the great restoration work you've been doing and decided to show you it wants some of it up close and personal.

 

[Yellow70]

Hey Guys, my car has recently been blowing white smoke in the morning have done the injectors and changed the glow plugs but not sure if there the right ones here they are ( http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Glow-Plu...ries&hash=item35ba98510d&_uhb=1#ht_1021wt_986 )
wondering if anyone know what system the Toyota Bundera LJ70rv 86 runs and are these the right glow plugs and how i can fix this

Thanks Luke

 

[bj40green]

My EPC shows:
2L engine: 19850-54050 12V system / 7V glow plug
2LT engine: 19850-54071 12V system / 6V glow plug

The Ebay seller sells the 6V type so if your truck is a 2LT you're fine.

Rudi

 

[FJ601986]

I have a Pre Heat Timer 28521-68040. Which I believe is a Super Glow, can anyone confirm this? If it is super glow am I correct in thinking that the right glow plugs are 19850-68050 (51)? This is all going to be running on a 2H.
Thanks
Joe G

 

[bj40green]

I have a Pre Heat Timer 28521-68040. Which I believe is a Super Glow, can anyone confirm this? If it is super glow am I correct in thinking that the right glow plugs are 19850-68050 (51)? This is all going to be running on a 2H.
Thanks
Joe G

Hi Joe,

If your Timer looks like this,

Then YES it's a super glow timer, preheating for 2H engines used in HJ60 and HJ75
And YES you have the right 6V glow plugs.

Rudi

 

[FJ601986]

Rudi

So close? Number 12 shows in my book. I still think its super glow..
Joe

 

[bj40green]

Rudi

So close? Number 12 shows in my book. I still think its super glow..
Joe

The 12V in your pic means 12V system.
Your glow plugs are 6V due to the timer, current sensor and resistor combination.
I've send you an email with this pic in its original format. This forum downsizes this pic so it's almost unreadable.
If somebody is interested.... you can download it here: -► https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwGk8zcL34N4TGVzVnlBMU9yQ1E/edit?usp=sharing


Rudi

 

[lostmarbles]

The 12V in your pic means 12V system.
Your glow plugs are 6V due to the timer, current sensor and resistor combination.
I've send you an email with this pic in its original format. This forum downsizes this pic so it's almost unreadable.
If somebody is interested.... you can download it here: -► https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwGk8zcL34N4TGVzVnlBMU9yQ1E/edit?usp=sharing
View attachment 748915

Rudi

I think I've gotten over my temporary ih8mud-login troubles Rudi... (as you can see from my post here)..

And I think the "12" referred to is in fact the pin on the connector. (In your image it appears it isn't used?)

 

[bj40green]

Tom, I'm a bit confused about pin12 or 12V or.......... what?
I'm also confused because he asks is it a super glow?
I reply; Yes it's from a super glow.
He responds; I still think it's a super glow.
I also have the impression that he doesn't believe that 6V plugs are used in a super glow system
Anyway, He (FJ601986) started a new thread with the same question.
See here: -► https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/728701-super-glow.html

I'll follow from there,

Rudi

 

[lostmarbles]

Tom, I'm a bit confused about pin12 or 12V or.......... what?
I'm also confused because he asks is it a super glow?
I reply; Yes it's from a super glow.
He responds; I still think it's a super glow.
I also have the impression that he doesn't believe that 6V plugs are used in a super glow system
Anyway, He (FJ601986) started a new thread with the same question.
See here: -► https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/728701-super-glow.html

I'll follow from there,

Rudi

FJ601986 isn't alone in having trouble working out whether their cruiser's preheat system is "fixed delay" or "superglow". (However I'm not aware of anyone having trouble determining whether they have "manual glow with glow controller preheat" and I guess this is because the presence or absence of a glow controller on the dashboard generally makes that determination easy.)

So it looks like there is a shortcoming in this thread that we need to address.