What Happened to the Cummins 6bt Conversion thread?

[cnorm5623]

I would love to get a kit! I am getting a motor this weekend! 69rambler I sent you a PM.

 

[on the rocks]

Good info. With this being said and your experience with it would you recommend staying at 2002 and older? If you ever look into the 2003+ option are we talking years out if ever along with a higher cost to convert due to issues below? Would like to source a 5.9 first then the kit so looking for suggestions. Problem is I'm having is I have a 97' CE so what I have read so far the state of Colorado is requiring emissions to pass for either the motor or vehicle, whichever is newer. I assume since going to diesel it would be smarter to pass the emissions based on the newer Cummins/ Dodge spec? I really don't care for the 1998-2003 Cummins from what I read on them, so my options are more limited assuming it would benefit me to get a 97'6BT(I own a collectors addition and believe they were re-badged with the 40th late in the year and released) so this may be tough and one of the last 12 valve P pump motors were stopped in production in 98' so the number of them out there locally is limited. I might be over thinking this and have a lot more digging to do but just wondering.
Thanks

The commonrail kit will be developed some time after the 2002 and prior kit is proven successful. There are obviously parts that carry over, but there are many distinctive differences with how the Commonrail's are configured and operate compared to the previous engines.

The wiring harness provided in the 2002 and down kit interfaces the 80 series electrical system with the Compushift, the throttle linkage/APPS assembly, the cruise control computer and actuator, gauge sending units, tachometer prox switch, AC cutout switch, and supplies both the mechanical and early 24 valve engines with the proper connections.

The Commonrails require a substantially differing approach to cruise control. The commonrail APPS will not support the idle reference signal the 93-97 FZJ80 cruise computer needs to see and the commonrail ECM handles cruise control internally- It interfaces directly with the cruise wiring from the switches on the steering column eliminating the Toyota cruise computer and actuator entirely.

The Commonrails have packaging differences notably the turbo is in a completely different location and the PCV system is on top the valve cover requiring the entire valve cover and PCV system be replaced/relocated. Commonrails do not have a vacuum pump to supply the FZJ80 brake system and the 2003+ Dodge power steering pumps are problematic and there are umpty dozen Chrysler design revisions for the PS pump, brackets and pulley making standardizing the power steering components necessary and adding hydroboost a challenge to sort out in itself.

The 2007+ engines are 6.7L and the 6.7 is packaged differently yet from the 2003-2006 5.9's. The 6.7's use different injectors requiring more clearance to the inside of the valve cover and the engine is physically taller due to increased deck height for the larger displacement. The 6.7 emissions components absolutely will not fit in the 80 series engine compartment. The 6.7's use an electrically actuated throttle plate in the intake to facilitate EGR. That throttle assembly is right into the shock tower on the driver's side. The EGR valve would also sit above the hood.

A lot of the 2002 and down 6BT kit is designed to carry over to the commonrails, but there are enough differences that a distinctly different kit will be mandatory.

 

[maxamillion2345]

Happy to see this update. It's very clear you know much more about 5.9s.

 

[maxamillion2345]

Good info. With this being said and your experience with it would you recommend staying at 2002 and older? If you ever look into the 2003+ option are we talking years out if ever along with a higher cost to convert due to issues below? Would like to source a 5.9 first then the kit so looking for suggestions. Problem is I'm having is I have a 97' CE so what I have read so far the state of Colorado is requiring emissions to pass for either the motor or vehicle, whichever is newer. I assume since going to diesel it would be smarter to pass the emissions based on the newer Cummins/ Dodge spec? I really don't care for the 1998-2003 Cummins from what I read on them, so my options are more limited assuming it would benefit me to get a 97'6BT(I own a collectors addition and believe they were re-badged with the 40th late in the year and released) so this may be tough and one of the last 12 valve P pump motors were stopped in production in 98' so the number of them out there locally is limited. I might be over thinking this and have a lot more digging to do but just wondering.
Thanks

IMO if you're dismissing the 24 valve engines you don't know enough to begin this swap. Only ones to avoid are #53 blocks. I also think the common rail isbs are too much for the yota trans.

 

[69rambler]

The commonrail kit is open ended. There are variables I do not know the timeframe of. I would ballpark 6 months, but I think the reality is once it's completely figured out it will require a lot more durability testing and potentially de-tuning the engines to have success with 325 HP and 600 lb/ft in this platform. Initially the goal was for the kit to be all-inclusive, but once a clear outline of what was going to stay Toyota, what would be Cummins/Dodge and what would be manufactured by Diesel Adapters was defined there are simply too many differences with the Commonrails to do it all at the same time.

The Commonrails make serious power in stock form. They have torque limiting that works with the transmission computer to keep the transmissions alive in Dodges. I haven't delved into the possibility of interfacing the Cummins ECM with the Compushift, but I doubt it's possible without EFIlive and EFIlive doesn't work on the 03-04 or 05 Commonrail ECM platform, Only the '06+ engines can run EFIlive. With or without EFIlive we can mechanically restrict the peak boost of the engines a bit and the ECM will automatically restrict fueling.

Re: Emissions-

The older the engine, the less emissions stuff they will have. And yes you are correct that if you require an inspection for the engine swap to pass emissions testing or for a fuel type change in an emissions controlled area they may look for the emissions equipment the engine came with in the Dodge.

The last year of the 12 valve in a Dodge was 1998. In CA, the engines came with EGR as far back as 95/96 and atleast as far back as 96 they had catalytic converters. A non-CA 5.9 from a 97 or 98 would be the path of least resistance for you.

A problem with keeping all the emissions stuff intact is that it's rarely on the engines. EGR and cats are the first things removed from a new Dodge. Most states do not require any sort of diesel pickup emissions testing until 2007 model year.

The other problems with keeping the emissions system intact is the kits are not designed around keeping EGR and the fuel economy will suffer if you do leave EGR intact. The early Dodge cats should fit OK under the body if you have to, but the later ones and DPF are stretching the real estate.

The 98.5 to 2002 VP44 24 valves are not bad engines by any means. They are a transition between the mechanical and fully electronic commonrails. I like that they have have all the grunt of a 12 valve down low with power all the way to the top. A stock commonrail does not have that low end power.

 

[Atlas Suspension]

The end of this month was the tentative release date for the complete 6BT kit, but we will be a little past that while we wait for delivery of some outside sourced parts that go in the kits.

The first 5 kits will be sold to individuals I feel are experienced with similar work and who will get the install done in a reasonable timeframe (2-3 weekends or one solid week) and give feedback on the instructions and any stumbling points so anything that isn't perfectly clear is corrected on a small scale.

When these first 5 kits are shipped I will start a detailed information thread here with all the kit details, install pictures, videos and facts about the results.

The 6BT kit doesn't look much like what was installed in the Jonesy's Predator. There have been significant design changes since then. The kit is not a 6 month project and is not much more complicated then changing out the stock 1FZ, but there are certainly right and not so right ways to go about the process so detailed instructions need to be followed pretty close.

The answers to common questions we get about the kits are-

The kits fit 2002 and older Dodge Cummins engines only. The 93 and older engines will require some of the parts the 94-02 engines come with so they work with the kit.

The 89-93 engines will get the best fuel economy and are reasonably quiet.

The 94-98 P-pump engines will get 1-5 MPG less than the 89-93 engines, but the P-pump engines are a good choice if you are running veggie oil or plan to run lower gears than optimal (like 4.10's and 31" tires). The P-pump engines seem to handle 2000+ RPM cruising pretty good, they fuel better at the middle and top end. The P-pump engines are slightly louder than the 89-93 VE engines (they have a 1000 PSI higher injection pressure).

The 98-02 24V engines work with this kit as well. These engines are self contained electronic engines, but the overall packaging of the engines is the same as prior mechanical versions. The 98-02 engines are by far the loudest of all Cummins engines, possibly the loudest engines ever made. In stock form (without some kind of tuner) these engines get pretty poor mileage. With minor modifications these engines are very reliable and get good mileage.

Do not buy an industrial/medium duty 5.9 Cummins for this swap. You need one from a Dodge. The Dodge accessories are re-used and will cost some to source if your engine doesn't come with them. The non-Dodge engines are packaged differently- Different turbo location, different injection lines, even some of the timing covers are slightly different from Dodge versions causing fitment issues.

You do not need an entire Dodge truck, just the engine with AC, PS, Vacuum pump, alternator.

"Will it pass California inspection/emissions?"
According to California rules an OBDI FZJ80 will pass inspection/smog with a Dodge Cummins 5.9L engine installed with all of it's factory emissions components intact and a proper engine data plate. The OBDII 80's are a different story and we haven't tried it. Here in Oregon even a 4BT powered OBDI 80 series has passed Portland emissions with flying colors (the engine's actual emissions passed perfect).

"Does the stock transmission hold up?"
YES! The kit includes components specific to increasing the transmissions power handling ability. The A442 and A343 shift very positive and behave excellent behind Cummins power. The transmission is going to shift firmer at moderate and WOT. The TV cable used on these transmissions and the throttle linkage assembly engineered specifically for this application + the Compushift transmission controller is why this works so well. An upgraded billet converter is part of the basic kit. A multi-disc billet upgrade option will be available in the future for higher HP applications.

"I want to tow a 10K lb travel trailer with my 80 series so how do I get a kit coming?"
The intention of the kit is to make easily available an all around GREAT family SUV that runs economically on diesel fuel or alternative fuels. A 6BT, even a stock 160HP one will be a lot quicker than a 1FZ and get 50-100% better fuel mileage (like 18-22 MPG combined driving fuel economy depending on gearing, tires, and the year of the engine). The kit isn't promoted as increasing the towing capacity of an 80 series. It increases the driving range, drastically lowers the cost of long term maintenance compared to a 1FZ or Toyota diesel and it will put a smile on your face when you drive it.

"Does the weight/power of the engine tear up the frame, suspension, front axle, transmission, axles, etc?"
Your right foot is the single biggest factor here. A stock early 12 valve is a very docile engine. It's good choice if you are concerned about excess power. The engine will add about 300 pounds to the front of an 80. It will drop front springs about an inch. All the ones we've done have been with 2.5" heavy OME front springs and 35" tires. They drive well, the weight doesn't have a noticeable effect on handling. These are heavy vehicles. 300 pounds doesn't make much difference in a 6500 pound vehicle.

Do I need a lift? Not really, but you need 33-37" tires to get the gearing right with 4.10's. The 5.9 will drop the nose a little so you need to do something or the nose will sit a bit low.

"Can I just buy the transmission adapter?"
No, you can't and here is why- The problem with "custom" conversions is the variation in skill/giving a s***/budget of the guy doing it. Some are fantastic, incredible, perfect, but many are just functional and end up worth a fraction of their cost to assemble (Proffitts stuff for example). The primary drivers behind offering a complete kit are the peace of mind of a known end result, the potential for a much higher resale value as a result of using a very high quality, engineered, branded, supported kit and the reduction in tech support we will have to provide since everything is figured out, standardized, documented.

I'm miles away from being ready for this swap (except in my dreams….. ahhhhh, delightful), but out of sheer curiosity how hard would it be to stick an NV4500 in place of the factory automatic? There's a couple more miles per gallon there along with the smile factor. Hopefully this kit is around when the next round of upgrades comes, like a diesel swap.

A 5 speed 6BTJ80 would kind of be the perfect vehicle.

 

[Dirty Koala]

I love me 2000 24V cummins, only problem with these engines is the VP44 injection pump will commonly burn out...but this is usually always due to the weak factory fuel lift pump that feeds the VP44. When the lift pump starts to drop fuel delivery pressure, the VP doesn't have enough diesel flowing, and since the diesel is used to lube the VP, it burns up...ask me how I know. Simple fix is to get a quality FASS 150 or fuel labs water/fuel separator pump...plenty of flow.

Stuffing a 24V into my 80 is on my to do list.

 

[69rambler]

The cool parts about the FZJ80, and the reason why thousands of hours over several years and lots of money has gone into the 6BT80 kits is that you can retain the original auto transmission, cutting the scope of the project in 1/2 and get a great result.

Our retail business selling Cummins and Isuzu conversion parts was started to bring products to market that we developed and proved through doing several dozen paying conversions. I've done 80 series using GM and Dodge transmissions and the project is no small feat to make it an OE appearing and functioning result. After the last 100% custom 80 series I swore I would never do another 80 unless the original auto could be retained. An NV4500 kit could be possible, but it's not on the horizon yet. There's a 3.3 Cummins into 89-04 Taco/4Runner kit in the works and the Jeep people keep calling too.

 

[powermad]

Have you checked to see how many different calibration codes there are for the ECM?
Cummins usually has several different cal codes for the engine CPL.
Uprate, derate, different torque curves, split torque, etc.
I haven't messed with the ISB but the ISM and ISX have a bunch to choose from.
Cummins charges my shop $75 for a new cal code.

 

[Mr Cimarron]

I'm miles away from being ready for this swap (except in my dreams….. ahhhhh, delightful), but out of sheer curiosity how hard would it be to stick an NV4500 in place of the factory automatic? There's a couple more miles per gallon there along with the smile factor. Hopefully this kit is around when the next round of upgrades comes, like a diesel swap.

A 5 speed 6BTJ80 would kind of be the perfect vehicle.

Mine should be finished in a couple months.

 

[hotwod]

So is this adapter set NEVER being released? I haven't heard anything in months. Kinda looking like its not gonna happen

 

[hotwod]

Got the call from Dustin!!! Yes!!!

 

[hotwod]

Got the call from Dustin!!! Yes!!!

 

[Razor One]

I would like a PM when the kit is good to go. Thanks.

 

[cnorm5623]

Yea I got the first parts of the kit from Dustin last week. I am hoping to start on it this week and get my motor and tanny pulled out so I can send him my torque converter and wiring harness for re configuring.

 

[Razor One]

Maybe I missed it but is the wiring going to be plug and play?

 

[cnorm5623]

it is suppose to all be plug and play! i will keep everyone up to date with my project to see how it goes.

 

[Razor One]

Guess I should probably start looking for donor engines, then.

 

[VuickB6]

I would never try a swap like this on my own but having a kit that makes it plug and play is something that I would definitely do.


Unless I missed it, are there any mileage numbers yet?

 

[Razor One]

bump!

can we get an update?