wheel bearings: Timken/Koyo vs SKF/BCA/Beck etc? (1 Viewer)

[TomH]

I called the local Autozone and talked to one of their, uhhhh, parts professionals. Lets just say he wasn't able to help me. So, I call the local bearing company - US Bearings - and got the following prices:

Koyo
LM102949 - $9.14
LM102910 - $4.34
TR0305A - $14.16
Bower
JLM104948 - $12.41
JLM104910 - $5.46

They also charged me $12 shipping since they don't normally stock the trunion bearings. I bought front and rear.

Now, I'm going to have to feed some dogs so I can get the rest of the parts I need for the birfield and rear axle service.

Tom

 

[e9999]

More confusion and perhaps some progress on the LM vs JLM front...:


OK, here is the latest. I went to the Timken and Koyo catalogs to try and figure this out.

Timken
-------
In their application catalog, they list the JLM104948 and JLM104910 for the LC inner.
Also their "set47" for the outer. There was no individual component number that I could see, but word on the list is that these are LM102949 and LM102910.
Unfortunately, there was no dimension spec listed.
This listing does suggest that the LMetc bearing is OK to use, but not a definitive answer.


Koyo
----
This is interesting. Get this: in their *inch* series they list the JLM104948 and JLM104910. But these are called "special tolerance" metric bearings (the "J" prefix). Indeed they appear to be a true metric bearing (but part of the inch series), with the inner bore specd at 50.000 mm. So far so good. No surprise that they use a metric bearing in the LC, right?

Now, they also have a LM102948 and LM102910. Also in their inch series. But get this, this appears to be a true inch bearing. The bore is 45.242mm (= 1.7812 in or 1 25/32"). Amazingly, there is no equivalent metric bearing anywhere close in dimension that I could find. This suggests that the LMetc bearing in set 47 is indeed the most correct to use.


Barring a direct examination of an OEM bearing number counterindicating all of this (please check somebody), it does look like the LM bearing is OK to use despite its inch nature.


So, amazingly, it appears then that the TLC designers put both a metric and an inch bearing on the same spindle!!! How about that!

HTH
Eric

 

[landtoy80]

<So, amazingly, it appears then that the TLC designers put both a metric and an inch bearing on the same spindle!!! How about that!>

Eric, I think you need to take those kids to the theme park and get some excitment in your life

 

[e9999]

:whoops:
right you are!
E

 

[scottm]

Good shopping Tom, I checked a few bearing suppliers and got roughly those prices. My usual supplier was a few bucks cheaper on each with my discount. Cheapest non-discount quote I got was BDI-USA, I think these were Timken:

JLM104948 $9.88
JLM104910 $4.35
LM102949 $7.28
LM102910 $3.45

The numbers on my Koyo trunnion bearings are 30304AJR-2-N (bearing) and 30304AJ (race). BDI came up with 30304 92kal for the Koyo set, sold by Timken, $10.11

There may have been a discount in there.

Odd thing, I found Timken to be consistently more $ than Koyo. When asked, the BDI rep wrote "Timken is considered the leader in quality in tapered roller bearings." I still like the Autozone approach, but on all four this'd save me enough to take my family out to dinner or fill up my tank with change. I much prefer shopping local or with a very helpful supplier like Slee or Cdan, especially when I really don't know what I'm doing.

 

[landtoy80]

So whats verdick?
AutoZtone Timken
Marlin KYo"s
or Cdan either or?

 

[e9999]

So whats verdick?
AutoZtone Timken
Marlin KYo"s
or Cdan either or?

well, since Dan is a great guy, buy everything from him! What else?

Just for your own edification, or if you have already fed his dogs so much that he asked you to buy elsewhere for a while, or if he is on vacation, then read the above carefully and draw your own conclusions...

E

 

[landtoy80]

As AutoZtone is not close I will pass on them.
Marlin is an advertizer on this board, I would like to share the wealth with all that make this board great or at least pay for it.

As I only need one side of bearings, the small order with dan may not be worth the time, plus every time I call him I end up buying many more parts that I had planned on.

I call and order one side of wheel bearings. Then I need seals, brake pads, and other parts to fill my parts bin... I then have a bill to pay and parts to replace.
If I just get the wheel bearings I will not have as much work to do and not spend as much $$$

 

[cruiserdan]

Um,

Did you want Fries with that?

 

[lurker]

This seems to be a great thread, but what are the final part numbers, prices, and where to get them?

Am I too early to the party?

 

[Riley]

snip...

As I only need one side of bearings, the small order with dan may not be worth the time, plus every time I call him I end up buying many more parts that I had planned on.

I call and order one side of wheel bearings. Then I need seals, brake pads, and other parts to fill my parts bin... I then have a bill to pay and parts to replace.
If I just get the wheel bearings I will not have as much work to do and not spend as much $$$

I know what you mean Kurt. It's sort of like going to Costco. You need a bundle of shop towels and some cans of soup and you end up with a $450 bill. "Gee I got Dan on the phone and the prices are soooo good, I might as well get projects for the next few months".

I guess there goes my S.S. discount for exposing the plot. :whoops:

I still gotta replace those rear axle seals I bought 5 months ago.

oh and then there's the second battery tray but for that I'll need the washer bottle relocator bracket from Slee but if I call Slee, I'll want to buy a bunch of other stuff like tyre deflators and on board air.

 

[e9999]

OK, since I started this whole thing, I should perhaps volunteer to summarize my impressions. (I can't bring myself to reread this whole thread so I'm going by memory, including prices -correct me if way off.) I will list the alternatives in descending order of desirability, regardless of price. You decide where your price comfort lies:

1- Absolute best quality and service: Get everything (seal kit plus Koyos all around) from Dan. He's a good guy. Patronize him if you can at all afford the extra $$ that Toyota charges him for the bearings (not his fault, he's on our side!). Total cost: about $350 (I am guessing this includes trunnion bearings.)
2- Probably/perhaps equally good: seal kit and Timkens from Dan. Saves you about $40 IIRC. Some TLC (e.g. 97) seemed to have come with Timkens as OEM so should be just fine. Total about $310.
3- Next best: equal quality and a less $$ for the bearings. Get the full OEM seal kit from Dan and order Koyos or Timkens elsewhere. Your options for the bearings are a) get them online. Seems to be lowest cost of all. Total: about $240 + trunnions ($20 maybe). Or b) from Autozone, a bit more $$ and they won't have the trunnion bearings very likely. Total about $260 + trunnions. Or c) from a bearing place, likely more $$ if you don't have some business discount. Total locally here about $310 + trunnions.
4- A good option as well, good $$ and convenience: get the full kit from Marlin Crawler. Price is very good, kit appears complete, convenient, you're supporting a forum supporter. The bearings are Koyos so that's great. I rate this a tad lower than option 3) only because the seals are apparently not OEM Toyotas. So you decide whether that's important or not to you. Some appear to think that's just fine and which case this would be a great option. But others will only get OEM. Your call. Total cost about $200. Can't beat that.
5. All the parts individually from your local Toyota dealer. Some work and may get errors in parts ID. Much more $$. Who knows? Total cost: I'm guessing $500.
6. Other aftermarket kits from well-known 4x4 places. I read a lot of complaints about poor quality and missing parts. Total: don't know and won't bother to look.

So that's my interpretation. Choose the option you are most comfortable with. Parts number etc are given above.

A couple more comments:
- You will be spending 20 hours doing the Birf job. Do you want to take a chance that the innermost seal will fail cuz it's not absolute top notch quality, and have to redo the whole job again? My advice would be, if you go aftermarket to at least get the axle inner seal from Toyota and use that, at the very least for peace of mind, and perhaps to save you 20 hours of work before too long.
- Shipping and taxes may affect prices given above a bit. Keep in mind.
- I would get a few extra parts to allow for errors and surprises: especially axle inner oil seals and locking washers.

Finally, we all owe Dan so much that I think we should not shop elsewhere to save just a couple of $$. He's been most generous to the forum, and it's a tribute to his honesty that he had in the past volunteered that the OEM bearings were indeed priced somewhat high and suggested himself that they could be bought elsewhere. So a suggestion: if you can't afford or can't swallow the Toyota OEM surcharge on bearings, and buy them elsewhere, but yet feel that you owe Dan plenty, buy a cute gizmo or tool sometime and send it to him as a surprise gesture of thanks.

HTH
Eric

oh yes, and this inch/metric thing is still bugging me, so if anybody can have a look at an OEM bearing or box, it'd be great to confirm that it is indeed LM...

 

[cruiserdan]

The Toyota part numbers for these bearings have been posted in other threads but not in this one where they may come in handy:

Koyos: 90368-45087-77 and 90368-49084-77

Timkins: 90080-36064 and 90080-36067

At current smart shopper prices the Timkins are about 36 dollars cheaper than Koyos. July 1st the TImkins went up about 4 dollars while the Koyos remained un-changed.

 

[Klunky Chris]

Not all SKF branded bearings are made in Mexico. We do PM's on equipment every two and six months and typically change 5 bearings on Diffusion furnaces for a Semiconductor company. For the 9 years I've worked there they have had "made in Japan" stamped on them. They come in a plain red, blue and white box.

you know, as an interesting aside, SKF was a major employer in my little burg here, along with Ingersol Rand. SKF had a factory that I'm 99% sure made bearings.

They shut it down about 5-6 years ago and I think all the stuff is being Hecho en Mexico now.

My point is that *some* SKF bearing are... or at least were, made in USA.

 

[Klunky Chris]

Something else that has not been talked about and I am interested in:

Toyota bearings come as a "matched bearing and race". I have heard that these are actually mated/ run in or something. I have been advised not to mix the NEW bearings and races up because of this.

Obviously, if you order bearings and races seperately by part number this cannot be true.

Can anyone affirm/discredit this "matched set" info I have been given by multiple credible sources? If it IS true I can see a certain advantage to getting the Toyota OEM matced set.

thoughts?

 

[scottm]

I've heard the matched bearing and race thing, sounds unlikely. They're usually ordered separately.

 

[Gumby]

I have always heard the matched race thing, but I have rarely replaced the races unless they were damaged. We replaced all the races in the last two front axle rebuilds at the shop, including the trunion races. The Koyo bearings from Marlin came with them and they are easy to do. (trick for installing the new bearings down in the hubs-use the old races to drive in the new)
We needed to order some bearings for Bryan's 80 and the Carquest bearings did not come with the races. They were available seperately. No way to be matched that way.

My guess is in the old days of non-computer controlled inventory it was easy to get races mixed up and putting in one that was close could cause problems. I can't think of a munufacuring process that would perfectly match a race to a single bearing in such a way that it would be better than another of the same part number. But then I really don't know squat about bearing manufacturing.

 

[Rich]

Proper practice is to always replace the cup and cone together. If the cone is worn, then most likely the cup is also. I have a hard time imagining a cone not being fit for continued service and the cup still being ok.

 

[scottm]

Agreed, not much time or $ saved there. There's a lot that can be wrong with a bearing surface, by the time it's visible it's very bad. And it goes against my excessive maintenance gene.

 

[yoopercharged]

FYI, I work for SKF and it is a Swedish company. Svenska Kullagerfabriken. Means swedish bearing factory. Largest bearing manufacturer in the world. SKF makes bearings in factories all around the world, like most bearing manufactures. Stay away from any Chinese bearing. Their metalurgy sucks.