Which batteries should I get for a for a 24v system? (1 Viewer)

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Here is the results from my lunch time testing.

1. First thing I did was look for a multimeter. I still have not replaced mine since my BJ60 was stolen 1 year ago.... Bad, I know. I looked for my room mates but could not find it.

2. I switched the converter to straight convert mode. Tried to arm the alarm. I could not.

3. I opened up the solar converter. The 25amp fuse was blown. I replaced it.

4. Pop the battery tops. Fluid levels are good. They could use a bit more, but all the plates are submerged. However there is some white on them.

5. Tried to start the truck now that is warmer out. No luck.

6. Tried to take all the terminals off to clean them. No go. They are very tight and even with a loose nut don't want to come off. I don't have time to finish this, and they looked good, so I leave them. I will come back and do this later.

7. Tried to jump the low side battery from a extra full battery of my room mates. He had just pulled it out of a suzuki. No go.

8. I noticed that my fuse blew in the solar converter. I was not sure how. So I put another in and watch it. I switched between balance & convert mode. It does not blow. I try using 12v accessories in balance mode, and its still good. And I try in straight mode and its good. If I try to start it blows (in balance mode I believe. I never tried straight convert mode). Did it blow because the difference in the two batteries is to great when trying to start?

8. I put another fuse back in, and left it in balance mode. I am not sure of the volt difference between the 2, but I am hoping that in balance mode it will equalize both. The trucks volt meter shows around 22-23v (between the 2) after it sits for awhile and are warmer. I am crossing my fingers that I can start it tonight after the converter equalizes both batteries.


So my questions are:
1. What is the correct order for disconnect 2 12v batteries in series?
Then I can charge each seperatly if needed. Or if I ever need to swap, or for any other reason I need to disconnect something.

2. (Stone might be the only one that can answer this) What is the correct disconnect order for a solar converter. I notice there is quick disconnects on everything.

3. It looks like the issue was caused when the fuse blew in the solar converter. Problem is I have no way of knowing the fuse blew until my truck will not start. I like the idea of running balance mode. I think this would give the truck a longer battery life. Is this true? Or should I run it straight convert mode after a week (so I can give the converter a chance to equalize my batteries)? What is better? Convert or balance mode?

Sorry for so many questions.

Thank you everyone for your help,
Cheers,
Nick
 
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frame/body ground first. Then Positive to truck. Then the negative in the middle of the batteries, then the positive.

Think of the two batteries that are in series as one battery. Always disconnect the negative first to the frame. Then the one that supplies the truck with pos.
 
Nick

Hook up and disconnect for the converter:

Ground = Black wire.
24V = Red wire.
12V = White wire.

a) Connect = ground 1st, then 24V then 12V
b) Disconnect = 12V, then 24V, then ground.

1) Do not leave the converter in load balance in winter when the truck is not running, or in load balance when not being used for a number of days any time of the year. The converter in load balance mode will sense battery health differences, and run down the good battery trying to maintain the poorer one. The colder the weather, the more the batteries are stressed, and the quicker this issue becomes apparent.

2) You MUST disconnect and connect the converter in the correct sequence or it will pop a fuse to protect itself.

3) You MUST take the converter out of the system before you take off the battery ground. Leave the converter in the system, and take off the neutral to frame connection and the converter WILL pop a fuse to self protect.

4) If your batteries are really imbalanced, you WILL pop a fuse when you try and put the converter in the system. The batteries must be fully charged and comparable health to start.

I have found the best system is to wire the converter to go into balance mode when the truck is running. This is managed through a HD relay, switched with ignition. This way the truck is in strict convert mode when sitting, you can use the alarm and the batteries will funtion as they normally would. When running and in load balance mode, the balance feature will look after any anomalies within the batteries, and allow temporary high draw loads off one battery when needed. I think I am coming up to a year now with this set-up, and all seems well.

I am with Brad. I had some red tops in my BJ74 and they were not happy at all. This was before I wired the truck to go to load balance automatically when running. They were happy in my BJ60 (12V parallel) for a while...then finally gave up the ghost. They were not that old, however were part of a blowout deal for seconds...so done deal. Petra had some yellow tops in her HJ61 and they would show over 1.5V difference when running (and no taps). Put some conventionals in and all was fine. I've the yellow tops in the BJ74 now (as mentioned...goes to load balance when running and strict convert when off) and the converter has been looking after this anomoly so far.

Hook up and disconnect for the batteries:

Like brownbear said...

hth's

gb
 
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Ah ha!

nickw said:
2. I switched the converter to straight convert mode. Tried to arm the alarm. I could not.

3. I opened up the solar converter. The 25amp fuse was blown. I replaced it.

Cheers,
Nick
Click to expand...

Suspicions confirmed...Nick, something must have had to happen to cause that fuse to blow. And for the symptoms of a bad low side battery to have shown up now, means that the fuse probably blew a few days or more ago. Disconnecting any of the battery cables before disconnecting the Solar Converter in the proper sequence will cause that fuse to pop.

I stand by the Interstate Workaholics that are in that BJ74. They have been there for years and have worked flawlessly with the Solar Converter until this incident, which obviously wasn't the battery's fault. They are heavy duty with thicker plates, are a nice fit in the Group 27 size, and the whole time that I owned the truck they didn't change a millivolt since they were brand new.

You've got to thoroughly familiarize yourself with the 24V system if you are going to own a truck like a BJ74. Once you wrap your mind around it, 24V is really not complicated, and the higher voltage has advantages that 12V doesn't offer...namely electrical components last longer.

I'm not sure what kind of condition those batteries are now that they have been through this type of torture. If the low side battery is heavily sulphated (and it could well be), it will never hold a charge no matter how much the Solar Converter tries to equalize it. You'll just burn out your converter. If I still owned that truck, I would personally get another two fresh batteries and start from scratch. I'm not a fan of the Optima batteries either...their extra cost don't seem to be justified by their performance that I've witnessed. Heck, you can go to Costco and pick up a couple of Group 27 deep cycle lead-acid batteries for a fraction of what two Red Tops will cost you. But that's just a personal opinion...I'm definitely not trying to tell you what to do.
 
I've had good luck with toyota brand batteries too. And they are not that expensive. \

Nick, I don't know if you have ever had any formal electrical training or not, but I did DC and AC in aviation school, its pretty basic stuff. I bet if you read DC theory in a small book from the library you would be a super wiz.

You learn about series/parallel... resistors, diodes.. all that good stuff. I think it's worth it for anybody who likes to wrench on there cars to read.

But then I like dry reads :)
 
Thanks guys.

I am a bit of a computer geek. I was never huge into electronics, but I am able to learn. I am starting to wrap my head around the 24v system. Thanks for all the help and putting up with me.

Tonight I pulled the batteries.
Cleaned the terminals and reinstalled (the converter never blew a fuse. Thank you Greg for the order of things). Tried and still no power. I wanted to eliminate possible dirty terminals. Charles has much wisdom, and I wanted to try, seeing as it has caused the same problem for him.

Anyways, still no go.
Both are sitting around 10-11 volts, but have no amps left in them.
I did not have a digital multimeter. I think someone friend it.
All I could find was an older analog one. Anyways, I had let the truck sit in balance mode all afternoon with a fresh fuse, so both are balanced.

I topped up each battery with distilled water, and them on charge about 4 horus ago. They both look the same inside and not that bad. They show there age, but none looks really bad. So I started charging them.
The are hooked together in parralel, and are charging.
I will try both tomorrow morning.

We will see how they do. I would rather not replace them.
I don't want to spend anymore money right now.

Thanks for everyones help.
Good night,
Nick
 
BB, I looked into the oddysey batteries.
The look interesting. I think I would like to try some.
Only thing holding me back is dealer networks.
There is not much. if I drop a battery, I am out of luck.
I may still go this route if I need some.
How is the prices on them?

I still think Red top's pretty good. Me and my friends have had amazing luck with them. 6 years and running on some, and they have been abused.
On offroad trucks, The sit for 3 weeks sometimes, they we go out and beat them in the offroad. Then winch for 15 minutes, and then more beating. year in and year out. I have grown to love these batteries. I hear horror stories, but personally I have not seen anything but great performance. Ask Charles, my friends USE there suzuki's. They are not pavment princesses.

Another benifit to Red Tops are, the warranty and dealer network. And I hear Wal-mart offers a 10 year optional. Which would be nice. I just hate shopping at wal-mart, but the warranty and network would be great. Even if I only get the 3 year standard, there is still the great network. I might go this route too. But I am still hoping the interstates work out.

Cheers,
Nick
 
nickw said:
Cleaned the terminals and reinstalled (the converter never blew a fuse. Thank you Greg for the order of things). Tried and still no power.Nick
Click to expand...

No worries.

1) Do not leave the truck in load balance till you get this figured out. It gains you nothing. If one battery has pooched itself, it will draw down the other...even over 4 hours. Then both will be below the voltage needed to start.

2) Take both batteries out, charge them.

3) Take both batteries to someone (Cdn Tire will load test them for free I believe) and have each load tested.

4) Why not try yellow tops if you want to go AGM...

5) Get a new voltmeter, toss it in the truck. Cdn Tire had them on sale all the time. At least you will be able to check each battery, and also trouble shoot issues if/when they arise...and you will know which battery to hook up cables too.

hth's

gb
 
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FWIW, I would also recommend a good charger. Some of the new chargers have microprocessors that go phase charge the batteries. I've brought batteries back from the near dead with my C-tire one I bought a few years ago. If you but AGM batteries, you will need one anyways, as they charge differently.

I wealth of information at www.batteryfaq.org

Mike
 
Hey guys,

Charged the batteries, and put them back in last night.
Truck starts great now. I was not able to have them load tested.

I have the converter running in straight convert mode.
So if either battery starts to go south, I will know its the battery.

Cheers,
Nick
 
nickw said:
I have the converter running in straight convert mode.
So if either battery starts to go south, I will know its the battery.Cheers,Nick
Click to expand...

Great!

And more importantly...which battery!

gb
 
Stone said:
Just came back from Princess Auto. They have a battery load tester for $25...surely that's worth it to have a commercialy made unit ready to use? :)
Click to expand...

25 bucks is pretty cheap for a tool. I wish I had a princess auto closer than 4hrs away....

When I go there I am like a kid in a candy store. SOO much cool stuff.
 
Nick:

Another preventative thing that you can also do that the old school 24V guys do is to rotate the batteries once in a while. This is not totally necessary when you have a load balancer, but is just another preventative measure that may make your batteries last a lot longer.

Also, once in a while, when your truck is not running and there's no 12V accessories on, check the individual voltages of your batteries. If they are not within a couple of milivolts of each other, you can open up the front panel of your Solar Converter and using a precision screwdriver, rotate the screw on the variable resistor while keeping an eye on your voltmeter until the low battery reading catches up to the higher one. The newer Solar Converter has a red LED that lights up when the two batteries are greater than 5% from each other, but your older model doesn't have this feature. Still, in the three years that I've had it I haven't had to adjust the settings much.

Good luck.
 
Stone said:
Nick:

Another preventative thing that you can also do that the old school 24V guys do is to rotate the batteries once in a while. This is not totally necessary when you have a load balancer, but is just another preventative measure that may make your batteries last a lot longer.

Also, once in a while, when your truck is not running and there's no 12V accessories on, check the individual voltages of your batteries. If they are not within a couple of milivolts of each other, you can open up the front panel of your Solar Converter and using a precision screwdriver, rotate the screw on the variable resistor while keeping an eye on your voltmeter until the low battery reading catches up to the higher one. The newer Solar Converter has a red LED that lights up when the two batteries are greater than 5% from each other, but your older model doesn't have this feature. Still, in the three years that I've had it I haven't had to adjust the settings much.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Stone.
That is good to know.
I am pretty sure I put the batteries opposite to how I had them before (on purpose :) ) .

I am guessing I only need to adjust the screw when I am in straight convert more.

Anyways, I think the batteries are good. Problem was the fuse going in the solar converter just like you thought. Oh well, now I know. I think I will run straight convert mode for the next month of so. Then if all is well I will switch back to balanced and watch carefully.

Cheers,
Nick
 
nickw said:
I am guessing I only need to adjust the screw when I am in straight convert more.Cheers,Nick
Click to expand...

The adjustment POT effects total output of the white (12V) line. The white line loops around and goes into the lowside battery positive pole, so in effect will adjust the load balance system when in load balance mode.

Set to 1/2 the actual total voltage of your system.

hth's

gb
 
Greg_B said:
I had some red tops in my BJ74 and they were not happy at all. This was before I wired the truck to go to load balance automatically when running. They were happy in my BJ60 (12V parallel) for a while...then finally gave up the ghost. They were not that old, however were part of a blowout deal for seconds...so done deal. gb
Click to expand...

Interesting - I didn't know your red tops croaked. Must be a 24V thing - I got mine at the same time from the same batch of blems and they are still working great in my 12V 70. My BIL and another buddy also got 1 each at the same time and both of them are still working fine as well, also in 12V situations...
 
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