"VSC" Caused me to total my LC-100

[Topoguide]

??
are you talking about the last micromillimeter of motion? cuz if not, I'm stopping my vehicle all the time without locking the brakes...

Right... OK so it's a conceptual design flaw that has been tweaked over the different generations. It is programmed to allow lock up at some point... the new Raptor changes that lock up point to be at a higher speed to allow better braking response in off road conditions, very exciting news.

 

[ToyotaDon]

I think were getting close to figuring out how to wire in a switch for the VSC looking through some posts. Has anyone gotten any closer to actually trying this? I am completely electricly inept.

I want to try to get the VSC switch from the early 2000's GS and see if this will work. I just have not had the time. Along with the HID conversion, it is at the top of the list.

If you need more tech support when you go to do this, let me know.

I'd like to know if someone would be willing to cut that wire from the CDL Detection switch to the VSC module and see if that turns VSC off without affecting anything else. You could cut the wire, if it works, install the switch/relay and call it good. If it doesn't work, repair the wire and take a different tack.

I could also try to put some kind of instructions or kit together if we find this will work.

BTW, on connecting TC to CG at the Data Connector, this puts several systems into diagnostic mode, so it would likely affect ABS, etc.

 

[96r50]

That adjustable ABS Programming in the new Raptor is schaweet! If only that thing was built by Toyota I'd have one already. Come on Toyota, DO ONE WITH THE TUNDRA!

The new 4Runner has something along those lines:

Multi-Terrain ABS:
Standard on Trail Edition, a new Multi-Terrain Anti-Lock Brake System enhances system performance to the driving surface—more precisely tailoring the ABS slip rate to give greater control during deceleration.

 

[EdsCruisin]

This thread has truly piqued my interest, since I have two DD's with this system. We are scheduled to get a foot of snow tomorrow, so I am definitely going to test these theories first-hand in a nearby parking lot. I have a Volvo XCountry too that I let my 17 yr old daughter drive. Last year I had her take it to a parking lot in the snow and put it into some power slide situations to get the "feel" for how to correct. Volvo is all electronic too, but it still permitted her to steer out of the slide. Of course I recommend adding throttle to the corrective action. Letting the vehicle continue into the guardrail or ditch is not an option - point where you want to go, take your foot off the brake, use the gas and go for it.

More often than not brakes are what cause the problems. A lot of other drivers do not know to NOT pump their ABS brakes and then they panic and stomp the pedal through the floor, as they ride their newfound sled into something they wanted to miss, without any control whatsoever. Will they steer out of the path of collision? Nope, the wheels already lost traction and besides, they already peed themselves - there is no logic left in their head, until the airbag or steering wheel knocks some sense back in. :whoops:

Don't forget that wet snow impacted below the tire will counter ABS - The system will rapidly slow the wheel, but if in the process the weight of the truck compresses snow under the tire as it comes to a near stop, the tire will stop and the snow can break loose from the road and continue to slide, causing an acceleration and skid, just like on wet leaves. Once your wheels stopped turning you have no control (unless truly stopped).

Somebody mentioned turning airbags off in a prior thread. That's not new by any means, nor illegal. GM and Mopar have had switches for the passenger airbags right on the dash for many years. You can buy aftermarket switches too.

 

[Alaskan_IB]

EdCruisin...If you do a test on VSC do it on a striaght stretch of road in a wide area, then simulate a corner with the guardrail on your left. So make a right hand turn like your going to corner and do it with speeds of 50 mph at least then you will see how it reacts.

With my incident when the slide started it wasnt a big deal until brakes were applied. In Alaska anyway we are always either taught or learn very rapidly that brakes and snow/ice dont mix. You can use them but in moderation and only in certain conditions. So when mine went into full correction mode with brakes on it put me into a very fast slide into the guardrail. This was on a right hand corner of course.

Robert

 

[04UZJ100]

EdCruisin...If you do a test on VSC do it on a striaght stretch of road in a wide area, then simulate a corner with the guardrail on your left. So make a right hand turn like your going to corner and do it with speeds of 50 mph at least then you will see how it reacts.

With my incident when the slide started it wasnt a big deal until brakes were applied. In Alaska anyway we are always either taught or learn very rapidly that brakes and snow/ice dont mix. You can use them but in moderation and only in certain conditions. So when mine went into full correction mode with brakes on it put me into a very fast slide into the guardrail. This was on a right hand corner of course.

Robert

Why the hell would you take a corner at 50mph. This sounds more and more like a driver who overdrove not knowing the ability of his car, underestimated the conditions, or was flat out stupid.

 

[1loudLX]

highway "bend"

 

[Alaskan_IB]

Why the hell would you take a corner at 50mph. This sounds more and more like a driver who overdrove not knowing the ability of his car, underestimated the conditions, or was flat out stupid.

Wow way to slam someone without any factual information.
This wasnt a sharp corner just a gradual one and I might also add I routinly dirve 70+ miles an hour in snow and ice so going 50 is slow as hell for me on a corner. We are used to driving on these roads as much as your "concrete queen" driving is used to dry pavement. But hey thats just someone who knows how to drive in snow and ice so please dont call someone stupid.

I am not wanting to start any kind of banter but just wanted to set you straight is all. Again this was just for simulation sake so people can get used to VSC taking over and how to properly react to it. Some who are used to correcting will see how this will put you into a slide in the direction of your correction.

Robert

 

[BROKEROB1]

We had 15" of snow here in Southern PA today (which is nothing compared to the 5+ ft you have had in AK recently). I drove lots today (all day) and 50 mph with any snow or ice was just too fast. This was hard pack/freshly plowed snow, traveling on a straight highway. The truck felt very planted and solid with no sliding going about 40 mph but as soon as I exceeded 45 mph, I became aware of the speed.... the truck didn't feel unstable and I could have gone faster, but I was just uncomfortable going faster. I had the CDL locked and my AHC on the high setting, riding on good treaded Toto Open Country AT's.

I was also monkeying with the VSC system, in a large empty parking lot/college campus. I was surprisingly impressed with the system... it is pretty incredible! Really, the name of the game is to go slow and be in control. The second I started to really push it around corners, the VSC would kick in and I would hold the wheel and keep going into the turn. I think the system could get someone out of a jam, but I could also see the problem when I reacted in a "traditional" way.

I have to say, I was thankful for this thread. It reminded me all day to GO SLOW (even when I was tempted to pass someone going REALLY slow)!

PS I LOVED locking the center and doing major power slides and donuts... and could not do that on my 80!

 

[re_guderian]

...PS I LOVED locking the center and doing major power slides and donuts... and could not do that on my 80!

well, you could've with a diff lock switch and a Pin 7 Mod...

 

[CSG1]

...I routinly dirve 70+ miles an hour in snow and ice so going 50 is slow as hell for me on a corner. We are used to driving on these roads as much as your "concrete queen" driving is used to dry pavement. But hey thats just someone who knows how to drive in snow and ice...

You had me right up until this comment. Routinely driving 70+ MPH in snow and ice tells me you are not the sort of driver I want to be anywhere near around on the road. Glad you're such a competent driver to push physics to the extreme but it sounds like you're a danger on the road, sorry.

 

[Alaskan_IB]

No offense taken, we have very long and straight roads up here between towns which allows for this.

I live six hours away from Anchorage which is pretty straight until you get 200 miles or so into the trip. I make this trip every two weeks too and from Anchorage and have driven the Ice truckers roads you see on TV for the last 10 years so I am more accustomed to it than I am dry pavement.

 

[BROKEROB1]

did this... just wasn't the same.... not sure why?

well, you could've with a diff lock switch and a Pin 7 Mod...

 

[bwbski26]

Alaska,
What tires do you run?
I have dunlop SJ5's which are a snow and ice tire, and i feel i can take corners at 50 no prob. But i have learned to drive with the VSC. Or if i am CDL locked, i also know how to drive, and pull the car through the corner, and correct the slide by turning in.

 

[Alaskan_IB]

I run cooper Discoverer M+S which is a softer rubber and does great in our weather up here.....construction season and winter.

 

[EdsCruisin]

Well, we got our 2 ft of snow Saturday and since we only get this every 5 years or so, I was able to test the 100 and must say it was great. I didn't get a chance to do a 50 mph turn with the VSC on because this is a cruiser and it doesn't accelerate like a porche in a mall parking lot. But I did put about a 100 miles on each day this weekend trying both c-diff locked and VSC on. I prefer the c-diff locked. Much more drifting fun on short turns. The best the VSC did to me was beep annoyingly on short turns, but I was going too slow for a violent opposition to my route.

I own an assisted living and had to get staff to and from work all weekend. Some tried to drive, so I had to dig them out of drifts too. I pulled the 100 into 3 ft of plowed snow, got out and dug out another car and then jumped back in and drove right out without spinning. This truck is a tank.

On the highway I was able to do greater than 50 with ease, even with two tires on one side going into unplowed snow. I-95 was white hard pack for a couple lanes. If I held the steering wheel straight and lightened up on the gas a little it tracked straight on through with no hint of swerving, braking, etc. I can see how this truck can handle 70 mph on snow covered highway. The biggest limitation was the low visibility of the blizzard conditions Saturday.

FYI, I am running 285 Revos with about 10,000 miles on them. I also used to have a Jeep Wrangler with BFG's that was unstoppable in the snow. I would say the 100 matched the Jeep in capability, but is much more comfortable doing it.

 

[1loudLX]

VSC Disable on Pre 2008 4Runners - Toyota 120 Platforms Forum

got the link from a GX owner that has the switch installed. he's "lexwoody" on here.

 

[lexwoody]

I have an 04 Lexus GX470. As most of you guys will know that the GX is full time 4WD system with VSC, A-Trac, and Trac. I played with my GX up in Reno and learned my truck and its systems.

Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) The VSC system electronically monitors speed and direction, and compares the vehicle's direction of travel with the driver's steering, acceleration and braking inputs. VSC can help compensate for loss of traction which can cause skids. It utilizes some components shared with the Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) and an electronically controlled engine throttle as well as a dedicated computer and sensors providing information to the VSC system. These include a yaw rate sensor, a G-sensor and a steering angle sensor. When VSC is active, a warning beep tone and instrument panel warning light indicate that the system is functioning. In many cases, VSC reacts well before the driver is aware of a loss of traction. As with other safety technologies, such as anti-lock brakes, it is important to drive safely, since Vehicle Stability Control cannot defy the laws of physics, nor can it provide more traction than exists in a given condition.

Active TRAC (A-TRAC) Using sensors at all four wheels to monitor a loss of traction, Active TRAC employs brake and throttle control to reduce wheelspin and transfer torque to the wheel with the most traction.

Traction Control (TRAC) The sophisticated Toyota system is an all-speed design that utilizes both brake and engine throttle control. TRAC helps to avoid slippage of the driving wheels by slightly applying the brake on a slipping drive wheel and reducing the throttle to maintain traction according to the road surface conditions. The system eliminates the need for a subtle accelerator pedal operation and helps ensure vehicle control when starting or accelerating on slippery roads.

 

[EdsCruisin]

I have an 04 Lexus GX470. As most of you guys will know that the GX is full time 4WD system with VSC, A-Trac, and Trac. I played with my GX up in Reno and learned my truck and its systems.

Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) The VSC system electronically monitors speed and direction, and compares the vehicle's direction of travel with the driver's steering, acceleration and braking inputs. VSC can help compensate for loss of traction which can cause skids. It utilizes some components shared with the Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) and an electronically controlled engine throttle as well as a dedicated computer and sensors providing information to the VSC system. These include a yaw rate sensor, a G-sensor and a steering angle sensor. When VSC is active, a warning beep tone and instrument panel warning light indicate that the system is functioning. In many cases, VSC reacts well before the driver is aware of a loss of traction. As with other safety technologies, such as anti-lock brakes, it is important to drive safely, since Vehicle Stability Control cannot defy the laws of physics, nor can it provide more traction than exists in a given condition.

Active TRAC (A-TRAC) Using sensors at all four wheels to monitor a loss of traction, Active TRAC employs brake and throttle control to reduce wheelspin and transfer torque to the wheel with the most traction.

Traction Control (TRAC) The sophisticated Toyota system is an all-speed design that utilizes both brake and engine throttle control. TRAC helps to avoid slippage of the driving wheels by slightly applying the brake on a slipping drive wheel and reducing the throttle to maintain traction according to the road surface conditions. The system eliminates the need for a subtle accelerator pedal operation and helps ensure vehicle control when starting or accelerating on slippery roads.

MERRY CHRISTMAS! - like a couple others here, I am Jewish and tend to have little to do on December 25th, except crave Chinese food.

and thanks for that explanation. It helps me understand it much better. I did not experience the oversteer issue that the OP had because the rest of the sensors were not detecting that kind of movement. I did have the Active TRAC alarm come on when turning a corner too fast, but only with the diff lock off.

So by your explanation, if you keep the vehicle in a relatively straight trajectory, the systems will help you stay that way without human inputs. But if you do an exit ramp too fast, it can overcompensate, due to the steering input. All in all, the computers are operating at a rate that humans cannot compete with and if we drive "carefully" the computers will help the truck make us look like even better drivers

 

[CSG1]

I took my Lexus LC up in the snow a few days ago to see how it would do. Just driving some of the backroads we have here. Left it in 4 hi and drove normally. CDL unlocked. The alarm came on two or three times over about 30 miles a snowy and icy roads but the truck was totally predictable and did fine. The alarm was somewhat disconcerting but it reminded me to back off the throttle.

BTW, Ed, I'm Jewish too. Shabbat Shalom!