Which plugs should I be running - B, 2B, 3B, H and 2H diesels (1 Viewer)

[watrob]

Hi Rudi,

Need to understand a few wiring details, first, the photo below relates to a super glow system on a 2H, the square glow plug relay on the left is classified as relay No.2 on the circuit and the round glow relay on the right is classified as relay No.1, is this correct? or is it the other way round?

This photo is the circuit of a glow plug system on a 2H.

and finally of these two relays which one connects to the back of the buzz bar (not onto the resistors)? is it relay No.1

 

[brownbear]

I've stuck this one to the top of the forum. Thank you for your hard work! I thought this is one that should be found easier for the people who need. Later I can put it in the FAQ.

 

[watrob]

Hi Rudi, can you help with the above post regarding the Glow Plug Relay's?

 

[bj40green]

The round one is the Main Glow Relay (#1)
The square one is the Sub Glow Relay (#2)
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_G_1984_TOYOTA_LAND+CRUISER_HJ60LG-K_8401.3.html?hl=28610

I did a little editing in your diagram.

The wires from the Glow Plug Current Sensor to the connector are Fusible Link wires.
The wiring diagram shows 1 Glow Plug Resistor but that's because that was the situation before 82/01.
After 82/01 it's 2 resistors in parallel like yours.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

OK, thanks Rudi, now this is what I plan to do to convert the super glow 2H system to a 12Ht. First off the round main glow relay no.1 (pre glow) is the same as that used in the 60 series 12ht (or close enough to work), and the square glow relay #2 is the after glow - see 60 series circuit below, but this circuit below is for a 2H as the No.2 Relay in a 12Ht is round and has the same part number as Relay No.1.

Next I connect the green fusible 0.5 link from the heat screen to pin 6 of the Pre Heat Timer (see 2H circuit below & 12HT Circuit) all the other pins connect the same for both the timers of the 2H & 12HT. (Except the 2H timer has a pin 12) ( disregard the Momentary Switch in red, it does not form part of this conversion) Rudi you are right in that the 2H Pre Heat timer is different to a 12HT one. The wiring is the same so the HJ47 loom can be used but a 12Ht Pre Heat Timer is required

The photo below is the green 0.5 FL from the heat screen connects to pin 6, The other wire marked looks like another FL but I have any idea what it connects back too., I have been told it forms part on the glow plug system but cannot confirm this.?????????????????

Ok, I found/solved where these two wires go, the fusible link 0.5 green wire goes in pin 6 of the 12HT Pre Heat Timer and the other wire is a earth for the Water Temp Sensor which goes back to pin 10 of the 12HT pre Heat Timer.

In the 12ht circuit (12volt) there is only one heat screen (photo above is of a 24volt dual heat screen), but on the 12HT (12volt) circuit both glow plug relays 1 & 2 connect directly to the one terminal on the 12 volt system, see circuit.

 

[bj40green]

I was afraid that this was your plan. I think it's not going to work because there is a significant difference between a glow plug timer an a glow screen timer but maybe I'm wrong.
As I told you before.... pins 6 & 12 on a glow plug timer measure a voltage difference.
The pin 6 on a glow screen timer measures a yes/no level.

I wish you luck.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

Well I have been doing a lot of reading, first off 60 series 2H that have (same for HJ47) a Main & Sub glow plug relays are all Super Glow system for a 2H diesel engine.

Hj47 2H a Pre Heating Timer 28521-68030 and a Main Glow Plug relay 28610-54080 & a sub glow relay 28610-54090

Early 60 series 2h Pre Heating timer 28521-68040 (you can use the 68030) and a Main Glow Plug relay 28610-54060 (could use a 54080) and a sub glow relay 28610-54090.

The later 60 series 2H Pre Heating timer 28521-68042 & 68130 and a Main Glow Plug relay 28610-54100 (could use a 54080) and a sub glow relay 28610-54090.


Now the early 60 series 12Ht, Pre Heating Timer is a 28521-68070, they use 2 Main Glow Plug relays (no sub relays) 28610-57060

Later 12Ht models, Pre Heating Timer is a 28521-68070, they use 2 Main Glow Plug relays (no sub relays) 28610-57100 (could use 57060)

60 series 12ht 24v, Pre Heating Timer is a 28521-68060, they use 2 Main Glow Plug relays (no sub relays) 28610-57050



So I need to get hold of a Pre Heat Timer (12HT) 28521-68070 (this timer does not have a pin 12) and 2 Main Glow Plug Relays 28610-57060 or 57100, I think I could probably use 54060 or 54080 main glow plug relays (these are round also) but I think the difference is simply in the plug connections which suite the super glow wiring system and are wired back to the Pre Heat Timer to the same pin connections (they are really just simple starter motor relays).

If this is the case then I just need a 12Ht Pre Heat Timer 28521-68070

PS. I have managed to get a 12HT Pre Heating Timer and two 12HT Main Glow Plug Relays, they will arrive on Friday, I will then be able to see what the differences are between their counterparts?

Rudi, I am having trouble tracing that brown wire with the blue stripe, would you have any idea what's it for?

 

[watrob]

Hi Rudi,

Have been trying to find a schematic of the pin outs of a 28521-68030, you wouldn't have one?

 

[bj40green]

This is the only picture I have. It's used with L engines for the European Market.

The number 28521-68030 tells me that it was used in HJ60 and HJ47 models (2H engines) Australian Market but the FSM shows not this model timer with the extra cable so..... I wish you luck.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

Thanks Rudi, your above image (attached) relates to this wiring diagram.

View attachment 920324

and this is the same pre-heat controller in a super glow for a HJ47

 

[watrob]

Right, this is my current plug pin out.

View attachment 920328

and this is the 12ht pin out.

So I have gotten hold of a larger plug to suit the 12ht pre-heat timer and will re-wired my wires to the new plug.

HJ47 Pin 1 Y/W (Water Temp Sensor) becomes 12HT Pin 7
Pin 2 B/R (Glow Plug Relay No.1) becomes Pin 1
Pin 3 B (FL 0.5Green Wire) becomes Pin 6 (I could also use my pin 9 wire as its spare also)
Pin 4 Y (Regulator Term L) becomes Pin 9
Pin 5 W/B (Earth side of Temp Sensor)) becomes Pin 10
Pin 6 B/Y (Fuse - Ignition Switch/Start Relay) becomes Pin 4
Pin 7 R/B (Glow Indicator Light) becomes Pin 3
Pin 8 B/R (Glow Plug Relay No.2) becomes pin 5
Pin 9 ( Spare) Spare
Pin 10 B/W (To Ignition Switch) becomes Pin 11

Rudi, when you get a moment could check my new pin out to see if they are correct?

 

[watrob]

Also I found out what the Brown wire with the Blue bands is for, its the earth side of the water temp sensor going back to the Pre-Heat Timer pin 10 on the 12HT (on the HJ47 timer the wire is a white with black stripe going to pin 5.

 

[watrob]

The 2 glow plug relays 28610-57060 for the 12HT arrived, placed beside the HJ47, (one on the left) the only difference is the angle of the brackets.

The Pre Heat Timer 28521-68070 also arrived, although it has a larger plug the pin connection terminals are the same size so I will be able to just re-install my wires from the HJ47 wiring loom directly into this plug using the new pin outs from the above earlier post.

 

[watrob]

Re-wired the second 12ht Glow Plug Relay so it plugs into my existing wiring harness. The 12ht uses two main Glow Plug Relays whereas the second relay for a 2H used a sub relay (square).

 

[watrob]

Having solved the Pre Heat Timer conversion from a 2H to a 12HT as above, I have now turned my attention to Fuel Control Relay (FCR). I have install the Oil Pressure Sensor Switch from the 2H into the 12HT engine block as the hole is in the engine block to accepts it (just remove the bung).

The FCR from the 2H has 4 wires going the Edic Motor (FCM), which a 12HT does not use, it uses a electric vacuum switch valve (VSV), which causes the vacuum actuator to close a butterfly in the inlet manifold which stops the engine when the ignition key is turned off.

So my aim is to work out a combination of these 4 wires that will activate the VSV to allow the VSV to work correctly - in allowing the engine to start & stop.

The 4 wires are:-

Blue M (motor) +
Green D (Drive - run)
Yellow O.I (over-inject - adds extra diesel fuel on start up)
Red S (stop)


FCR & FCM CONNECTIONS

VSV & VACUUM ACTUATOR

 

[watrob]

This is the circuit of the FCR which shows the 4 wires going to the Edic Motor (FCM), I just need to re configure this wiring to the VSV.

On my ignition switch I have LOCK, ACC, ON, START.

With the 2H when I turn the ignition key to "ON" (IG) it gives power to the edic motor and moves it into the D position (run/drive), when I turn the key "START" (ST) it moves the edic motor into Over-inject position (I.0), once started it returns the edic motor back to the D position (run/drive), when I turn the key to ACC (OFF) it tells the edic motor to go to S (Stop).

So when I turn the ignition to "ON" I need to have 12volts to the VSV, when I turn the key to "START" 12volts must remain on, when I turn the key back ACC (OFF) 12volts needs to be turned off to the VSV so the engine stops.

 

[watrob]

Rudi, as I read this circuit "M" is part of the earth to the oil pressure switch & the Edic Motor which grounds it during the "START" position until such time the oil pressure comes up, is this correct?

 

[bj40green]

I don't have a 12HT wiring diagram but why don't you copy the electrical stuff from a 12HT diagram?
As far as I understand it, you need +12V on the VSV in the run and start position. You can run a wire from your IGN switch. I have no idea if there is a form of "no oil pressure" detection and action in a 12HT set up.

The OPS (Oil Pressure Switch) is delayed by the first capacitor (the one on the left) in the diagram.
The EDIC is a very early form of a computer with OR situations.
The motor M is controlled by the bottom right relay.
This relay is controlled by the other 2 relays.
This whole circuit is YES/NO controlled (delayed on start up) by the OPS.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

I don't have a 12HT wiring diagram but why don't you copy the electrical stuff from a 12HT diagram?
As far as I understand it, you need +12V on the VSV in the run and start position. You can run a wire from your IGN switch. I have no idea if there is a form of "no oil pressure" detection and action in a 12HT set up.

The OPS (Oil Pressure Switch) is delayed by the first capacitor (the one on the left) in the diagram.
The EDIC is a very early form of a computer with OR situations.
The motor M is controlled by the bottom right relay.
This relay is controlled by the other 2 relays.
This whole circuit is YES/NO controlled (delayed on start up) by the OPS.

Rudi

Hi Rudi,

I am running a HJ47 1983 model super glow wiring loom. I have shorted using the current wires with 2 12ht glow plug relays and the 12ht Pre Heat Timer.

I have installed the low pressure oil switch into the 12HT engine so every thing will work with the HJ47 FCR except of coarse the 4 wires going to the FCM (edic) is not on a 12HT engine.

I am trying to understand these 4 wires. "M" acts as power circuit but terminates to earth if the low oil pressure switch does open within so many seconds. I thought I read some where that connecting "M" to the VSV and a earth wire, combining the (joining) the "Y" & "R" together you can create power running onto the VSV on turning the ignition to "ON".

I believe "B" supplies power to the FCR via a FL from the battery all the time whether the ignition is turned on or not.

I am trying to incorporate the low pressure oil sensor into the system as protection which should the oil pressure not come up stops the 12volt feed to the VSV.

Your electrical wizardry skills would be greatfully appreciated.

 

[bj40green]

"M" has nothing to do with the OPS. When the power stops to the coil of the bottom right relay, the relay falls back to the rest position causing a short over the EDIC motor. This is done to let the motor stop immediately ( same principle as the wiper motor). In other words there is no run out or after run on the motor.

Connect OI and D together to one terminal on the VSV and ground to the other and it should work.
BUT........ when the center relay (in the diagram) falls back from "OI (start)" to "D (run)" (the left relay is in the D position) there will be a fraction of a second no power to the VSV. Try it.

That round thing with 4 wires is the position sensor and stops the power to the motor when a position is reached.

Rudi