What do i gain with 35" over 33" tires?

[jaymar]

but -- what is it? -- 12% of 80s left the showroom floor with lockers. smokingrocks,

Can't swear it's accurate, but the figure I've seen is 7% factory lockers, option starting with the '93. Center lock for '93+ is already there, but the switch is missing.

 

[jaymar]

This is the kind of stuff i was interested to here. I wanted to know how much of difference the 35s help with the things you mentioned in the end of your post. But i will have the option of rear swing out. So i guess i am saying rear bumper before re gear for me. I just have to decide between tried and true 4x4 labs or the work of art Mike at Bump It Off Road sells.

Depends on what you want to do. Hardcore overlanders (for example) rarely go over 33s, and fat tires are nearly always more hindrance than help, outside of snow/sand/some types of mud. As to swingouts, check out Cruisin Offroad as well; very beefy, no frame mods needed.

 

[WyoOtto]

Agree, as long as the 37" rigs are being charitable, and/or don't know exploit the capability of their rigs.

Having spent some time dragging these around, we now refer to them as trailers with air conditioning. Note the strap attached on a downhill! I guess, if you consider dragging the same as wheeling, then this is just as capable as the 37" Cruiser it's attached to? It went the same place right? Being tied to it, really didn't have much choice in the matter!

Couldn't find a cruiser on 33's to use as an example? Definitely an apples to apples comparison (sarcasm intended). For the sake of posterity, I'll state that only once in 13 years of wheeling Toyotas has a rig with larger tires than mine had to pull me over an obstacle (not that I couldn't winch over it). It happened to be a buggy so I don't feel too bad about it. On the other hand, I've recovered vehicles with larger tires than those on my rig because they apparently rely to heavily on their rig and not on their own driving skills. Most notable was a redirected winch pull to flop a rig back to greasy-side down because with its lift and 38" meats its COG was too high for the obstacle. I on the other hand with a 2.5" lift and 33" tires had no issue with the obstacle.

 

[ChaseTruck]

5 pages for 2 inches differences in nominal tire size, 1 inch difference in ride height - good going.
Ok, let's subtract 1 page for the locker distraction. Still. What's next - fuel mileage?

 

[Dragos80]

5 pages for 2 inches differences in nominal tire size, 1 inch difference in ride height - good going.
Ok, let's subtract 1 page for the locker distraction. Still. What's next - fuel mileage?

Women talk a lifetime about a 1 inch difference.

 

[rc51kid]

Sounds like your priority is highway, looks and interior space? The highway is where you pay for your off road choices. Some users think of wheeling as cross country highway trip, with a few miles of wheeling, maybe every few years, others wheel often, like weekly or some of us more. For highway use stock tires will perform the best, off road, the the biggest tire that can be fitted will work the best. If use is mainly highway, likely best to build for that and deal with the occasional off road? But really, for that, there are likely better performing vehicle choices?

As to my priorities, Yes, no and kind of. I do care about highway but only to some extent. I want need it to feel safe and stable at 65-70. I dont want to fight it all day long on a 2100 mile drive that i make a few times a year out to Wyoming. But i dont care about road noise, comfort or having to go a little slower on the highway. I dont care about looks. My comment about hating seeing the tire hang down was more because of how low it is and how it bad it would obviously hang up on a trail. To go down the highway like i am right now it is just fine. But i think i forgot just how low it hangs. About interior room, that is only important to me occasionally. But i am really flexible about that. I can pack light if needed and the truck has a ton off room in it with he sleeping platform and roof rack. But i am heading to Wyoming for 5 months so naturally i bring a lot of crap. But overall interior space is not that critical which is why 90% of the time i do fine having the spare inside the truck.

The off road capability is important to me. Honestly that is why i own the truck. To get to trail heads for camping, hiking, MTB and exploring the world. I love going places that are less accessible to others. So i enjoy the "road less traveled". I enjoy a challenging trail. But that being said i am often out alone and in remote areas. So i am not interested in going too nuts with thing. To be honest as the truck is with 285/75/16, lockers, sliders,skid plate and M12000 it takes me where i want to go if i work at it. But i do have to beat on things some times. I am sure the larger wheels would make things easier.
I get off road every chance i can. Sometimes that is often and other times it is several months between. To me it is more about being outside someplace beautiful away from other people in remote areas than going to the commercial ORV park and conquering the black diamond trails. To each their own but that is what i enjoy.

 

[greentruck]

Just for the record, because some seem to have read into this stuff that's just not there, I would never claim that 33s will go the same places 37s will or that lockers are useless. I simply noted they're not necessary to traverse the vast majority of trails in Colorado in my experience. Can you find trails where they're needed? Sure. I can go a mile from here in the Midwest and get stuck in some field where it wouldn't matter how big your tires are or that you're triple locked. I know about plenty of places to do that in Colorado, with generally less mud and more rocks. I really don't travel in order to pull winch line. Or to stack rocks. And wheelspin is a big no-no in my book for lots of reasons, but mainly because I've always driven manuals and that's just not done.

And that's all before I owned an 80.

One of the things I like about 'wheeling the mountains is there is almost always multiple lines. Take your choice. Sure, the ones the require 37s are obvious enough. Maybe you've not been looking for the ones that are fine on 33s? But they're usually there. And so are the ones where 35s make it easy.

Some folks play this game as based on equipment. If yours is bigger, it MUST be better. And it likely is, in the sense that numbers games always seem to have just one answer. But the world is almost always more complicated that that. You shouldn't need a pat on the back from me if you go places that really need that anyway.

Having always driven what must be seen in the eyes of some as inferior equipment, I've had to play offroading as a thinking man's (and in a few cases, women's) game. And the last thing you want to do is to be hard on the truck. Do that and you just get farther behind the curve.

Bigger, better gear makes this easier, but make it too easy and most of the fun is gone in my book. Trashing the truck also makes things no fun at all. And I make absolutely no pretense that there are trails you won't see me on. I bought the 80 to make things a little easier (which was easy enough to accomplish stepping up from Isuzus). Sure, I could make it so I could snooze my way along, but I can be bored at home. Instead, I prefer perfectly adequate gear and a nice challenge every day when I'm on the trail. At the end of it, I still have a 1,000 mile trip home and no trailer to park the rig on to haul it there nor a budget to fix breaking anything big. For those that do enjoy a tidy tire and upgrade budget, go for it. I'll likely be right behind most places, a little slower, but still enjoying my vacation. A few places you may be on your own, enjoy that and be careful.

 

[greentruck]

Can't swear it's accurate, but the figure I've seen is 7% factory lockers, option starting with the '93. Center lock for '93+ is already there, but the switch is missing.

Could be. Your memory is likely better than mine. If so, it would just make a little more ridiculous the implication that if you're not locked, you should feel inadequate about your equipment in the offroad showerroom. The vast majority of LandCruisers ever made don't have lockers. I've heard no collective moan of "can't get there."

Sure, lockers are spiffy, but necessary? That's a very relative thing. I'd take them over bigger tires, though.

Done the magic button and 7 pin mod

 

[Tools R Us]

As to my priorities, Yes, no and kind of. I do care about highway but only to some extent. I want need it to feel safe and stable at 65-70. ...
The off road capability is important to me. Honestly that is why i own the truck. ... I enjoy a challenging trail. ...

That is what you need to look at, what are your priorities and build the rig to them. The 80 is not and never will be a great highway cruiser. That said, it is serviceable, mine has 37", stock gears, gets me there with less beating than any of the previous wheeling rigs that I have had.

It also will never be a great rock crawler, but properly setup, can be fun doing rock play in station wagons. They do pretty well for heavy pigs.

IMHO, the 80 is the Swiss army knife of wheelers, does a lot of things well, but nothing really great. This is not a slam, more like a big complement, a pretty difficult thing to do and an easy thing to mess up. By attempting to make it great at something it's not, it easy to mess up the other good things about it.

 

[Tools R Us]

Could be. Your memory is likely better than mine. If so, it would just make a little more ridiculous the implication that if you're not locked, you should feel inadequate about your equipment in the offroad showerroom. The vast majority of LandCruisers ever made don't have lockers. I've heard no collective moan of "can't get there."

Most Cruisers have never been wheeled and weren't bought for that use.

Sure, lockers are spiffy, but necessary? That's a very relative thing. I'd take them over bigger tires, though.

Done the magic button and 7 pin mod

It could be argued that 4x4 isn't necessary, my first wheeler was a VW Baja, mostly one wheel drive. Still occasionally wheel with one, he manages to do most of the popular named trails, so, I guess just as capable as a locked cruiser on 37" around here?

The question wasn't about any of this, it was; what do I gain from bigger tires, the answer is: In most cases, all other things the same, the rig will ultimately be more capable off road. Whether you are comfortable driving to that level is irrelevant.

 

[greentruck]

Most Cruisers have never been wheeled and weren't bought for that use.



It could be argued that 4x4 isn't necessary, my first wheeler was a VW Baja, mostly one wheel drive. Still occasionally wheel with one, he manages to do most of the popular named trails, so, I guess just as capable as a locked cruiser on 37" around here?

The question wasn't about any of this, it was; what do I gain from bigger tires, the answer is: In most cases, all other things the same, the rig will ultimately be more capable off road. Whether you are comfortable driving to that level is irrelevant.

Kevin,
Most LandCruisers in the US have never been wheeled. Elsewhere, that's a bit different matter. And that ignores the fact that's what they are designed to do.

I certainly agree on the VW thing, in fact if you read back, that's where I started off road, once I got off the farm...

I think the comfort factor in driving at the level of 37" is probably easier to find than the comfort level of those who seem to fear driving on 33s will hold them back from something. That's a feeling I've never had, I guess because I've spent so much time rolling on 31" tires. Seems to me that running 33's has already gained me a couple of inches from where I was already pretty comfortable, rather like the premise of the original post here, but I'd bet the 2" between 31 and 33 is a greater advantage than the the difference between 33s and 35s. Because all my experience in Colorado has been on 31s or lesser tires, as I haven't got the 80 there yet. Maybe someone will say I'm arguing that 31s will get you anyplace 37s will? Not at all. It's the same premise as before. 31s will get you maybe to 98% of Colorado?

Reading back through this, everyone does seem to agree that running a bigger tire is easier. I agree that whether that's another level is probably irrelevant, because I doubt there's any special revelations other than that most of the time one doesn't have to choose the line with quite so critical an eye. No special revelations there. Comes with the territory. Most of the time a bigger tire results in an easier drive. Every once in awhile, the difference in capability actually makes a difference in ultimate performance.

 

[Astr0y]

You will feel a huge difference in snow off-roading. When you deflate the tires the weight of the car will spread a cross a bigger surface, allowing the vehicle to float better. I have 38" tires myself (hdj80, diesel) and about 30%-40% of my travelling is in snow.

About the mpg... With bigger tires and unchanged differentials comes higher gearing, allowing the car to drive faster at lower rpms, in my experience resulting in similar mpg to the original tire size. But a loss of power also, but I "fixed" that with an intercooler and a 3" exhaust.

 

[rc51kid]

Tools, Swiss Army knife is exactly what i want. Serviceable is all i need on the highway and i am happy with that. If i wanted to run 90 mph all day on the highway i would buy a Suburban, If i wanted a dedicated trail rig i probably would go with a little Samurai.

But i think the 80 is the perfect compromise. I can lode it up to hold enough crap for months on end, drive cross country in relative comfort while sleeping in it on my sleeping platform and have a very capable 4wd system when i get where i am going.

 

[greentruck]

You will feel a huge difference in snow off-roading. When you deflate the tires the weight of the car will spread a cross a bigger surface, allowing the vehicle to float better. I have 38" tires myself (hdj80, diesel) and about 30%-40% of my travelling is in snow.

SNIP

Undoubtedly true. But living in Iceland is rather like living near the trailhead in Colorado. If that's where you'll be spending most of your time playing, then specialization has its rewards. The 80 is, as Kevin noted, very adaptable. But in adapting, the changes do narrow the ideal range of conditions for the truck to operate in. I'd have to have a new garage for starters if the truck and I were in Iceland. And it might be a problem if you need to park in the big city. But these are the sorts of tradeoffs that we make when we make decisions on equipment. You push the truck in one direction, it's a little less versatile in other directions. No shame in that game, either, just as there isn't in running 33s, it just is what it is.

Yes, on some trail somewhere, I may have to turn around by not going larger, where a larger tire would get me through. That's happened to me twice on the same trail, Holy Cross City. Other than that, I can't think of any place I've already been on 31s that I won't be able to get to with 33s on an 80.

 

[SmokingRocks]

I doubt there's any special revelations other than that most of the time one doesn't have to choose the line with quite so critical an eye. No special revelations there.

I think we agree on more than you might think. But the above quote is what I take issue with. I like to run harder trails with my 35's and still have to pick my line carefully. Now I totally get that you threw in the 'most of the time' equalizer, but again you are speculating since you haven't owned 35's. Everyone I've met who upsized to 35's loved it. Perhaps try a set and report back?

Of course you have to pick different lines for different tires, 29's, 31's to 33's all take different approaches. Moving from 33's to 35's is no different nor any more inferior than transitioning from stock 29's to 33's. Believe it or not you did take a performance hit going to 33's as well.

Can you bash, spin and drag yourself up most trails in CO on 33's or even 31's? Sure. Is that damaging to your gear, rig and environment? yea.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Most locked 80's on 35's are good on 4 rated trails <link At that point what becomes the most limiting factory on 4rated and above trail?
Lift
Tires
Traction device
Stereo
Cup holder
Given this is a 'What do i gain with 35" over 33" tires' thread Im thinking its not tires.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
I think the comfort factor in driving at the level of 37" is probably easier to find than the comfort level of those who seem to fear driving on 33s will hold them back from something. That's a feeling I've never had, I guess because I've spent so much time rolling on 31" tires. ...

I think,, feel,, whatever, maybe a little different than actual experience?

... Because all my experience in Colorado has been on 31s or lesser tires, as I haven't got the 80 there yet. Maybe someone will say I'm arguing that 31s will get you anyplace 37s will? Not at all. It's the same premise as before. 31s will get you maybe to 98% of Colorado? ...

A build for a handful of trails in Colorado, what once a decade or so, is pretty easy? Others may want more versatility than that? If 31" worked so well for you, why did you step up to 33"? Stock sized tires would have worked fine?

 

[Tools R Us]

Tools, Swiss Army knife is exactly what i want. Serviceable is all i need on the highway and i am happy with that. If i wanted to run 90 mph all day on the highway i would buy a Suburban, If i wanted a dedicated trail rig i probably would go with a little Samurai.

But i think the 80 is the perfect compromise. I can lode it up to hold enough crap for months on end, drive cross country in relative comfort while sleeping in it on my sleeping platform and have a very capable 4wd system when i get where i am going.

Agree, also, for a wheeler they hold a lot of gear. We often have generator, jackhammers, trail signing stuff, McCleods, shovels, etc, on board. Get to the work site and start unloading, the jeep guys are like, WTF!

 

[greentruck]

I think we agree on more than you might think. But the above quote is what I take issue with. I like to run harder trails with my 35's and still have to pick my line carefully. Now I totally get that you threw in the 'most of the time' equalizer, but again you are speculating since you haven't owned 35's. Everyone I've met who upsized to 35's loved it. Perhaps try a set and report back?

Remember back when I said the truck won't fit the garage?
It still won't.

I also plan on trailering most of our gear, since we sleep in the truck. Assuming we had a bigger garage to put the truck in, now I'm looking at a bill for an unobtanium supercharger, an engine conversion, whatever on 35s.

Does lack of experience make one incapable of offering a useful opinion about 35s? it might...if it made things more difficult. I'd have no way to judge or compare to "more difficult." Since we all agree it would be easier, I don't think easy is going to stymie me at all. There's nothing mystical about easier.

I'm certain I took a performance hit going to 33s, because they went onto steel wheels when I bought them. But I was surprised at how imperceptible it was. At 10,000' that might be a different matter. But I've been on all these trails in a 55, so I can live with slow.

As I also observed earlier, my technique doesn't tolerate abusing the equipment or wheelspin. In fact, to be successful in running trails on smaller tires, you need to avoid that sort of careless driving entirely. Having the auto worries me on that score -- a lot more than tire size or lack of lockers. Which points out once again, this argument really isn't about a single number settling things. It also depends on many other factors, only a few of which involve equipment.

Yes, drivers of equal experience will find that the one on the larger tires can generally go farther, easier on trails that REQUIRE the need for that equipment. Those trails have been few and far between in Colorado IME. I do know where to find them. Those that want to run them need to be equipped to handle them. Not once have I argued that larger tires don't have merit. They do, but it doesn't matter until the trails exceed the capabilities of lesser tires. Hang around awhile at the summit and you'll see all kinds of rigs show up. In my case, a Subaru atop Mosquito Pass was the most surprising. But I've seen a Chevette at the Alpine Tunnel (makes sense, it's a RR grade, even though rough.) Then there was the (hopefully) rental Olds 4-door on Tincup Pass. Yep, those dudes were out of it entirely, bashing that sucker bad. You meet all kinds on the trail.

That's why to me a 2" difference in tire size means little. Most of the time, my experience adds inches to my effective tire diameter. That's also why I noted that 4" would be a bigger difference, once that has factors that skill alone can't overcome. I'm not marking that up against anyone here. I'm sure most of us are skilled drivers and if your tires are bigger, you might get farther on those few trails where that difference counts. But mostly it doesn't matter. A LandCruiser on 33s, heck even 31s, will beat just about any other vehicles encountered. I'm not in competition with all those other brands, and even less with fellow LC fans. But I also see no need to join in the chorus that you're not really living until you're rolling on 35s or bigger.

Which reminds of another reason 33s sound pretty good for my needs. The taller the tire, the tippier the truck. If there's any thing that limits things in my mind in getting over any trail, it's side angles. I know what I'm comfortable with, but passengers can be somewhat more fearful. Once the shiny side is no longer UP, then you've got problems, no mater how tall your rubber is.

 

[SmokingRocks]

Does lack of experience make one incapable of offering a useful opinion about 35s?

Not at all, we all understand your opinion, including me. Hell you've rehashed it enough.
When seeming half of the post in a thread about 35's are novel sized post from the same member (who has never had 35's) reiterating the same points over and over again it gets old.

Perhaps it's just me. So I'll shut up now.