What is causing these marks and are my spindles shot? (1 Viewer)

[FJP971]

Took my front passenger bearings out for inspection while addressing a 12-6 shimmy. I noticed some marks on the spindle and inside both the inner and outer bearing. Anything to worry about? Everything seemed to be greased up properly from my last inspection about a year ago.

Last year I re-torqued the front end to 43ft/lbs per FSM and 20 or 25 ft/lbs on the Trail Gear locking nut per MUD research for 35s. I was a little surprised it loosened up but I did just come back from a trip with tons of washboard and rocky roads. Are those heat marks? Bearings looked fine otherwise.

Put it back together and no more wobble from 12-6.

 

[nukegoat]

Bearing is spinning on the spindle journal. its not good but just check the spindle nuts regularly

 

[FJP971]

Thanks for the quick reply nukegoat. Would that indicate there was not enough torque on the bearings which in turn allowed them to spin on the journal?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Took my front passenger bearings out for inspection while addressing a 12-6 shimmy. I noticed some marks on the spindle and inside both the inner and outer bearing. Anything to worry about? Everything seemed to be greased up properly from my last inspection about a year ago.

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Last year I re-torqued the front end to 43ft/lbs per FSM and 20 or 25 ft/lbs on the Trail Gear locking nut per MUD research for 35s. I was a little surprised it loosened up but I did just come back from a trip with tons of washboard and rocky roads. Are those heat marks? Bearings looked fine otherwise.

Put it back together and no more wobble from 12-6.

After you torque to 25ft/lbs (min 25ft/lbs IMO) do you spin wheel and retorque?

 

[Rifleman]

Front Axle Cheatsheet
This is a link to front axle rebuild info for our trucks. In it, it list torquing your inner wheel bearing nut to 43 foot pounds, then spinning the rotor 3 complete turns in each directions. Then unloosen the nut and re torque it to 48 INCH POUNDS, not foot pounds! Next install the star washer, and then install the outer lock nut, and torque it to 47 foot pounds. When your done, check the pre load by using a fish scale to turn the rotor, you need between 6.4, to 12.6 pounds to turn the rotor if your bearing pre load is correct.

 

[nukegoat]

Thanks for the quick reply nukegoat. Would that indicate there was not enough torque on the bearings which in turn allowed them to spin on the journal?

Yes, possibly... which may be made worse by accumulated wear on the spindle from previous loose preload situations. Cheap bearings sometimes also fit poorly, etc.

Just keep it tight and dont sweat it

 

[Pin_Head]

If the bearing race is loose on the spindle, you can tighten it by making a series of evenly space center punch marks on the spindle surface. Make a few at a time until it is tight enough. Locktite makes a product for gluing loose races.

 

[FJP971]

After you torque to 25ft/lbs (min 25ft/lbs IMO) do you spin wheel and retorque?

I only spun and retorqued after the initial 43ft/lbs but not when I torqued the locking nut to 25ft/lbs. It felt nice and stable when I was done. I'll probably recheck it in a couple of weeks.

Front Axle Cheatsheet
This is a link to front axle rebuild info for our trucks. In it, it list torquing your inner wheel bearing nut to 43 foot pounds, then spinning the rotor 3 complete turns in each directions. Then unloosen the nut and re torque it to 48 INCH POUNDS, not foot pounds! Next install the star washer, and then install the outer lock nut, and torque it to 47 foot pounds. When your done, check the pre load by using a fish scale to turn the rotor, you need between 6.4, to 12.6 pounds to turn the rotor if your bearing pre load is correct.

Thanks for the info Rifleman but this is for stock hardware and tire size. There are different approaches for TG locking nut and larger tires.

 

[bloc]

Locktite makes a product for gluing loose races.

If it's the stuff I researched 10 years ago to address loose carrier bearings on an 8" v6 diff, that stuff isn't designed to come loose, ever.

 

[Hornd]

May I ask what brand of bearings you are running?
May I recommend you run Timkin or Koyo and pack them full with a Red High Pressure Grease.

 

[FJP971]

May I ask what brand of bearings you are running?
May I recommend you run Timkin or Koyo and pack them full with a Red High Pressure Grease.

Timkins. They were on there when I bought it. Not sure how old they are. Btw, thanks to everyone for their input on this. I think this explains the intermittent grinding sound/feeling I was getting when braking at slower speeds.

 

[Rifleman]

If the bearing race is loose on the spindle, you can tighten it by making a series of evenly space center punch marks on the spindle surface. Make a few at a time until it is tight enough. Locktite makes a product for gluing loose races.

Are your talking about a Loctite retaining compound, like RC620. If you put this on your spindle, and install the inner cone of your wheel bearings dry (no grease between the spindle and the cone) then good luck getting the hub back off. I've seen this stuff installed on bearings, and then watched as a 17 ton OTC puller fail to remove those bearings. The only way to remove the cured loctite bond on this stuff, is direct heat, and alot of it, as in an open flame from a torch.

 

[tacoma2002]

FWIW

I've had good luck using a bead of red Loctite on the race to keep this from happening. Keep in mind that I've only ever used this method on rotating electrical parts (since they spin so fast). I've never had an issue with the race spinning or getting the race out. Couple swift blows with a BFH and they come right out.

Good luck.

 

[Pin_Head]

It is the green stuff and you need heat to get it off.

 

[BILT4ME]

It is the green stuff and you need heat to get it off.

I have a front hub on an old GMC 4X4 that replacement hubs are not available and there were very few made. The PO spun the races in the hub. Would you recommend I use that version of Loctite to seat those new races?

 

[Pin_Head]

I have a front hub on an old GMC 4X4 that replacement hubs are not available and there were very few made. The PO spun the races in the hub. Would you recommend I use that version of Loctite to seat those new races?

If the race spun, chances are that the spindle surface is too far gone for locktite. I would build up the surface by welding and have them machined back to spec. They aren't very hard, so I doubt that they were heat treated like a forged part.

 

[BILT4ME]

If the race spun, chances are that the spindle surface is too far gone for locktite. I would build up the surface by welding and have them machined back to spec. They aren't very hard, so I doubt that they were heat treated like a forged part.

I'm not the OP. In my case, the OUTER race spun in the HUB. Not an easy place to weld inside and remachine. Wanted to find out if there is success doing this or if I need to machine the inside and sleeve it.

 

[ajax1]

I'd just take some scotch brite to the spindle and the bearing that will come right off, unless there is grove you can feel with your finger nail I'd run that spindle after you cleaned it up. On another note we see bearings like that all the time with the marks we call it water marks in aviation on the wheel bearings which will see speeds way higher then your cruiser caused by water getting in and causing little corrosion and just scotch brite that right off. I also would torque your outer nut to higher then 25ftlbs I believe it should be around 43 to 47 ft lbs

 

[Rifleman]

I have a front hub on an old GMC 4X4 that replacement hubs are not available and there were very few made. The PO spun the races in the hub. Would you recommend I use that version of Loctite to seat those new races?

Loctite RC620 will fill up to a .015 gap on your damaged spindle, and has an operating temp up to 450 degrees F. Loctite RC680 will fill up to a .015 gap on your damaged spindle, and has an operating temp up to 300 degrees F. Both of these Loctite products are made for the automotive aftermarket, see links below. Please take note, like i said above, if you use one of these Loctite products, you will need to use a torch with LOTS OF HEAT to remove your bearings.

Now if you want your spindle repaired the right way, take it to a machine shop that offers metal spray. One of the problems with metal spray is it's cost. Just as an FYI, these metal spray costs, along with machine shop costs, may be more then the cost of buying a used spindle in good condition.

Loctite RC620 link info http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/industrial/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8801761984513

Loctite RC680 link info http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/industrial/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797931995137

Metal spray process info Metal Spray Process, Thermal Spray, ArcSpray, Plasma and HVOF | Metallisation Ltd