Wheel Bearing Noise

[2001LC]

So the inner and outer races are pretty easy to drive out with a brass drift?

Also, I know I have a buggered up hub bolt (AKA wheel stud) so I’ll probably replace that while there. Hammer the old one out and brass hammer the new one in?

Yeah, bass or metal chisel with large round head. The brass is a bit soft, so you'll shave edge as you pound out race. Just keep turning brass dowel, to flattest edge (lip) of dowel, catching race as you work side to side pounding out. (Tip: I grind my brass dowel head flat, as the edges of head get rounded) If using steel chisel, which is faster. You may mare the race seating surface (inner wall wheel hub). Just knock down any burns off wall, that may interfere with race as it's driven in. I use a medium stone on a small handheld rotary tool, to deburr.

These days, I use and air hammer with long stem larger round head steel chisel for races, and brass headed air chisel for wheel hub cones washers. I can pop races out with steel air chisel, in 10 seconds, without maring inner walls of wheel hub. Angle and proper head on chesil is key.

I'm even faster, freeing cone washers. With my modified brass, factory method.


Factory recommended bass method.



Lug bolt are pound out with steel. We're not concerned with damaging the old lug, we're replacing. Rears can be done on the vehicle. Front are much more involved. Fronts we must not only remove wheel hub. But we must also remove rotor from wheel hub.

Removing rotor from wheel hub, once hub remove from knuckle:

1. Scrape inner hub area/cylindrical that rotor must pass over to remove baked on brake dust and rust (crud rotor disk may get hung up on). Get off the harden brake dust and rust best you can. Power wash.
2. This step for the crudy rust stuck on rotors. Place wheel hub with rotor, in a catch pan. Add ATF to inner area where rotor bolt head are. ATF is and excellent penetration and derusting oil. Let AFT soak in, overnight.
3. Remove the five 17mm bolts.
4. Place rotors disk on wooden blocks. High enough so that wheel hub suspended in the air (off your working surface)
5. I use a dead blow hammer, and pound on back of wheel hub. Pound wheel hub off rotor, by hitting in side to side pattern. Alternately, use a wood block to protect wheel hub or a lead hammer. Whatever you do. Do not damage wheel hub, by hitting with hard metal. Ever these brass hammers, which are forged brass, can damage the wheel hub. We must not damage the seal seat area and the teeth, speed sensor reads on back side of wheel hub.
   
   After cleaning inner wheel hub, I soak overnight. I place in catch pan, since ATF will seeps out, as it frees rust and brake dust crud.
   
   

Rotor disk, is set on wooden blocks to suspend wheel hub above bench. So it can pass through rotor without bench interference.
NOTE: I no longer use these plastic hammers.

I no longer use these plastic hammers. I found, as I pounded out really stuck rotors. The plastic gave way, to the metal within. This can damage the hub. I've found a dead blow hammer works the best.

Once rotor off wheel hub. You can then beat out lug bolts you're replacing, with steel hammer. Then use a lug nut and washer (as spacers), to pull new lugs bolt (studs) through wheel hub and seat all the way in wheel hub. Alternately use a press or vise as makeshift press.

 

[2001LC]

Thanks for that @2001LC. I'm getting ready to service the front wheel bearings in the Unicorn, likely for the first time since you did them almost 90k miles ago.

Due every 30K miles, and for sure not done if you've not.
It was the Unicorn, that was the hardest every, to pound off cone washers (video above with brass dowel and hand held hammer). They were glued in..

 

[Indiana80]

Wheel bearings, FDS CV bearings, propeller shaft spiders (u-joints) can produce sounds like you're hearing (wah wah wah). But sound of those, do tend to be present at all speeds. But may not be heard due to engine and tire noise.
Shift into N and coast down hill at 60 MPH.
Check with IR gun, for excessive heat build up.
Check for looseness/play, they shouldn't be any.

Hard one to diagnose:
Axle needle bearing, is one I've found difficult to diagnose. They do tend to quiet down over ~25 MPH and mostly heard at 5 to 15 MPH. To me, kind of a scapinging sound.

First zero in on which corner (wheel). Then pull out FDS axle. Look at axle where needle bearing rolls. If scored more than what would be normal for the miles, replace needle bearing.

Axle bearing are also required to be lubed, with every 30K miles wheel bearing service. Unfortunately they almost never are lubed/greased.

This FDS axle had less than 2K miles on it. Yet scoring where needle bearings rolls, and color (indicating excessive heat) worse than seen on some at 250k mile, that were never lubed.
View attachment 3666433

View attachment 3666443
View attachment 3666442

Just drove the truck a few miles with windows up to try to isolate the noise. The wah wah wah noise actually doesn’t really become audible until about 20-25 MPH and only changes / gets louder to about 45-50MPH. It’s low frequency, but somehow gives me a headache. Sounds like coming from DS corner- the corner with the really loose wheel bearing I detected right after I bought it.

 

[Indiana80]

Just drive the truck a few miles with windows up to try to isolate the noise. The wah wah wah noise actually doesn’t really become audible until about 20-25 MPH and only changes / gets louder to about 45-50MPH. It’s low frequency, but somehow gives me a headache. Sounds like coming from DS corner- the corner with the really loose wheel bearing I detected right after I bought it.

Slight revision to above…noise is there at less than 20MPH, but barely audible. 25-30MPH it gets RFL- almost like a UFO is hovering right above the truck. So, hopefully it’s not FDS related and just an old neglected wheel bearing. I’ll report back once I get new bearings swapped in.

 

[Indiana80]

Slight revision to above…noise is there at less than 20MPH, but barely audible. 25-30MPH it gets RFL- almost like a UFO is hovering right above the truck. So, hopefully it’s not FDS related and just an old neglected wheel bearing. I’ll report back once I get new bearings swapped in.

Also, when going down hill or driving on a flat surface, noise doesn’t change when I shift to neutral. Does this rule out u-joints / drive shaft issues and point to either wheel bearings or tires?

 

[Indiana80]

Also, when going down hill or driving on a flat surface, noise doesn’t change when I shift to neutral. Does this rule out u-joints / drive shaft issues and point to either wheel bearings or tires?

And jacked up front end this evening and put truck in neutral- it was chocked and park brake set. Spun both front wheels. Both wheels spun with some resistance- if I spun with price is right wheel force I could get maybe one full rotation out of each side. Slightly scratchy sound from hub area on both sides when spinning. Seemed like there was one spot in the driver side rotation where the scratchy sound got a little louder. Can a bad wheel bearing / race reveal itself in just one spot of the rotation or would it be constant? This is the side that gets pretty darn hot in the hub flange area after a long drive at interstate speed. Also it is the corner where it sounds like the sound is coming from when I’m driver seat. I’ve tried sticking my head out of driver side window (like my dog) when going 25-30, and I can’t hear the noise. Also, no play 12/6 on either side. Faint bit of play 9/3 on both sides.

 

[Bisho]

And jacked up front end this evening and put truck in neutral- it was chocked and park brake set. Spun both front wheels. Both wheels spun with some resistance- if I spun with price is right wheel force I could get maybe one full rotation out of each side. Slightly scratchy sound from hub area on both sides when spinning. Seemed like there was one spot in the driver side rotation where the scratchy sound got a little louder. Can a bad wheel bearing / race reveal itself in just one spot of the rotation or would it be constant? This is the side that gets pretty darn hot in the hub flange area after a long drive at interstate speed. Also it is the corner where it sounds like the sound is coming from when I’m driver seat. I’ve tried sticking my head out of driver side window (like my dog) when going 25-30, and I can’t hear the noise. Also, no play 12/6 on either side. Faint bit of play 9/3 on both sides.

9/3 play is most likely inner/outer tie rods. Your bearings could still be tight (no play 12/6) but worn or dry causing noise.

 

[Indiana80]

Wheel bearings, FDS CV bearings, propeller shaft spiders (u-joints) can produce sounds like you're hearing (wah wah wah). But sound of those, do tend to be present at all speeds. But may not be heard due to engine and tire noise.
Shift into N and coast down hill at 60 MPH.
Check with IR gun, for excessive heat build up.
Check for looseness/play, they shouldn't be any.

Hard one to diagnose:
Axle needle bearing, is one I've found difficult to diagnose. They do tend to quiet down over ~25 MPH and mostly heard at 5 to 15 MPH. To me, kind of a scapinging sound.

First zero in on which corner (wheel). Then pull out FDS axle. Look at axle where needle bearing rolls. If scored more than what would be normal for the miles, replace needle bearing.

Axle bearing are also required to be lubed, with every 30K miles wheel bearing service. Unfortunately they almost never are lubed/greased.

This FDS axle had less than 2K miles on it. Yet scoring where needle bearings rolls, and color (indicating excessive heat) worse than seen on some at 250k mile, that were never lubed.
View attachment 3666433

View attachment 3666443
View attachment 3666442

My wah wah wah / whirring sound gets louder above 25MPH and is not a scraping sound. Doesn’t change if I put truck in neutral going downhill on the highway. I’ve got new seal, wheel bearings, etc on the way. If I wanted to inspect / replace the needle bearing / brass bushing / knuckle seal, do I need to remove the knuckle? Hoping to avoid going that deep. I have greased the needle bearing / spindle spindle via the Slee spindle greasing tool. Truck is at 216K miles.

 

[2001LC]

First you change the condition form OP, at which you heard wah wah wah. From 10-15 MPH. To only higher speeds. The needle bearing tend to be heard, mostly or only at low speed.

Spider wah wah wah are usually just needing to be lubed. Sound doesn't change coasting 60MPH. Just makes easier to hear/isolate and eliminating transmission & engine sounds.

It is possible to R&R needle bearing, brass bush & seal in place. But it is much easier to just pull knuckle.

I always recommend a knuckle service (restore), first wheel bearing. First being (these days) ~20 yr old and 150k to 400K miles.



I de-rust and set up so they'll no longer rust.

I restore areas curled up, where ball joint boot seal to. Due to idiots, beating-off with BFH.

After first knuckle service, I use Slee spindle lube tool. During subsequent wheel bearing services.

 

[Indiana80]

First you change the condition form OP, at which you heard wah wah wah. From 10-15 MPH. To only higher speeds. The needle bearing tend to be heard, mostly or only at low speed.

Spider wah wah wah are usually just needing to be lubed. Sound doesn't change coasting 60MPH. Just makes easier to hear/isolate and eliminating transmission & engine sounds.

It is possible to R&R needle bearing, brass bush & seal in place. But it is much easier to just pull knuckle.

I always recommend a knuckle service (restore), first wheel bearing. First being (these days) ~20 yr old and 150k to 400K miles.



I de-rust and set up so they'll no longer rust.
View attachment 3671357
I restore areas curled up, where ball joint boot seal to. Due to idiots, beating-off with BFH.
View attachment 3671361
View attachment 3671358
View attachment 3671366

View attachment 3671367

After first knuckle service, I use Slee spindle lube tool. During subsequent wheel bearing services.

Thank you. Fortunately, none of my parts are rusty. I think I’m going to not service knuckle on this wheel bearing job. However, I’m wondering if while have it tore down to brake dust cover, should I also replace the gasket and oil seal just outside the dust cover?

 

[2001LC]

Thank you. Fortunately, none of my parts are rusty. I think I’m going to not service knuckle on this wheel bearing job. However, I’m wondering if while have it tore down to brake dust cover, should I also replace the gasket and oil seal just outside the dust cover?

View attachment 3671457

Depends on condition.
The oil seal is not a watertight seal, so not crucial. I inspect rubber of oil seal, if damaged, I replace.
Gaskets is sometimes reusable, but I always change it.
Very likely, when you get brake dust shield off, you'll find rust on face of knuckle where brake dust shield.


Once wheel hub pulled, and brake dust shield off. It easy to use a puller, and pop the 3 ball joints (upper, lower and TRE).
When I pull knuckles. To keep seal of FDS from touching LCA, or will bend. I place a 2" oak stick under FDS back of top of ball joint. This seal if bent, can result in a rotational scraping sound.

Bent FDS seal

 

[Indiana80]

Depends on condition.
The oil seal is not a watertight seal, so not crucial. I inspect rubber of oil seal, if damaged, I replace.
Gaskets is sometimes reusable, but I always change it.
Very likely, when you get brake dust shield off, you'll find rust on face of knuckle where brake dust shield.


Once wheel hub pulled, and brake dust shield off. It easy to use a puller, and pop the 3 ball joints (upper, lower and TRE).
When I pull knuckles. To keep seal of FDS from touching LCA, or will bend. I place a 2" oak stick under FDS back of top of ball joint. This seal if bent, can result in a rotational scraping sound.


View attachment 3672604View attachment 3672619
Bent FDS seal
View attachment 3672621

Thanks! I know one of my metal seals (back of knuckle to CV boot) is slightly dinged in in one spot. I noticed it last Feb when I greased my spindles and was watching for the old grease to push through on the backside. The noise I have is rotational, but to me it’s not a metallic scraping- more of a low frequency wub wub wub or wah wah wah. With windows up, sounds kind of like a helicopter rotor on top of my head. Wheel bearings, etc on their way from Amayama. Also trying to identify a pop I’m hearing when slowy turning and when one of the front wheels drops suddenly- like when going over an indentation on a city street. I can faintly feel it in the steering wheel and I’m suspecting it’s tie rod end related. It’s just a single pop. Never ends

 

[2001LC]

POP may be, ball joint.

 

[Indiana80]

POP may be, ball joint.

Pop has been present since I bought the truck last December. New upper and lower control arms (and ball joints) didn’t change it. From sway bar links, cushions, and bushings didn’t change it, either. Can’t find anything loose in front end.

 

[Indiana80]

Pop has been present since I bought the truck last December. New upper and lower control arms (and ball joints) didn’t change it. From sway bar links, cushions, and bushings didn’t change it, either. Can’t find anything loose in front end.

Only thing that I can detect off in front end is the diff bushing on the driver side. That bushing has tons of play when prying with pry bar- it’s almost as if there’s no bushing in there. It’s in my list to replace, as well. I’ve got a Slee diff drop, SPC UCAs, and Old Man Emu shocks and torsion bars…all fairly new. Maybe there’s something not quite to spec with the aftermarket parts that my truck is not agreeing with.

 

[Indiana80]

Only thing that I can detect off in front end is the diff bushing on the driver side. That bushing has tons of play when prying with pry bar- it’s almost as if there’s no bushing in there. It’s in my list to replace, as well. I’ve got a Slee diff drop, SPC UCAs, and Old Man Emu shocks and torsion bars…all fairly new. Maybe there’s something not quite to spec with the aftermarket parts that my truck is not agreeing with.

Worn out DS diff bushing seems like it could affect tracking / steering and lead to some clunking in turns. Can’t be good to run very long in this condition.

 

[Indiana80]

I restore a lot of wheel hubs. only 1 in ~200 that I had to replace. It was the one above, where metal so beat on it ripped the steel. Which was from improper brake rotor replacement.
View attachment 3666829
View attachment 3666832
View attachment 3666819
View attachment 3666824
View attachment 3666835

2001LC- I’ll be installing a new DS hub this weekend. For the new flange studs, the longer end goes into hub, correct? Do you recommend blue loc tite on the hub side threads. Many thanks in advance!

 

[Indiana80]

Installing new hub flange studs…long threaded end into the hub or short threaded end into hub. Long threaded end seems logical, but wanted to double check. Thanks!

 

[2001LC]

Yes & Yes. I torque to no more than 13ft-lbf.

 

[2001LC]

Wheel Bearing Noise

So the inner and outer races are pretty easy to drive out with a brass drift? Also, I know I have a buggered up hub bolt (AKA wheel stud) so I’ll probably replace that while there. Hammer the old one out and brass hammer the new one in? Yeah, bass or metal chisel with large round head. The...

forum.ih8mud.com