Wheel Bearing Noise

[Indiana80]

Yes & Yes. I torque to no more than 13ft-lbf.
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Got it! Thanks. Almost done- took way too long. Not realizing how soft the hub material is, I stripped out one of the hub bolts running it in “lightly” with an impact driver. Hub was beat anyway around the mating surface, the anti lock brake sensor teeth and the flange mating surface. Should be back on the road tomorrow.

 

[Indiana80]

I was going to suggest moving tires around but since you have done that already, how are your brakes looking? Backing plates not bent? Any noise when you lift the wheels and spin them by hand? If everything is in order, I agree with doing wheel bearings.

Passenger side front brake backing plate is bent a bit. Can this cause the low frequency wah wah wah noise? I can’t see any metal-on-metal contact with the backing plate. I recently installed new front wheel bearings and races. No change to the wah wah wah. Although the ride feels much more stable. My next step was to swap in new prop shafts with new u-joints. Truck has a very mild lift (about an inch) with OME torsion bars. I’m right on the line as far as acceptable droop. I was thinking next step is new prop shafts. If that doesn’t do it, I’m not sure what’s next. Maybe the front drive shaft boots are chafing and making the annoying noise do to the sight driveline angle change? Any advice?

 

[Indiana80]

Yeah, bass or metal chisel with large round head. The brass is a bit soft, so you'll shave edge as you pound out race. Just keep turning brass dowel, to flattest edge (lip) of dowel, catching race as you work side to side pounding out. (Tip: I grind my brass dowel head flat, as the edges of head get rounded) If using steel chisel, which is faster. You may mare the race seating surface (inner wall wheel hub). Just knock down any burns off wall, that may interfere with race as it's driven in. I use a medium stone on a small handheld rotary tool, to deburr.

These days, I use and air hammer with long stem larger round head steel chisel for races, and brass headed air chisel for wheel hub cones washers. I can pop races out with steel air chisel, in 10 seconds, without maring inner walls of wheel hub. Angle and proper head on chesil is key.

I'm even faster, freeing cone washers. With my modified brass, factory method.


Factory recommended bass method.



Lug bolt are pound out with steel. We're not concerned with damaging the old lug, we're replacing. Rears can be done on the vehicle. Front are much more involved. Fronts we must not only remove wheel hub. But we must also remove rotor from wheel hub.

Removing rotor from wheel hub, once hub remove from knuckle:

1. Scrape inner hub area/cylindrical that rotor must pass over to remove baked on brake dust and rust (crud rotor disk may get hung up on). Get off the harden brake dust and rust best you can. Power wash.
2. This step for the crudy rust stuck on rotors. Place wheel hub with rotor, in a catch pan. Add ATF to inner area where rotor bolt head are. ATF is and excellent penetration and derusting oil. Let AFT soak in, overnight.
3. Remove the five 17mm bolts.
4. Place rotors disk on wooden blocks. High enough so that wheel hub suspended in the air (off your working surface)
5. I use a dead blow hammer, and pound on back of wheel hub. Pound wheel hub off rotor, by hitting in side to side pattern. Alternately, use a wood block to protect wheel hub or a lead hammer. Whatever you do. Do not damage wheel hub, by hitting with hard metal. Ever these brass hammers, which are forged brass, can damage the wheel hub. We must not damage the seal seat area and the teeth, speed sensor reads on back side of wheel hub.
   
   After cleaning inner wheel hub, I soak overnight. I place in catch pan, since ATF will seeps out, as it frees rust and brake dust crud.
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Rotor disk, is set on wooden blocks to suspend wheel hub above bench. So it can pass through rotor without bench interference.
NOTE: I no longer use these plastic hammers.
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I no longer use these plastic hammers. I found, as I pounded out really stuck rotors. The plastic gave way, to the metal within. This can damage the hub. I've found a dead blow hammer works the best.

View attachment 3667248
Once rotor off wheel hub. You can then beat out lug bolts you're replacing, with steel hammer. Then use a lug nut and washer (as spacers), to pull new lugs bolt (studs) through wheel hub and seat all the way in wheel hub. Alternately use a press or vise as makeshift press.
View attachment 3667259

Excellent advice. I used “cutoffs” of hardwood lumber to drive hub out of rotor, start new bearing races in, and start new oil seal into hub after inner bearing installed. Wood is softer than metal, generally, and makes for a great driver tool.

 

[Indiana80]

Yes & Yes. I torque to no more than 13ft-lbf.
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Thanks again

Yes & Yes. I torque to no more than 13ft-lbf.
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Thanks again 2001LC. I got it all put back together with new bearings and races. Much tighter and smoother now. Also found my new upper and lower ball joints weren’t torqued to spec and cotter pins weren’t even installed between the teeth of the castle nuts. Got that all fixed. The only issue left with this truck is the rotational wah wah wah above 20MPH. It’s not really a metallic sound, more of a droning / oscillating noise. Definitely not a scraping noise. With wheel bearings ruled out, spindles fully greased with tons of the old grease pushing through backs of both knuckles, and everything tight up front, I think I’m down to:
-tires- BFG KO2s w/ about 20K on them. Rotated all around / road force balanced / noise didn’t change
-front drive shafts- left front is rather new OEM. Right front looks OEM- age unknown. No rotational weirdness spinning by hand, but both sides’ boots make a rubbing sound with the ribs of the boots rubbing together due to angle of shafts w/ wheels hanging. No clicking in turns and turns are smooth.
-leaves me with front diff (noise seems to be on front 1/2 of truck). Are the diffs in ‘05s prone to fail around 200K miles? Maybe diff carrier bearings? I drained and refilled. Old fluid looked good. No metal chunks on magnet.
-or, and my bet, prop shafts / u-joints. They are original. I’ve greased the s*** out of the u-joints and greased the slip yokes. Couldn’t get grease to go past the oil seal on slip yokes. Prop shafts / u-joints are original. U-joints / slip yokes that have probably been neglected a good part of their life prone to failure around 200K miles?

 

[Patassa]

You need the Land Cruiser Scheduled Maintenance guide, for your year. It's used with OM & Factory Service Manual. (FSM)

We don't pull front drive shafts (AKA: FDS. AKA CV) as a PM service. To be clear. Toyota calls it a FDS not CV. FDS have 5 components (inner & outer CV cover with boots, inner axle, center axle, outer axle) plus an outer seal and inner dust cover. The outer axle goes through the steering knuckles spindle. The needle bearing a brass bushing, reside in the back of the knuckle.
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If I've know, needle bearing good and no contaimates inside spindle. I use the Slee spindle lube tool. Which I do have and extra one, if anyone needs one. Usually I use the Slee lube tool, the second service I do. First service, I pull knuckle and restore. Checking to see if bent, restoring where others beat the ball joints off with BFH, defroming the ball joint boot sealing surface and derusting. New needle bearing and bushing R&R, if needed and always a new knuckle seal. View attachment 3666759

Can anyone explain the brass bushing to me, what's it's purpose, why are their grooves in it, why does it need to be greased?

 

[2001LC]

The brass bushing, is so the FDS axle can float up against it. It's a wear point, since brass is softer than steel. The grooves hold grease, to reduce wear and thus sound of metal to metal.
The hub flange snap ring, come in various thicknesses. By setting hub flange snap ring gap at less than 0.20mm. Were pulling the seals (knuckle seal and FDS outer axle seal) together, to make a watertight seal. The brass bushing, is number the one wear point. The various size snap rings, take up the wear of brass.

Note:
Even when FDS axle pulled up to knuckles brass bushing and gap set to spec:
I see some issues, when non OEM or remain FDS used.
Outer axle seal, that FDS comes with. May not be the same as OEM or worn out. So we may get water entry.
Water entry also:
Snap ring gap, larger than spec. We may get water entry.
Hub flange pounded off, warping or creating lips (high spots), so hub flange will not mat perfectly flush. We may get water entry.
Reusing grease cap, we may get water entry.

Grease turns milky brown, if water mixes in it.

CVJ reman FDS, painted black (I hate that paint). The paint damaged axle bearings, and can damage wheel hub seal. Note: If using a painted FDS axle. Remove the paint, before installing.

This one had spindle threads damage from reuse of wheel bearing lock washer, also damaged ball joint & TRE boot seats, from pound off with BFH, rather than using ball joint pullers as one should. Additional, it was an excessively rusty knuckle.


Axle contaminated grease cleaned up, paint removed. Also axle needle bearing, brass bushing, seal surfaces polished (shown before polishing).

Recondition all metal, painted with POR-15 Top Coat, new needle bearing & brass bushing, seal. Needle bearing pack with grease and brass coated with grease.
Knuckle recondition and ready to install..

 

[KentuckyWildcat84]

Thanks again

Thanks again 2001LC. I got it all put back together with new bearings and races. Much tighter and smoother now. Also found my new upper and lower ball joints weren’t torqued to spec and cotter pins weren’t even installed between the teeth of the castle nuts. Got that all fixed. The only issue left with this truck is the rotational wah wah wah above 20MPH. It’s not really a metallic sound, more of a droning / oscillating noise. Definitely not a scraping noise. With wheel bearings ruled out, spindles fully greased with tons of the old grease pushing through backs of both knuckles, and everything tight up front, I think I’m down to:
-tires- BFG KO2s w/ about 20K on them. Rotated all around / road force balanced / noise didn’t change
-front drive shafts- left front is rather new OEM. Right front looks OEM- age unknown. No rotational weirdness spinning by hand, but both sides’ boots make a rubbing sound with the ribs of the boots rubbing together due to angle of shafts w/ wheels hanging. No clicking in turns and turns are smooth.
-leaves me with front diff (noise seems to be on front 1/2 of truck). Are the diffs in ‘05s prone to fail around 200K miles? Maybe diff carrier bearings? I drained and refilled. Old fluid looked good. No metal chunks on magnet.
-or, and my bet, prop shafts / u-joints. They are original. I’ve greased the s*** out of the u-joints and greased the slip yokes. Couldn’t get grease to go past the oil seal on slip yokes. Prop shafts / u-joints are original. U-joints / slip yokes that have probably been neglected a good part of their life prone to failure around 200K miles?

I have what appears to be the exact same sound as you. No play in any of the bearings. I bought a new rear hub/bearing and seal, anticipating that being the issue. I have also swapped wheels/tires with another vehicle of mine, no change. I'm leaning towards prop shaft/u joint.

What ended up being your fix?

My GX is a 03 with 231k miles. 2.5" lift, 33" Toyo OC's.

 

[HectJDM]

Have you done the wheel bearing?

 

[Malleus]

The brass bushing, is so the FDS axle can float up against it. It's a wear point, since brass is softer than steel. The grooves hold grease, to reduce wear and thus sound of metal to metal.
The hub flange snap ring, come in various thicknesses. By setting hub flange snap ring gap at less than 0.20mm. Were pulling the seals (knuckle seal and FDS outer axle seal) together, to make a watertight seal. The brass bushing, is number the one wear point. The various size snap rings, take up the wear of brass.

Note:
Even when FDS axle pulled up to knuckles brass bushing and gap set to spec:
I see some issues, when non OEM or remain FDS used.
Outer axle seal, that FDS comes with. May not be the same as OEM or worn out. So we may get water entry.
Water entry also:
Snap ring gap, larger than spec. We may get water entry.
Hub flange pounded off, warping or creating lips (high spots), so hub flange will not mat perfectly flush. We may get water entry.
Reusing grease cap, we may get water entry.

Grease turns milky brown, if water mixes in it.
View attachment 3730562View attachment 3730564
CVJ reman FDS, painted black (I hate that paint). The paint damaged axle bearings, and can damage wheel hub seal. Note: If using a painted FDS axle. Remove the paint, before installing.
View attachment 3730563

This one had spindle threads damage from reuse of wheel bearing lock washer, also damaged ball joint & TRE boot seats, from pound off with BFH, rather than using ball joint pullers as one should. Additional, it was an excessively rusty knuckle.


Axle contaminated grease cleaned up, paint removed. Also axle needle bearing, brass bushing, seal surfaces polished (shown before polishing).
View attachment 3730571
Recondition all metal, painted with POR-15 Top Coat, new needle bearing & brass bushing, seal. Needle bearing pack with grease and brass coated with grease.
Knuckle recondition and ready to install..
View attachment 3730574

Good grief! What did that guy use for bearing grease - potter's clay?

 

[KentuckyWildcat84]

Have you done the wheel bearing?

Not yet, as I don’t suspect that wheel bearing is my issue. It could very well be. Just want to look into everything before I start throwing parts/money at different things and going the process of elimination route.

 

[2001LC]

Good grief! What did that guy use for bearing grease - potter's clay?

Nope!.

When water gets into grease, it turns brown and very had to clean off.
Some of reasons we get water into hub:

1. Reuse of grease cap, is #1.
2. Beating on hub flange and wheel hub where the two meet, warping seals mating surface.
3. Not setting hub flange to snap ring gap, within limit of .20mm. Resulting in excessive gap at seal in back of knuckle and its mate on FDS (AKA CV)
4. Loose wheel bearing, hub wobble. Damaging seal in back of wheel hub.
5. Not replacing hub seal or hub gasket.
6. Damaged FDS seal
7. Damage knuckle seal.

 

[Land Shark]

You can rent this tool from Advance Auto (I think Autozone may also have this as well).

I have not used this on my LC yet but I did front bearings on my AWD sienna (different setup) and it made the job a breeze.

View attachment 3666597

You do not need a press to install bearing races

 

[Indiana80]

I have what appears to be the exact same sound as you. No play in any of the bearings. I bought a new rear hub/bearing and seal, anticipating that being the issue. I have also swapped wheels/tires with another vehicle of mine, no change. I'm leaning towards prop shaft/u joint.

What ended up being your fix?

My GX is a 03 with 231k miles. 2.5" lift, 33" Toyo OC's.

The new bearings were a huge improvement on my rig. The wah wah wah never completely went away. I had a Toyota Master Diag Tech drive it. He claimed tires noise, so I called it good. The truck was awesome, until we got hit by a drunk driver in January of this year. Rear-end collision- buckled and creased the frame. I’m in the market for a replacement 100 or 200 series. For now, I’m daily driving my 80 series, and still bummed about losing the 100 and dealing with a back issue from the wreck.

 

[HectJDM]

Not yet, as I don’t suspect that wheel bearing is my issue. It could very well be. Just want to look into everything before I start throwing parts/money at different things and going the process of elimination route.

right . GL with that

 

[KentuckyWildcat84]

The new bearings were a huge improvement on my rig. The wah wah wah never completely went away. I had a Toyota Master Diag Tech drive it. He claimed tires noise, so I called it good. The truck was awesome, until we got hit by a drunk driver in January of this year. Rear-end collision- buckled and creased the frame. I’m in the market for a replacement 100 or 200 series. For now, I’m daily driving my 80 series, and still bummed about losing the 100 and dealing with a back issue from the wreck.

Yah I I’ve grown

right . GL with that

thats the point, I dont plan on going that route. I guess i should have worded it, as i dont suspect the wheel bearing is my issue, and im not going to just start replacing parts, narrowing it down via process of elimination.

 

[HectJDM]

Yah I I’ve grown

thats the point, I dont plan on going that route. I guess i should have worded it, as i dont suspect the wheel bearing is my issue, and im not going to just start replacing parts, narrowing it down via process of elimination.

Ok then.